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Buddha Mind?

 
burt
 
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burt
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22 May 2014 19:50
 
muslims - 22 May 2014 03:16 PM
burt - 22 May 2014 01:55 PM

I’m skeptical about this boy (although who knows, after all Mozart wrote his first symphony while still a boy), and apparently many Muslims are as well http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Shariff_Idd_-_5-Year-Old_Hafiz.


You can watch the video and there are thousand of witnesses and the matter went into public. . .

+ what a normal 4-5 years old boy can normally do ?

 

muslims - 22 May 2014 05:28 AM

How to explain this situation ? Is it from the mind or the heart ?


However , the point I want to prove is that there are another source of knowledge, other than the mind.

This is equally true in cases of hypnosis etc.

I’m not saying there are not other sources of knowledge, on that we agree, I’m only saying that I’m skeptical about the case you posted (and I posted a link to a site where there were comments from other people who claimed to have seen the kid and felt that he wasn’t for real). 

Perhaps you are not differentiating between forms of knowledge?  Here’s a simple example of what I was saying regarding knowing complex scientific theories without every having studied them: a person may, through direct knowledge, intuit a beautiful piano song.  But if they have never played the piano or practiced scales, etc., they won’t be able to just sit down and play it, the muscles involved just won’t have the training required.  Mozart could write symphonies as a young boy, and in fact had the capacity to hear a piece of music and then play it (or write down the score).  That was a gift he was born with.  But he had gone through a great deal of rigorous training in order for that gift to be able to operate. 

Here’s a Sufi story (probably drawing from the Odyssey): A Sufi was shipwrecked on an island populated by barbaric cyclops inhabitants.  One of these creatures captured the Sufi and took him to his cave where he pretended to be acting like a good host.  He prepared a bed of straw for the Sufi to sleep in for the night.  The Sufi had a premonition, however, and after the cyclops went to sleep he moved from the bed to a far corner of the cave.  Sure enough, later in the night the cyclops got up, took a large club, and proceeded to rain blows on the straw bed.  Then he returned to sleep.  In the morning, the cyclops was quite surprised to see the Sufi not only alive but in good spirits.  “How did you sleep?” he asked.  “Oh, very well.” the Sufi said, “very well.”  The cyclops asked if there had been any disturbances during the night and the Sufi said “No, there was a fly that buzzed about for a while, that’s all.”  The cyclops was puzzled.  “Are you a magician?” he asked.  “Yes,” the Sufi replied, “I do know a good bit of magic.”  So the cyclops took the Sufi outside and pointed to a small stream flowing about 100 meters from the cave entrance.  “Use your magic to bring water from that stream closer to the cave so I don’t have to walk so far to get it” the cyclops said.  The Sufi agreed.  He went and got a shovel from the cave and began to dig a ditch toward the stream.  “Hey!” the cyclops said, “why don’t you use your magic to do this?”  The Sufi said: “In magic, as in everything, there are definite laws.  In accord with those laws, I am using the easiest way possible to accomplish this task.”

 
muslims
 
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muslims
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23 May 2014 02:46
 
burt - 22 May 2014 05:50 PM

I’m not saying there are not other sources of knowledge, on that we agree, I’m only saying that I’m skeptical about the case you posted (and I posted a link to a site where there were comments from other people who claimed to have seen the kid and felt that he wasn’t for real).


Thank you for the explanation and I agree with your explanation for the ordinary and common level of people. However, I believe reality does not have only one rule, it have many sets of rules. The facts are one of them, and just to prove my point that the mind is not the only source of knowledge. That is simple facts, if that Kenyan boy can recite the whole Quran, answer public questions and fluently speaks foreign languages in public at the age of 4-5 years old. . then we can make a conclusion that the mind is not the source of his knowledge. What can we do at the age of 4-5 years old ? Therefore, there must be an explanation and everything is subjected to the “law of causation”, the law of cause and effect, even “magic” and “talent”. However, many people tend to ignore the “law of causation” when they cannot provide the explanation.

[ Edited: 23 May 2014 02:50 by muslims]
 
burt
 
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burt
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23 May 2014 05:11
 
muslims - 23 May 2014 12:46 AM
burt - 22 May 2014 05:50 PM

I’m not saying there are not other sources of knowledge, on that we agree, I’m only saying that I’m skeptical about the case you posted (and I posted a link to a site where there were comments from other people who claimed to have seen the kid and felt that he wasn’t for real).


