< 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›
 
   
 

THE JOY OF ATHEISM

 
W. Collins
 
Avatar
 
 
W. Collins
Total Posts:  2451
Joined  13-07-2009
 
 
 
21 February 2010 15:20
 

Why should we accept you brand of superstition and dogma over any of the others chowbok?

 
 
can zen
 
Avatar
 
 
can zen
Total Posts:  1944
Joined  23-07-2009
 
 
 
21 February 2010 16:39
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 12:58 PM

Thank goodness then!

Let’s get back the subject of Daniel’s book.

If you want to write humor it should be funny for funny sake.

Remember Daniel’s book is called “The Joy of Atheism,” so the above excerpt would imply that part of the joy an Atheist gets out of life is ridiculing Christians; in particular, those Christians least equipped to fight back.  Daniel makes an assumption in his excerpt that all people from Appalachia are Christian.  Perhaps they are perhaps they are not, I don’t know.  Daniel should source his material.  The one true thing about the people of Appalachia is that they are some of the poorest people on earth, many homes do not have indoor plumbing, and the only hot meals children get are through federal and State funded “hot school meal” programs.  Insulting the poorest of the poor is just not funny especially if you are writing a book on Atheism. 

Are you so mean-spirited that you need to categorize other socioeconomic groups as a sub species?  Much like Nazi Germany did with the European Jews. 

Do you really need to portray Christians as inbreed idiots to give credence to your own non-faith?  Is that what Atheism is?  An emptiness that breeds hatred for others because, let’s face it, why stop at hating just the religious – why not everybody who does not think like you.

Is this Sam Harris’ goal?  I don’t think so.  Harris, much like the other sorry ilk (Dawkins especially) who paint themselves as martyrs to the cause of Reason and Science are really no better than the snake-oil sales man of old.  They, my friend, are in it for the money. 

If, for instance, you were a Christian you would know that the majority of Christians do believe in Science and actually have no problem with concepts like evolution.  People like Harris and Dawkins have built a successful livelihood on the very tiny, but vocal minority of Christians, that don’t believe in most scientific concepts; which are born, not out of the Bible, but more out of a lack of access to good education – and yes – Appalachia is just one good example, but that is no good reason for ridicule.

As for the real joy in atheism; it will depend on how tightly you strengthen your heart against the universe about you.  It will be up to each and every atheist to find his own way; solitary and alone, the tragic figure in a tragic play, proud and independent—mindful of the world and wary of God.  Ah, what a fine upstanding conceptual being he will become; adrift in a universe full of wonders and yet, failing to see it.  And that’s not funny either.

Ouch! That was a real kick in the balls to every atheist! At least Daniel is trying to be funny, but you are being damned serious chowbok.  Sure Daniel’s exerpt is poking fun at the stupidity of those living in Appalachia, but guess what - they are stupid (as in ignorant/uneducated) - even you admit this point seriously.

But besides your depiction of atheists as empty, lonely figures drifting aimlessly and missing all the wonders in the world, you go on to compare them with nazis (who were pretty well ALL god-fearing christians, btw), this is not meant as a joke, again you are serious chowbok.

I would just have to say, that you can go on floating around on that divine magic carpet you call christianity as you are sucking on god’s warm chocolate balls, or whatever you said you do with the creator of the universe, while the rest of us try to deal with the real world and with the place of humans in that world, and try our best to unfuck it from the stupid christian mentality in which it has been wrapped for the last 1700 (or so) years.  I’m so glad that you are the advocate for all the stupid people in America, unfortunately your best efforts will only succeed in keeping them stupified and ignorant . . . good lick, I mean luck, chowbok!

(Oh, and where did you get that statistic that most christians believe in science and accept evolution?  Can I get some’o'them fine statistics from under that same rock?)

Bob

 
 
GAD
 
Avatar
 
 
GAD
Total Posts:  17990
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
21 February 2010 16:52
 

Good post, Bob. But I believe it is “chocolate salty balls”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNaEAiwlaLY

 
 
Rigamortus
 
Avatar
 
 
Rigamortus
Total Posts:  162
Joined  15-01-2010
 
 
 
21 February 2010 17:16
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 12:58 PM
Rigamortus - 21 February 2010 03:36 AM

I’m not attacking.

I’m not on any kind of slope. 

I’m not bullying. 

I’m not giving you my best or my worst. 

