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Buddha Mind?

 
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11 April 2012 16:40
 
saralynn - 21 September 2011 11:42 AM

Anyway, the term Buddha-mind comes up frequently when I listen or read Buddhist discourses and I think it means that once we get rid of all the “poisons”, our minds are naturally peaceful, joyous and loving.

Isn’t this a lot of bunk…or woo?  Aren’t our minds naturally self-centered and we either cooperate or fight dependent upon what serves us individually or our species.best?  Buddha-mind strikes me as almost identical with Christ-mind and it seems like an unsubstantiated premise to me.  Of course, being about to observe and not be driven by our instincts is desirable, but is there such a thing as Buddha-mind and is it folly to assume there is?

Zen master Yuanwu writes to us:

“All those with conditioned minds are as far apart from true reality as the sky is from the earth.  Right now, if you cannot pass through the barrier, it is because your mind has many serious attachments.  If you can clear these away and reach the realm where there is no conditioned mind, all delusions and defilements and emotional habits will end, and all the obstructions created by conditioned knowledge and arbitrary views and intellectual understanding will be dissolved away - what else is there?

“This is why Nanquan said that, once freed from its conditioning, the ordinary mind is the Way.  But as soon as you produce a thought seeking to be “ordinary,” you have already turned away and missed it.  This is the point that is most subtle and hardest to approach.  Even immeasurably great people falter and hesitate when they get here - how much the more so for those still in the stage of learning.

“You must strive with all your might to bite through here and cut off conditioned habits of mind.  Be like a person who has died the great death: after your breath is cut off, then you come back to life.  Only then do you realize that it is as open as empty space.  Only then do you reach the point where your feet are walking on the ground of reality.”  (end quote)

mental bugbears - is it possible to be free?  (“What else is there?”)

bugbear 2 b :  a continuous source of irritation :  PROBLEM   -  (Webster)

(Yuanwu quoted from the book, ‘ZEN LETTERS - Teachings of Yuanwu’ - Translated by J.C. Cleary and Thomas Cleary)

Spreading through the April woods, the fresh new leaves of Solomon’s Seal (Maianthemum dilatatum)

[ Edited: 11 April 2012 16:54 by unsmoked]
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10 May 2012 05:08
 

Saw has Christianity, Islamism, the cults, I only understand Buddhism, perhaps is the family influence lets me to Buddhism fixed time,Their clothes I very much appreciate

esaletop1.com

[ Edited: 10 May 2012 08:27 by Andrew]
 
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18 May 2014 14:30
 
saralynn - 21 September 2011 11:42 AM

I have been heavily into Buddhism lately.  In terms of basic psychological principles, I find it very helpful. In my youth, I was quite interested in Buddhism, but veered off into Christian philosophy with its emphasis on love, perfection, and service.  In retrospect, I wish I would have explored Buddhism more deeply before approaching Christianity because I think I may have been less susceptible to certain questionable assumptions that underlay Christian doctrine.

Anyway, the term Buddha-mind comes up frequently when I listen or read Buddhist discourses and I think it means that once we get rid of all the “poisons”, our minds are naturally peaceful, joyous and loving.

Isn’t this a lot of bunk…or woo?  Aren’t our minds naturally self-centered and we either cooperate or fight dependent upon what serves us individually or our species.best?  Buddha-mind strikes me as almost identical with Christ-mind and it seems like an unsubstantiated premise to me.  Of course, being about to observe and not be driven by our instincts is desirable, but is there such a thing as Buddha-mind and is it folly to assume there is?

 

Please correct me if I’m wrong with the actual ideology but I believe Buddha is not fully accurate on this issue. .

Human beings have four elements, our desire (lust), mind, heart and souls. Buddhism describe about to silence the mind, but it is not to silent the mind but to silent our heart. The mind needs to be active with reasoning, improving and advancing in life but the heart must be silent and open to adapt to the law of nature. This is equally the same in Islam and can be describe through the following verses. . .


        Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4) (to silent our heart)

        Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb , who do not use reason (8.22) (active mind)


I believe human beings need to advance in technology, innovation etc and at the same time open their heart for achieving balance and justice. . . for me Buddhism only represents part of the element, ie. water. . and we need earth, fire and air to create Earth. . ie. a complete life.