Thank you for the explanation and I agree with your explanation for the ordinary and common level of people. However, I believe reality does not have only one rule, it have many sets of rules. The facts are one of them, and just to prove my point that the mind is not the only source of knowledge. That is simple facts, if that Kenyan boy can recite the whole Quran, answer public questions and fluently speaks foreign languages in public at the age of 4-5 years old. . then we can make a conclusion that the mind is not the source of his knowledge. What can we do at the age of 4-5 years old ? Therefore, there must be an explanation and everything is subjected to the “law of causation”, the law of cause and effect, even “magic” and “talent”. However, many people tend to ignore the “law of causation” when they cannot provide the explanation.

The point is that according to the witnesses on the link I posted, the boy can’t recite the entire Quran or speak five languages, rather he can say a few verses and a few associated words in five languages.  But this is a distraction, it doesn’t support the point you want to make, but it doesn’t count against it either (my background is in math and physics so I’m very cautious about evidence).  Regarding laws of reality, I like the statement: “There are no exceptions to the natural laws that govern reality.  These laws are totally objective and exist as an interconnected whole.  The highest law is the totality of reality itself.”  In other words, I see reality as a coherent unity.  We are able to gain knowledge of different aspects of this reality across different channels, although many people confuse knowledge only with the product of the mind of concepts and language.  But this is only one of the possible channels, although other ones can be blocked by a variety of influences.

 
muslims
 
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muslims
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23 May 2014 13:31
 
burt - 23 May 2014 03:11 AM

The point is that according to the witnesses on the link I posted, the boy can’t recite the entire Quran or speak five languages, rather he can say a few verses and a few associated words in five languages.  But this is a distraction, it doesn’t support the point you want to make, but it doesn’t count against it either (my background is in math and physics so I’m very cautious about evidence).


I believe he could not have know all but the boy could have known something, he is just 4-5 years old in public appearance and not 14-15 years old. Anyway, it is just a point I want to make with some evidence to support my contention. Beyond than that, I do have real proof but there is no need for that. end.

. . .

burt - 23 May 2014 03:11 AM

Regarding laws of reality, I like the statement: “There are no exceptions to the natural laws that govern reality.  These laws are totally objective and exist as an interconnected whole.  The highest law is the totality of reality itself.”  In other words, I see reality as a coherent unity.  We are able to gain knowledge of different aspects of this reality across different channels, although many people confuse knowledge only with the product of the mind of concepts and language.  But this is only one of the possible channels, although other ones can be blocked by a variety of influences.

.

Yes I agree that “many people confuse knowledge only with the product of the mind of concepts and language”. We have been brainwashed to believe in that way through the educational system and tend to ignore other sources of knowledges. There are different channels and I believe the “antenna” for connecting to that different channels is “our heart”. . . through “language of the heart”. Nonetheless, I believe we are not living in reality until we can prove our own existence. Therefore, whatever we understand might not be the reality.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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23 May 2014 17:35
 

I watched that video.  Consider this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYA9SOJzXk

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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24 May 2014 01:12
 

We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it’s far too late, when they pass away
We were talking about the love we all could share
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love
With our love, we could save the world, if they only knew

Try to realise it’s all within yourself
No one else can make you change
And to see you’re really only very small
And life flows on within you and without you

We were talking about the love that’s gone so cold
And the people who gain the world and lose their soul
They don’t know, they can’t see, are you one of them?

When you’ve seen beyond yourself then you may find
Peace of mind is waiting there
And the time will come when you see we’re all one
And life flows on within you and without you

 
burt
 
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burt
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24 May 2014 03:53
 
EN - 23 May 2014 11:12 PM

We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it’s far too late, when they pass away
We were talking about the love we all could share
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love
With our love, we could save the world, if they only knew

Try to realise it’s all within yourself
No one else can make you change
And to see you’re really only very small
And life flows on within you and without you

We were talking about the love that’s gone so cold
And the people who gain the world and lose their soul
They don’t know, they can’t see, are you one of them?