I’m just stating that I think you’re simply trolling for responses. 

If you’re not a troll, then I have even less to say to you.  A troll I can converse with, where I don’t even have a starting point with someone who actually believes “Christ’s victory over you will come from within His Sacred Heart” or “Just relax and melt into His Glory like chocolate into ice-cream; delicious, smooth and luxurious” and claims to have any idea what either of those actually mean.

In any case, I’m done with you.  If you don’t understand why, then I’m even more done with you.

-Rig


Thank goodness then!

Let’s get back the subject of Daniel’s book.

If you want to write humor it should be funny for funny sake.

Remember Daniel’s book is called “The Joy of Atheism,” so the above excerpt would imply that part of the joy an Atheist gets out of life is ridiculing Christians; in particular, those Christians least equipped to fight back.  Daniel makes an assumption in his excerpt that all people from Appalachia are Christian.  Perhaps they are perhaps they are not, I don’t know.  Daniel should source his material.  The one true thing about the people of Appalachia is that they are some of the poorest people on earth, many homes do not have indoor plumbing, and the only hot meals children get are through federal and State funded “hot school meal” programs.  Insulting the poorest of the poor is just not funny especially if you are writing a book on Atheism. 

Are you so mean-spirited that you need to categorize other socioeconomic groups as a sub species?  Much like Nazi Germany did with the European Jews. 

Do you really need to portray Christians as inbreed idiots to give credence to your own non-faith?  Is that what Atheism is?  An emptiness that breeds hatred for others because, let’s face it, why stop at hating just the religious – why not everybody who does not think like you.

Is this Sam Harris’ goal?  I don’t think so.  Harris, much like the other sorry ilk (Dawkins especially) who paint themselves as martyrs to the cause of Reason and Science are really no better than the snake-oil sales man of old.  They, my friend, are in it for the money. 

If, for instance, you were a Christian you would know that the majority of Christians do believe in Science and actually have no problem with concepts like evolution.  People like Harris and Dawkins have built a successful livelihood on the very tiny, but vocal minority of Christians, that don’t believe in most scientific concepts; which are born, not out of the Bible, but more out of a lack of access to good education – and yes – Appalachia is just one good example, but that is no good reason for ridicule.

As for the real joy in atheism; it will depend on how tightly you strengthen your heart against the universe about you.  It will be up to each and every atheist to find his own way; solitary and alone, the tragic figure in a tragic play, proud and independent—mindful of the world and wary of God.  Ah, what a fine upstanding conceptual being he will become; adrift in a universe full of wonders and yet, failing to see it.  And that’s not funny either.


Could explain to me what you mean by claiming an atheist is “wary of God”? 
Do you mean we are “wary of God” in the same way you are “wary of Zeus” or “wary of Quetzalcoatl”?

-Rig

 
 
can zen
 
Avatar
 
 
can zen
Total Posts:  1944
Joined  23-07-2009
 
 
 
21 February 2010 18:21
 
GAD - 21 February 2010 03:52 PM

I believe it is “chocolate salty balls”.

I think you are correct with that slight alteration.  Chef (Isaac Hayes) would certainly be a good role model for a god-figure!

Bob

 
 
chowbok
 
Avatar
 
 
chowbok
Total Posts:  22
Joined  11-01-2010
 
 
 
21 February 2010 18:26
 

Hostility:  it is to be expected.

I am a Roman Catholic.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html

Christians 33.32% (of which Roman Catholics 16.99%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.53%, Anglicans 1.25%), Muslims 21.01%, Hindus 13.26%, Buddhists 5.84%, Sikhs 0.35%, Jews 0.23%, Baha’is 0.12%, other religions 11.78%, non-religious 11.77%, atheists 2.32% (2007 est.)

As a Roman Catholic I am allowed to make any up my own mind about such things as evolution.  No Dogma ties my mind as it does yours.  Freedom of choice is the hallmark of Catholicism.  No law binds me as popular culture says it does.  There are however, only a couple of things that are core to the Faith that are immutable, untouchable and not up for reconsideration.  As far as the hypothesis of evolution—that’s not one of them (as are, in fact, most things).

Here; read for yourself.  This is the kind of information that Harris and Dawkins don’t want you to know.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05654a.htm

Enlightening, to say the least, even atheism gets attention.