[ Edited: 18 May 2014 14:45 by muslims]
 
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18 May 2014 14:50
 
muslims - 18 May 2014 12:30 PM
saralynn - 21 September 2011 11:42 AM

I have been heavily into Buddhism lately.  In terms of basic psychological principles, I find it very helpful. In my youth, I was quite interested in Buddhism, but veered off into Christian philosophy with its emphasis on love, perfection, and service.  In retrospect, I wish I would have explored Buddhism more deeply before approaching Christianity because I think I may have been less susceptible to certain questionable assumptions that underlay Christian doctrine.

Anyway, the term Buddha-mind comes up frequently when I listen or read Buddhist discourses and I think it means that once we get rid of all the “poisons”, our minds are naturally peaceful, joyous and loving.

Isn’t this a lot of bunk…or woo?  Aren’t our minds naturally self-centered and we either cooperate or fight dependent upon what serves us individually or our species.best?  Buddha-mind strikes me as almost identical with Christ-mind and it seems like an unsubstantiated premise to me.  Of course, being about to observe and not be driven by our instincts is desirable, but is there such a thing as Buddha-mind and is it folly to assume there is?

 

Please correct me if I’m wrong with the actual ideology but I believe Buddha is not fully accurate on this issue. .

Human beings have four elements, our desire (lust), mind, heart and souls. Buddhism describe about to silence the mind, but it is not to silent the mind but to silent our heart. The mind needs to be active with reasoning, improving and advancing in life but the heart must be silent and open to adapt to the law of nature. This is equally the same in Islam and can be describe through the following verses. . .


        Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4) (to silent our heart)

        Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb , who do not use reason (8.22) (active mind)


I believe human beings need to advance in technology, innovation etc and at the same time open their heart for achieving balance and justice. . . for me Buddhism only represents part of the element, ie. water. . and we need earth, fire and air to create Earth. . ie. life.

 

I think you’re a bit off here.  Silencing the mind does not mean abandoning reason, rather it means that the “chich” (from the Spanish “chichero” referring to the sound of many crickets), the extraneous mental chatter is gone.  So the mind can actually function properly, without all that of distraction.  If reasoning is required, it reasons but reasoning all the time, for no purpose, or worse just allowing the mind to chatter away about whatever pops into it, making unwarranted assumptions, etc., is the state most people find themselves in most of the time.

 
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18 May 2014 15:03
 
burt - 18 May 2014 12:50 PM

I think you’re a bit off here.  Silencing the mind does not mean abandoning reason, rather it means that the “chich” (from the Spanish “chichero” referring to the sound of many crickets), the extraneous mental chatter is gone.  So the mind can actually function properly, without all that of distraction.  If reasoning is required, it reasons but reasoning all the time, for no purpose, or worse just allowing the mind to chatter away about whatever pops into it, making unwarranted assumptions, etc., is the state most people find themselves in most of the time.

 

What I mean is that the mind does not function as a whole. . ie to silent the mind and to seek more knowledge in that same area. This what I describe as the element of “water”. . .

muslims - 18 May 2014 12:30 PM

for me Buddhism only represents part of the element, ie. water. . and we need earth, fire and air to create Earth. . ie. a complete life.

and from my “personal opinion”. . . this is what I saw in religion .

[image]

None of them are wrong. . all religions are right but they are right in one area only.

It is not complete, and it is not “Earth”, not “real life” or “reality”.

[ Edited: 18 May 2014 15:17 by muslims]
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18 May 2014 15:14
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18 May 2014 16:45
 
muslims - 18 May 2014 01:14 PM

This is a complete life. .  “Earth” . reality. .

An interesting conceptualization.  Of course, every religion contains aspects of all elements….

Are you familiar with the writings of Idries Shah?

 
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18 May 2014 18:31
 
muslims - 18 May 2014 01:03 PM

None of them are wrong. . all religions are right but they are right in one area only.

There are no gods and nothing beyond this life, so they are ALL wrong. I also find your bias of putting Islam as the Just and Balance center laughable. Just and Balance does not require gods, myth, magic or superstition, only men of reason which is the antithesis of gods and religion.