When you’ve seen beyond yourself then you may find
Peace of mind is waiting there
And the time will come when you see we’re all one
And life flows on within you and without you

You wrote this EN?  Pretty damn good, especially for a lawyer.

 
muslims
 
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muslims
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24 May 2014 04:43
 
LadyJane - 23 May 2014 03:35 PM

I watched that video.  Consider this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYA9SOJzXk

 

Thank you for the video and I believe it is a speculation and hope to see he prove it with facts. People who dream while sleeping don’t realize that they are dreaming. They believe their dream is the truth. However, I believe the reality is before we were born into this world. That is the reality and that’s the reason that there is “death”. There should be no “death” if our present world is the reality. However to prove the reality through science is not an easy task, and it may take million of years with little success. That’s why human being need guidance and while people are seeking for scientific evidence, many have experienced the reality through other channels. Exploring and discovering new things using different technology.


. . .
magnetic field and vibration. . .

[ Edited: 24 May 2014 10:37 by muslims]
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LadyJane
 
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24 May 2014 11:23
 
muslims - 24 May 2014 02:43 AM
LadyJane - 23 May 2014 03:35 PM

I watched that video.  Consider this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYA9SOJzXk

 

Thank you for the video and I believe it is a speculation and hope to see he prove it with facts. People who dream while sleeping don’t realize that they are dreaming. They believe their dream is the truth. However, I believe the reality is before we were born into this world. That is the reality and that’s the reason that there is “death”. There should be no “death” if our present world is the reality. However to prove the reality through science is not an easy task, and it may take million of years with little success. That’s why human being need guidance and while people are seeking for scientific evidence, many have experienced the reality through other channels. Exploring and discovering new things using different technology.

And still we must navigate our way through this reality whether it’s an illusion or not. What purpose does it serve to subscribe to the notion that nothing exists in reality?  What would become of humanity if everyone adhered to this way of thinking?  Descartes never said there was nothing out there, he said he can’t prove there’s anything out there.  There’s a world of difference and we’ve come a long way in four hundred years as we continue charting the heavens.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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24 May 2014 11:40
 
burt - 24 May 2014 01:53 AM
EN - 23 May 2014 11:12 PM

We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it’s far too late, when they pass away
We were talking about the love we all could share
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love
With our love, we could save the world, if they only knew

Try to realise it’s all within yourself
No one else can make you change
And to see you’re really only very small
And life flows on within you and without you

We were talking about the love that’s gone so cold
And the people who gain the world and lose their soul
They don’t know, they can’t see, are you one of them?

When you’ve seen beyond yourself then you may find
Peace of mind is waiting there
And the time will come when you see we’re all one
And life flows on within you and without you

You wrote this EN?  Pretty damn good, especially for a lawyer.

If I had written that, I would be a multi-millionaire today. It’s a Beatles song, Within you and Without you, written by George Harrison, off of the Sgt. Pepper Album, 1966.

 
muslims
 
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24 May 2014 13:28
 
LadyJane - 24 May 2014 09:23 AM

And still we must navigate our way through this reality whether it’s an illusion or not. What purpose does it serve to subscribe to the notion that nothing exists in reality?  What would become of humanity if everyone adhered to this way of thinking? Descartes never said there was nothing out there, he said he can’t prove there’s anything out there.  There’s a world of difference and we’ve come a long way in four hundred years as we continue charting the heavens.

 

To become “God” . . .it is “1” and it is “0”, it is not “1” and “1”. . .

      “Say: ‘Allah is Ahad (One)” (112.1)

      Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4)

and to become God in the sense that performing God duties to protect life and mankind etc. . .


. . .


First Premise:

Now look at the following pictures . . they are praying.

Do you think God will answer their prayers ?
Did God bring them food ?

No. .it is not God who answer their prayers or bring them food.
It is we who must answer their prayers. . .
It is human beings who bring them food and feed them . . . this is clear facts.

If God feed people or answer people prayers, then I want to see the proof.


. . .

muslims - 10 May 2014 10:34 PM

I’m a Muslim from Malaysia but I don’t believe in religion and God.


Second Premise: Allah is not God

The following is from the Quran, and Allah is not God. Allah used the word “God” because human beings only understand the concept of “gods” for creations. However, all references of Allah must be subjected to the following “definition provision”.  It is a chapter or provision that defines what is Allah. Similarly, we have a “The Interpretation Act 1978 (UK)”, “The Interpretation Act 1987 (NSW)”, or an interpretation provision in every statutory acts; ; “In this Act the following words and expressions are used in the following senses, unless a contrary intention appears from the context”; Section 2 in every statutory legislation, or an interpretation clause in every Contracts.

.

According to the hadith, people asked what is Allah and this is the answer. . . .


      “Say: ‘Allah is Ahad (One)”
      Allah is Samad
      He begets not. Nor was he begotten.
      Nor is there to Him any equivalent

      [112:1-4]

.

