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CAN WE SURVIVE WITHOUT FAITH?

 
sukk349
 
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sukk349
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01 December 2016 02:01
 

Religious beliefs pretend you believe in something you can not or do not know if that bear on what is.Gclub

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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01 December 2016 05:01
 
Shaikh Raisuddin - 04 May 2015 12:32 PM

# We do not demand certificate from parents to believe them as parents

# We do not demand a certificate of life to plan for tomorrow.

# We do not demand certificate of loyalty to love or to befriend with someone.


Do you actually think those examples of “faith” are anything like religious faith to any depth at all?

Do you have to have the same kind of faith to believe parents exist, that tomorrow will come, or that a good friend is loyal as you do to believe that an alleged god for which there’s absolutely zero evidence and that the very concept of which strains credulity and even coherence?

The real question here is how the OP type comparisons are a such popular religious/theistic apologetics when on merit it’s pretty amazing they seem reasonable to anyone at all.

 
 
Lausten
 
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Lausten
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01 December 2016 11:31
 

I see this thread is a bit old, but, what the hell does this mean?

My girlfriend couldn’t understand why I was nonreactive to her efforts to control me or our relationship and then one day she understood that to draw close to the moment facilitated a better relationship between she and I.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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09 December 2016 04:11
 
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.


Faith is a decision to act or behave based on something for which there is no evidence.

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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09 December 2016 05:38
 
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 04:11 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.


It kind of is for those who mistake presumption for confidence, or who just need to pretend it is. It’s the closest we can get to actual confidence regarding matters of faith at least. I imagine the distinction is easily confused, particularly when faith is involved, so it may even be arguable they’re functionally the same in at least some cases.

None of that changes the fact that it’s not good to have much “confidence” in presumptions. It’s perfectly okay to make presumptions of course, if needed, as long as you’re not self-deceptive about them so you can act as if you’re confident in them. That can be good under some circumstances as well (in mind—having to cross a sketchy section of floor to escape a fire), but it’s best in that case to be very aware that you’re pretending so you’re not surprised but rather as prepared as you can be to deal with disappointment.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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09 December 2016 08:02
 
SkepticX - 09 December 2016 05:38 AM
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 04:11 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.


It kind of is for those who mistake presumption for confidence, or who just need to pretend it is.

“Pretend” is the key word.

This changes the meaning of the opening post to
“Can we survive without “pretending”.

 
SkepticX
 
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09 December 2016 08:23
 
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 08:02 AM
SkepticX - 09 December 2016 05:38 AM
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 04:11 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.

It kind of is for those who mistake presumption for confidence, or who just need to pretend it is.

“Pretend” is the key word.

This changes the meaning of the opening post to
“Can we survive without “pretending”.


Basically ... yeah.

It’s kind of like using the term “supernatural” to make the notion of magic more credible and reasonable to moderin types.

 
 
Lausten
 
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Lausten
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12 December 2016 06:56
 
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 04:11 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.


Faith is a decision to act or behave based on something for which there is no evidence.

To be fair, I think it is a decision based on INSUFFICIENT evidence. We all do this every day. Hume could not solve the problem of skepticism. If you are skeptical of everything, you are just as paralyzed as the person who believes they aren’t in control and depend on a God that can’t be understood. We all go about our mundane lives, making decisions about bacon or no bacon, until the building is on fire. If we are skeptical of the fire alarm, we could end up dead, so we put our faith in the system and dutifully walk to the meeting point where our names are checked off.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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12 December 2016 10:59
 
Lausten - 12 December 2016 06:56 AM
jdrnd - 09 December 2016 04:11 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 13 May 2015 11:36 PM

Faith is another name of confidence.

NO it is not.

Faith is a decision to act or behave based on something for which there is no evidence.

To be fair, I think it is a decision based on INSUFFICIENT evidence.

Unless we’re talking about God of course. In any case the faith of religion though, there’s a world of difference between that and the kind of “faith” we exercise when flipping a light switch and in various day-to-day activities and such. For one thing, if a light bulb fails on us our worldview isn’t challenged-we go get another bulb, screw it in and drive on as if it were entirely normal ... because it is. Same for the other daily practices of “faith” that religious apologists like to argue make religious faith just as reasonable. That’s quite a detachment from the actual comparison though—kind of impressive in a way. The fact is that in many or maybe most cases, if a given article of faith were to somehow fail the believer, that believer would go through a personal crisis. That’s not so much the case with the daily practices of faith generally sited in this argument.

 

Lausten - 12 December 2016 06:56 AM

We all do this every day. Hume could not solve the problem of skepticism. If you are skeptical of everything, you are just as paralyzed as the person who believes they aren’t in control and depend on a God that can’t be understood. We all go about our mundane lives, making decisions about bacon or no bacon, until the building is on fire. If we are skeptical of the fire alarm, we could end up dead, so we put our faith in the system and dutifully walk to the meeting point where our names are checked off.

That’s all only partially true if you throw extreme fear of uncertainty under day-to-day “faith” though. In actual fact we’re just acting on what information we have—what works, and it’s neither comparable to religious faith nor crippling in the slightest, unless we’re absolutely terrified of any even remotely significant degree of uncertainty, but humans don’t function like that. We’re quite comfortable with most day-to-day “faith” type uncertainties, mostly because we deal with their failures fairly often. Consider what happens if a believer’s actual faith is shaken though—if an article of actual faith fails somehow.

 
 
Lausten
 
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Lausten
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12 December 2016 11:58
 

Well, yeah

 
 
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