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Official stances on other causes

 
VipersGratitude
 
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VipersGratitude
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14 May 2009 05:05
 

There are countless other causes out there, many of which suffer from relgious oppression e.g. gay marriage

I think it would be prudent to compile a list of other causes and define what The Reason Project’s stances on those causes are. It would aid in determining the group’s (not the individual’s) position in the political spectrum, and consequently give some insight to which demographics TRP campaigns could appeal to.

[ Edited: 14 May 2009 05:20 by VipersGratitude]
 
 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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14 May 2009 13:45
 

I don’t think that it would be outside the scope of TRP to take a stand on corporations that release falsified studies on the safety of their products/effects of their operations. After all, they are abusing science and perverting its purpose, which is to honestly and accurately reveal how the world operates.

When organizations do things like that, it can sow a mistrust of science in the population.

I just think we need to expand our horizons beyond just fighting religion, superstition, and pseudoscience.

[ Edited: 14 May 2009 13:50 by Hypersapien]
 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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17 May 2009 20:50
 
Annie - 17 May 2009 04:45 PM

Taking a stand on the separation of church and state is important. Compare the European countries that are the least religious to the countries in the Middle East that are the most religious in the world. Look at the liberties, life-styles, health, and prosperity of the people. Consider the contrast to how women are treated in countries like Iran, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia to countries that have a secular form of government. This is why church/state separation is so important. Liberty and theocracy don’t mix!

Of course it’s important! I’m just saying we shouldn’t limit ourselves to that one issue. There are lots of important issues that are implied by humanism and freethought that we can fight for simultaneously. Seperation of church and state is just one of the most obvious.

 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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17 May 2009 22:00
 
Annie - 17 May 2009 07:38 PM

I wasn’t replying to you specifically. I was just stating that church/state separation is another stance TRP can take.

Whoops. Sorry.

But…. wasn’t SoCaS something that The Reason Project was going to be doing anyway? That’s kind of part and parcel with “spreading secular values”.


Also, It’s not just a matter of forcing the government to adhere to the establishment clause of the First Amendment, but also explaining to the public why keeping church and state separate is in their best interests, even if they are religious.

 
SFTor
 
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SFTor
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18 May 2009 02:30
 
VipersGratitude - 14 May 2009 03:05 AM

There are countless other causes out there, many of which suffer from relgious oppression e.g. gay marriage

I think it would be prudent to compile a list of other causes and define what The Reason Project’s stances on those causes are. It would aid in determining the group’s (not the individual’s) position in the political spectrum, and consequently give some insight to which demographics TRP campaigns could appeal to.

It sounds reasonable that TRP would voice opinions on social issues that are influenced by religious dogma. A broad acceptance of common humanity for all people, black white pink blue gay straight, you name it, is important as a start.

To combat religion-based ideology (especially Just World Theory) is important too. We are in a place where the slings and arrows of predatory capitalism has wreaked havoc with people’s lives. This goes back to Just World Theory to a large extent and its grounding in Puritan Christianity, and invites laissez-faire policies.

The only hope for the Reason Project is increasing the level of education in the population at large.

 
 
virtual~mary
 
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virtual~mary
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19 May 2009 18:46
 

okay, let’s get a list going:

gay marriage
separation of church and state
gender equality
religion in public schools
war
abortion
human rights
torture
death penalty
goverment funding of scientific research
media bias

 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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19 May 2009 18:49
 
virtualmary - 19 May 2009 04:46 PM

okay, let’s get a list going:

gay marriage
separation of church and state
gender equality
religion in public schools
war
abortion
human rights
torture
death penalty
goverment funding of scientific research
media bias

Public ignorance of the scientific method

 
Disturbance
 
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Disturbance
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20 May 2009 00:37
 
Hypersapien - 19 May 2009 04:49 PM
virtualmary - 19 May 2009 04:46 PM

okay, let’s get a list going:

gay marriage
separation of church and state
gender equality
religion in public schools
war
abortion
human rights
torture
death penalty
goverment funding of scientific research
media bias

Public ignorance of the scientific method

Education/Birthcontrol

 
Og
 
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Og
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20 May 2009 21:41
 

I think we need to take a step back before we jump into what political stances TRP holds. TRP should transcend party politics, especially since people of all different political backgrounds are a part of TRP. I think the issues it should address are the social and scientific issues that religion has impacted. For example, stem cell research wouldn’t even be an issue if it weren’t for religion. Gay marriage, separation of church and state, etc. Those are issues for the TRP. It gets blurrier with things like war, which is much more political than the previous social issues stated.