“Say: ‘Allah is Ahad (One)”

      Allah is Ahad:
      That is, Allah is Oneness
      There is nothing in existence other than Him
      Allah has no boundary
      and cannot be broken down into parts or fragments
      Nothing is within the micro or macro realms of existence
      and there is no inside or outside Allah

      Therefore, where can this external god that is other than the Ahad Allah be?

      Inside or outside of Allah?

.

Allah is Samad

      A whole without any void or emptiness
      impermeable
      nothing penetrates into it
      nothing extends out from it
      Allah has no boundary
      and if something has no boundaries it cannot have a center
      It is impossible for Allah to have a center
      It also follows that something without a center cannot have a core or shell, an interior or an exterior

.

He begets not. (No other form of existence has ever originated from Him, thus, there is no other)
Nor was he begotten. (There is no other god or form of existence from which He could have originated)

      Allah has not created another being from Himself
      and no other being has originated into existence from the existence of Allah
      Allah is Ahad, ie. the indivisible ONE,
      Therefore it is not possible for another form of existence to have originated from Allah
      even if it is with Allah’s qualities

      Allah is not begotten
      and this clearly means that Allah did not originate from another being

      How can Allah have originated by another being or created another being from Himself if Allah is Ahad?

.

Nor is there to Him any equivalent

      There is none like Him
      Nothing in the micro or macro planes of existence is equivalent or in resemblance of Him
      There are no concepts or ideas that can resemble or explain Allah; ie. the concept of Godhood (duality)
      Allah is AHAD

.

Similarly. . the following verse describe what is Allah

    Allah is the light
    (24:35)


Allah is not God. . . 

    And when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated,
    except for Iblees
    He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
    2.30


. . .

Lastly , the Quran describes the universe and follows by saying that meeting with (or knowing) Allah is possible.
It indicates that if we want Allah to reveal himself to us then we have to study the universe, scrutinize every object in it,
and through observation and experiment, discover the laws governing this system through the right channels, “1” and “0”.


    It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you see
    then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon
    each running [its course] for a specified term.
      He arranges matter;
      He details the signs that you may,
      of the meeting with your Lord, be certain.
    (13.2)


. . .

From a God who thinks like a man
to a man who thinks like God!

[ Edited: 24 May 2014 14:02 by muslims]
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burt
 
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burt
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24 May 2014 14:43
 
EN - 24 May 2014 09:40 AM
burt - 24 May 2014 01:53 AM
EN - 23 May 2014 11:12 PM

We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth, then it’s far too late, when they pass away
We were talking about the love we all could share
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love
With our love, we could save the world, if they only knew

Try to realise it’s all within yourself
No one else can make you change
And to see you’re really only very small
And life flows on within you and without you

We were talking about the love that’s gone so cold
And the people who gain the world and lose their soul
They don’t know, they can’t see, are you one of them?

When you’ve seen beyond yourself then you may find
Peace of mind is waiting there
And the time will come when you see we’re all one
And life flows on within you and without you

You wrote this EN?  Pretty damn good, especially for a lawyer.

If I had written that, I would be a multi-millionaire today. It’s a Beatles song, Within you and Without you, written by George Harrison, off of the Sgt. Pepper Album, 1966.

Ah, missed the quote marks and attribution.  Sneaky, you were probably high on Lone Star at the time of posting.

 
EN
 
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EN
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25 May 2014 00:56
 
burt - 24 May 2014 12:43 PM

Ah, missed the quote marks and attribution.  Sneaky, you were probably high on Lone Star at the time of posting.

My actual thought at the time was “should I quote and attribute, or just post and see how many recognize it.”  Since I wasn’t writing a dissertation or for publication, I went for the latter.  Buddha probably would not approve.

 
burt
 
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burt
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25 May 2014 05:21
 
EN - 24 May 2014 10:56 PM
burt - 24 May 2014 12:43 PM

Ah, missed the quote marks and attribution.  Sneaky, you were probably high on Lone Star at the time of posting.

My actual thought at the time was “should I quote and attribute, or just post and see how many recognize it.”  Since I wasn’t writing a dissertation or for publication, I went for the latter.  Buddha probably would not approve.

And caught me out.  Shame on me.  Fortunately Buddha wasn’t watching and hasn’t yet read this thread.

 
MARTIN_UK
 
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25 May 2014 09:48
 

Can you be sure… wink

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