 
 
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18 May 2014 23:58
 
GAD - 18 May 2014 04:31 PM

There are no gods and nothing beyond this life, so they are ALL wrong.


“God/gods” is just a symbol and when religious people search the meaning of that symbol, they all will end with the “understanding” that there is no “god/God” but there is a “Creator” (the law of causation). . . they will know the Creator. However many people cannot prove the Creator because they can’t even prove their own existence. . .so maybe it is they who don’t really existed and living in dreams/nightmares. The Creator only exists to those who can prove their own existence.


. . .

GAD - 18 May 2014 04:31 PM

I also find your bias of putting Islam as the Just and Balance center laughable.


Sorry. . I borrow the graph from my other discussion and “Islam” is from the root words of “S L M” or “salam”, ie. “peace”

My point is “peace” requires “just” and “balance”. . .
“Just” and “balance” requires “assimilation”, not “submission”. . .

What is there to “assimilate”?

“Assimilation” of life, and all religions because Islam is not a religion. . .
ie. assimilation of the elements of fire, air, water and earth in all religions. . .

[image - the embedded code]


Islam is about system of life (Sunnatullah), the design. . .


        Is it other than the system (the design) of Allah that they desire
        when those in the heavens and the earth have “Islam” (aslama, أَسْلَمَ) to Him voluntarily or by force?

        3.83


I wonder why they need people to have the label of “Islam” when everything in the heavens and earth have “Islam” (aslama, أَسْلَمَ)


. . .

GAD - 18 May 2014 04:31 PM

Just and Balance does not require gods, myth, magic or superstition, only men of reason which is the antithesis of gods and religion.


Yes I agree, “Just and Balance does not require gods, myth, magic or superstition”. . .

It requires mind of understanding. . .

However there are many types of knowledge and understanding (so as there are different types of intelligent, ie. emotional intelligence, linguistic intelligence, etc). .  and much are related to

        Those who listen. . . Do we listen? How well do we listen?
        Those who think. . . Do we think? How well do we think?
        Those who reflect. . . Do we reflect? How well do we reflect?
        Those who observe. . . Do we observe? How well do we observe?
        Those who exercise their intellect. . . Do exercise our intellect? How well do we practice our intellect?
        Those who take heed and remember. . . Do we take heed and remember? How well do we take heed and remember?
        Those who ask questions. . . Do we ask questions? How well do we ask questions?
        Those who develop an insight. . . Do we develop our insight? How well do we develop our insight?
        Those who know. . . Do we understand the symbols, design and their meanings? How well do we understand the system?


. . .

GAD - 18 May 2014 04:31 PM

they are ALL wrong.

For me, this is religion.

 

. . .

[ Edited: 19 May 2014 00:28 by muslims]
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19 May 2014 00:01
 
burt - 18 May 2014 02:45 PM

Of course, every religion contains aspects of all elements….


Yes, and no . . and that’s why they are unable to accept other religions (ie. other elements). Only those who truly practice his religion will be able to accept all religions.


. . .

burt - 18 May 2014 02:45 PM

Are you familiar with the writings of Idries Shah?


No. . please explain.

[ Edited: 19 May 2014 00:09 by muslims]
 
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19 May 2014 01:01
 
muslims - 18 May 2014 10:01 PM
burt - 18 May 2014 02:45 PM

Of course, every religion contains aspects of all elements….


Yes, and no . . and that’s why they are unable to accept other religions (ie. other elements). Only those who truly practice his religion will be able to accept all religions.


. . .

burt - 18 May 2014 02:45 PM

Are you familiar with the writings of Idries Shah?


No. . please explain.