Another example is theoretical science.  The scientist who formulized The Big Bang Theory, based on Einstein’s calculations, was a Roman Catholic Priest named Georges Lemaître.  This but one example, there are many many more. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The more you know: the more your world-view will change.

[ Edited: 21 February 2010 18:29 by chowbok]
 
W. Collins
 
Avatar
 
 
W. Collins
Total Posts:  2451
Joined  13-07-2009
 
 
 
21 February 2010 18:57
 

Okay, so why should we worship God and Jesus like good little Roman Catholics rather than worship, say, Zeus or Shiva?

 
 
nv
 
Avatar
 
 
nv
Total Posts:  7998
Joined  29-04-2005
 
 
 
21 February 2010 19:16
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 05:26 PM

As a Roman Catholic I am allowed to make any up my own mind about such things as evolution.

Do you see yourself as being qualified to make such a choice? Technically, I’m a Catholic, too. Is it up to me to choose, or do I need to have degrees in cell biology?

By the way, yes, plenty of biologists have critiquing things to say about evolutionary theory. That’s what they do for a living. But peer review and such does nothing to diminish the use and validity of Darwin’s theories, as they’ve been updated over the years. In other words, it’s not a yes/no type of question. Evolution is an enormous field, and is foundational to all biological understanding. Do its theories continue to require tweaking and massaging as knowledge, information and communication increase? Of course. Welcome to the world as it is, as opposed to how it once seemed via ancient wild guesses.

 
 
can zen
 
Avatar
 
 
can zen
Total Posts:  1944
Joined  23-07-2009
 
 
 
21 February 2010 19:59
 

I think you have made an enormous mistake in this statement chowbok,

This is the kind of information that Harris and Dawkins don’t want you to know

I went to the “newadvent” site and read the article, Harris and Dawkins would be thrilled to have people go to this site and read the position of the catholic church with regard to the theory of evolution. There are many erroneous claims in the article that simply invalidate the whole thesis, but including god in the theory is perhaps the most outrageous claim in it.  Of course a close second is the inclusion of “heaven” and “human souls” in the official vatican version of the theory of evolution is more proof that what you roman catholics accept as evolution is some very strange and mangled version of what the real science is telling us.  If you need to tweak the theory of evolution in order to make room for the emergence of “human souls” into the process, sorry chowbok but you have terribly misunderstood the science behind the facts of evolution.  You get a big ‘0’ on this exam!

I was not being hostile to you, but responding to your kicking me in the nuts.  Was I out of line?

As far as your factbook figures go, what are you trying to prove?  That 33.32% constitutes the actual truth?  For the sake of argument, let’s put all the “non-theists” into one single group (includes the 11.77% non-religious, the 5.84% buddhists, and the 2.32% atheists) and you get a grand total of 19.93%!  Ha! that’s almost 20% of human beings are non-theists while just under 17% are roman catholics . . . .you lose! (Naturally, I am just playing with the stats, sort of meant as a joke.)

Out of curiosity chowbok, how do you rationalize the painting of god’s ass on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?  Maybe you don’t want to think about it, but to me it symbolizes the work of an open homosexual (Michelangelo) rubbing the face of christianity with the absurdity of their own prejudices. 

Bob

[ Edited: 21 February 2010 20:06 by can zen]
 
 
GAD
 
Avatar
 
 
GAD
Total Posts:  17990
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
21 February 2010 21:10
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 05:26 PM

Here; read for yourself.  This is the kind of information that Harris and Dawkins don’t want you to know.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05654a.htm

Enlightening, to say the least, even atheism gets attention.

WTF are you talking about? Harris and Dawkins don’t want anyone to know that the Catholic church could no longer deny evolution so they capitulated and fell back to a god of the gaps position that evolution doesn’t cover the origin of life therefore it is compatible with evolution and therefore the bible. Every fucking body knows that, even the POS evangelicals, they just disagree.

 
 
chowbok
 
Avatar
 
 
chowbok
Total Posts:  22
Joined  11-01-2010
 
 
 
21 February 2010 23:55
 
nonverbal - 21 February 2010 06:16 PM

Do you see yourself as being qualified to make such a choice?

No more than you.