I’m afraid that by having official stances for TRP, we may alienate the wide variety of people that hold different political views. We just need to stick only to the issues that everyone would naturally agree on through reason.

 
yoga7165
 
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yoga7165
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20 May 2009 22:12
 

I like hypersapien’s list.

 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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21 May 2009 00:22
 
yoga7165 - 20 May 2009 08:12 PM

I like hypersapien’s list.

Huh?

I only added one thing to virtualmary’s list.

 
Hypersapien
 
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Hypersapien
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21 May 2009 00:31
 
Og - 20 May 2009 07:41 PM

I think we need to take a step back before we jump into what political stances TRP holds. TRP should transcend party politics, especially since people of all different political backgrounds are a part of TRP. I think the issues it should address are the social and scientific issues that religion has impacted. For example, stem cell research wouldn’t even be an issue if it weren’t for religion. Gay marriage, separation of church and state, etc. Those are issues for the TRP. It gets blurrier with things like war, which is much more political than the previous social issues stated.

I’m afraid that by having official stances for TRP, we may alienate the wide variety of people that hold different political views. We just need to stick only to the issues that everyone would naturally agree on through reason.

 

I think the most important things on our agenda should be the most general:

Teaching the methods and importance of critical thinking
Respect and understanding of science and the scientific method, along with the fact that although science does sometimes make mistakes, they do get corrected.
Showing the importance of separation of church and state.
Teaching people to be willing to listen to opposing points of view, and how someone isn’t an enemy just because they disagree with you.

Obviously we’ll be spending time on more specific social issues, but we aren’t going to make much headway with them with the general public until the above concepts start taking root.

 
DanDare
 
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DanDare
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21 May 2009 08:23
 

Freedom of speech including the need to prevent people being silenced or intimidated into silence, especially by laws such as “blasphemy’.
Freedom of information, saying that no information is secret and owned except in quite exceptional circumstances.
The problem of religious and corporate distortion of information is a difficult one. On one hand there is a freedom of speech issue but on the other there is the harm caused by these things. I feel certain that the freedom of speech issue trumps the latter concern, so it is up to us rationalists to identify and expose the distortions.

 
mpbrockman
 
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mpbrockman
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22 May 2009 11:31
 
Og - 20 May 2009 07:41 PM

I think we need to take a step back before we jump into what political stances TRP holds. TRP should transcend party politics, especially since people of all different political backgrounds are a part of TRP. I think the issues it should address are the social and scientific issues that religion has impacted. For example, stem cell research wouldn’t even be an issue if it weren’t for religion. Gay marriage, separation of church and state, etc. Those are issues for the TRP. It gets blurrier with things like war, which is much more political than the previous social issues stated.

I’m afraid that by having official stances for TRP, we may alienate the wide variety of people that hold different political views. We just need to stick only to the issues that everyone would naturally agree on through reason.

Heartily seconded, and I might take it a step further. There are reasonable stances to be taken on opposite sides of many an issue. The TRP forum is a good place to hash these out and perhaps we will reach some consensuses, but I think our having “official positions” on issues will, in the end, limit us. The mission statement contains the words “encourage critical thinking”. To take hard and fast positions, even on what seem to be the most obviously relevant issues - seems contrary to this aim.

Or more lightly put, do y’all really want to get into the cat herding business?

 
 
Argo
 
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Argo
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23 May 2009 08:41
 

No one has mentioned the war on drugs yet. Everyone should have full rights over their own bodies and what they put in them.

 
virtual~mary
 
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virtual~mary
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23 May 2009 14:35
 
mpbrockman - 22 May 2009 09:31 AM

Heartily seconded, and I might take it a step further. There are reasonable stances to be taken on opposite sides of many an issue. The TRP forum is a good place to hash these out and perhaps we will reach some consensuses, but I think our having “official positions” on issues will, in the end, limit us. The mission statement contains the words “encourage critical thinking”. To take hard and fast positions, even on what seem to be the most obviously relevant issues - seems contrary to this aim.

Or more lightly put, do y’all really want to get into the cat herding business?

no cat herding, please!

you make an important point mpbrockman, but if we aim to “encourage critical thinking” then when we identify instances (within the above mentioned umbrella topics) where a lack of sound reason seems to dominate public discourse, or worse, appears for practical purposes to be absent, should we not, as a group, be speaking up? maybe not with a “hard and fast” position, but with a general consensus (that as you mentioned we have perhaps hashed out here) or with a number of reasonable alternative positions/viewpoints?

 
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