An Afghan Sufi author who lived in England.  He presented Sufism in a non-religious form and had a major impact in the West.  A quote from his book Knowing How to Know (p.176): “Ideology, as ordinarily active, drives people into absurd forms of thought and behavior.  Beware of it, because it attempts to apply mechanical concepts to human development.”

pp.333 - 334: lists some characteristics of cult organizations: (1) Claiming they are the only source of truth; (2) Mistaking emotional stimulation for spiritual states; (3) Keeping members apart from the general population; (4) Failure to do one’s “human duty” toward everyone, regardless of their position; (5) Emphasis on hope and fear, reward and punishment; (6) Material richness of leaders; (7) Emphasis on the special qualities of the leader or leaders; (8) Unwarranted secrecy; (9) Lack of a sense of humor; (10) Use of stereotypic rituals and practices not adapted to current needs; (11) Idolatry; (12) Teachers who are themselves ignorant.

pp.335 - 336: lists some characteristics of authentic spiritual schools: (1) Attention is not restricted to any single literature or teaching; (2) It will be able to explain and interpret past formulations of the teachings, and show how they were appropriate in their time and place; (3) It will be able to explain the succession of forms used in the teaching; (4) It will not be cultural or language based; (5) It will not appear weird or unusual from the view of the culture in which it operates; (6) It will not rely on mindless “slogans”; (7) It makes use of movement, music, and ritual in an instrumental way rather than as a conditioning method; (8) It makes no claim to have a mission to teach everybody; (9) It makes clear the nature of the exercises, techniques, and ideas employed; (10) It deals with everybody who belongs in accord with their capacity from an objective position.

 
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19 May 2014 02:55
 
muslims - 18 May 2014 09:58 PM

“Assimilation” of life, and all religions because Islam is not a religion. . .
ie. assimilation of the elements of fire, air, water and earth in all religions. . .

What no fifth element?

Islam is religion, it’s not a question or debate, nor will endlessly quoting it and projecting your own interpretation on it change that.

 
 
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19 May 2014 04:23
 
GAD - 19 May 2014 12:55 AM

What no fifth element?


The fifth element is “religion” . .  just joking. . .  smile


      What I mean is the ideology of “I am right, you are wrong”, the “fire element”. . (see image)

      Fire said he is right and better than Air, Water and Earth
      Air said he is right and better than Fire, Water and Earth
      Water said he is right and better than Fire, Air and Earth
      Earth said he is right and better than Fire, Air and Water


and it doesn’t matter what are the fifth element is. .
I’m only describing how these elements influence today’s religions. . .

      Fire, law, policy right and wrong. . Hinduism, Sunni/Shia. . .
      Air, communication, relationship, service and bring happiness to mankind. . . Christianity, Missionaries. . .
      Water, expertise and knowledge. . . Buddhism, sufism. . .
      Earth, traditions, culture . . . Judaism, Wahabism. . .

and where in fact all of them are right. . . we need fire, air, water and earth to create a complete “Earth”, “reality” and “life”. . .


. . .

GAD - 19 May 2014 12:55 AM

Islam is religion, it’s not a question or debate, nor will endlessly quoting it and projecting your own interpretation on it change that.

These are the facts (refer here), and which can only be disapproved through reasoning and evidences from it main source, ie. the Quran. Not even Muhammad can decide against the Quran (refer here).

 

And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who do not expect the meeting with Us say, “Bring us a Qur’an other than this or change it.” Say, [O Muhammad], “It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I only follow what is revealed to me. Indeed I fear, if I should disobey my Lord, the punishment of a tremendous Day.” (10.5)

And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; Then We would have cut from him the aorta. And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us] from him. (69:44-47)

 

. . .
fire (right or wrong) should remain inside the earth. . .

[ Edited: 19 May 2014 04:36 by muslims]
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19 May 2014 04:32
 
burt - 18 May 2014 11:01 PM

Beware of it, because it attempts to apply mechanical concepts to human development.”

Thank you . . and I think it is quite okay since no “religion” (or non religion) has a monopoly on truth and believe it or not, we are all those things, at one time or another.

 
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19 May 2014 05:06
 
muslims - 19 May 2014 02:32 AM
burt - 18 May 2014 11:01 PM

Beware of it, because it attempts to apply mechanical concepts to human development.”

Thank you . . and I think it is quite okay since no “religion” (or non religion) has a monopoly on truth and believe it or not, we are all those things, at one time or another.

Are you familiar with the Chinese five element theory?  In particular that it describes a self-sustaining cycle of interactions that can be represented by a five pointed star inscribed in a circle?  Aristotle also introduced a fifth element (the quintessence), which might be called “space.”

 
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