You have to think for yourself.  Or better yet, not be afraid to think for yourself.  Our Church has plenty of signposts pointing to “how.”  Also, plenty of good signposts pointing to “why.”  But, no Church can force you into Faith.  This is for you to find.  Shun it if you must but that force, that squirreling intellect, that we humans have will continue to postulate concepts and ideas about your metaphysical existence in this universe.  It’s a natural state of humanness that you can either embrace or reject.  Currently, you choose to reject.  But, if you are to make a truly informed decision about the state of your own existence then you should taste all things fully, before rejecting them out of hand.  Prayer is a good start.  And because your biology plays such an important role in this universe, it is important to bend you body and kneel. 
Humility is the first step.

 
EN
 
Avatar
 
 
EN
Total Posts:  21959
Joined  11-03-2007
 
 
 
22 February 2010 00:26
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 05:26 PM

Christians 33.32% (of which Roman Catholics 16.99%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.53%, Anglicans 1.25%)

One of my favorite subjects: CIA statistics on religion.  For the CIA’s information, Anglicans are Protestant. They were one of the original four groups to break with the RCC (Lutherans, Anglicans, Reformed, Anabaptists).  Plus, all the above don’t add up to 33.32%.  I would like to see the stats on the other Christian groups - bet some of them qualify as Protestant as well. Not that it really makes any difference.

 
EN
 
Avatar
 
 
EN
Total Posts:  21959
Joined  11-03-2007
 
 
 
22 February 2010 00:32
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 05:26 PM

  No Dogma ties my mind as it does yours.  Freedom of choice is the hallmark of Catholicism.

You cannot be serious about this.  I’m a non-Catholic Christian, and have no real beef with Catholicism. But dogma is your middle name. You have three sources of authority - scripture, tradition, and the magisterium of the church (which is the teaching authority of the church, which is the bishops, which is mainly the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, sitting ex cathedra). You go against these and you are no longer Catholic. With 2000 years of ecclesiastical authority staring you in the face, there is no way that “freedom of choice is the hallmark of Catholicism.”  That dog won’t hunt.

What happened to that hallmark in the Inquisition?

 
chowbok
 
Avatar
 
 
chowbok
Total Posts:  22
Joined  11-01-2010
 
 
 
22 February 2010 02:02
 
can zen - 21 February 2010 06:59 PM

Out of curiosity chowbok, how do you rationalize the painting of god’s ass on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?  Maybe you don’t want to think about it, but to me it symbolizes the work of an open homosexual (Michelangelo) rubbing the face of christianity with the absurdity of their own prejudices. 

Bob

Bob,

Are you trying to shock me?

You breathe in, you breathe out.  A chemical exchange is made, nothing more.  You consume matter and you excrete matter; again, a chemical exchange is made.  It is all part of the human experience; beginning in the beginning, in the singularity that became this universe four billion years ago. 
What you are is an amazing and extraordinary creature that has one foot in space and time and another in the world of endlessly living and vibrant souls.  You are miraculous.  You are wondrous – but still not wise.

But, you!  Here and now, front and center – do you think God so little a creature that He would not love His own creation regardless of sexual preference?  The Good, the Bad and just plain Ugly? What God builds so majestic a castle as our universe and then excludes or picks and chooses?  Not my God – not the same God that loves you.

Seek Him out – I dare you!  He will surprise you.

 
nv
 
Avatar
 
 
nv
Total Posts:  7998
Joined  29-04-2005
 
 
 
22 February 2010 02:34
 
chowbok - 21 February 2010 10:55 PM
nonverbal - 21 February 2010 06:16 PM

Do you see yourself as being qualified to make such a choice?

No more than you.

You have to think for yourself.  Or better yet, not be afraid to think for yourself.  Our Church has plenty of signposts pointing to “how.”  Also, plenty of good signposts pointing to “why.”  But, no Church can force you into Faith.  This is for you to find.  Shun it if you must but that force, that squirreling intellect, that we humans have will continue to postulate concepts and ideas about your metaphysical existence in this universe.  It’s a natural state of humanness that you can either embrace or reject.  Currently, you choose to reject.  But, if you are to make a truly informed decision about the state of your own existence then you should taste all things fully, before rejecting them out of hand.  Prayer is a good start.  And because your biology plays such an important role in this universe, it is important to bend you body and kneel. 
Humility is the first step.

But if biologists daily rely on data and extrapolations from various evolutionary theories, who are we to question such a process? Such a skeptical approach seems little ridiculous when you consider post-Darwin success in medical science, including disease inoculations.

Please never preach to me again, by the way, or certain of my word choices will quickly devolve.

 
 
 < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›