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Spirit, Mind and Body distinction

 
Agua
 
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Agua
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17 April 2012 03:16
 
saralynn - 16 April 2012 09:22 AM

AGUA:  I would like to know if more people are interested about this research on scientific and philosophical basis, i.e. reason ground.

I’m interested and I think there have been and are studies being done.  From all that I’ve read, brain function is responsible for all forms of cognition.  BUt, it’s all very mysterious because no one really understands how consciousness is created….how “meat becomes mind”.

I had a very close friend who “popped” out of her body every now and then.  She’d be sitting on the couch, then she’d be zapped out of her body and float up to the ceiling.  She mentioned the silver cord and everything.  She’s was also a farmer-type, rather than an New-Agey type.  She talked to her pastor about it.  He said it was satanic, so she got scared and immediately returned to her body whenever it happened.  It eventually ceased to occur.

—-

Thank you very much for sharing this interest and story with me.  That’s exactly these kinds of experiences which inspire me in this research direction.  I have read quite a lot of stories of people who have had this type of out-of-body experience.  Many report things which could not have been perceived by the body senses or perceptions because being beyond body perceptics reach, be it sounds, sights, or else.  And this opens a door to this consciousness / brain-body separateness hypothesis.  If this hypothesis were to go in the truth direction, that would be very worthwhile to discover more about what we are exactly as human beings…

[ Edited: 17 April 2012 15:19 by Agua]
 
eudemonia
 
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eudemonia
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17 April 2012 12:37
 

All coherent scientific hypotheses go in the ‘truth’ direction.

What you present is simply an argument from incredulity.

 
 
TheBrotherMario
 
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TheBrotherMario
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19 April 2012 10:55
 

“What we are exactly as human beings?”

This is your question that you, Agua, supposedly sincerely ask.

Yet you look for the answer to this question by only accepting certain language, language of a scientific manner, and ignoring all the answers to this question that have been put forth through philosophical and theological discipline.

This means what we are as human beings must fit into the same criteria of “being” as what a rock is, or no criteria at all.

And, this means your question will never be answered by you, or all the king’s horses and all the king’s men.

Oh, by the way, I answered your question above, but the truth of “who we are” slipped through your mind like agua slips through cracks in a floor.

 
 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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19 April 2012 11:16
 

I’ve mentioned before in this place that when I was younger I had ‘out of body experiences’. I found them quite enjoyable but I have absolutely no doubt that they resulted from something chemical/neurological.  What was happening was happening in my brain and nowere else. There was nothing spooky or supernatural about those experiences. They are not evidence of anything beyond us. You can do the same trick with LSD or even good dope. So for all those who are hoping for some connection to ‘the other side’ all I can say is get over it. There’s fucking nothing there.

Except Mario. What a nighmare!

[ Edited: 19 April 2012 11:19 by robbrownsyd]
 
Mike78
 
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Mike78
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19 April 2012 14:36
 
Agua - 16 April 2012 03:19 AM

I think the hypothesis of consciousness being a separate entity from the brain deserves a whole effort of scientific research.  When one consider many reliably official reports of out-of-the-body manifestation of consciousness, I consider there is more than enough evidence, real facts to constitute an excellent ground for scientific research on this consciousness/body separateness hypothesis. For this reason, I think neuroscience would not necessarily be enough to allow investigation in this direction.  First reason to this being it limits itself to brain study as far as I know.  Second reason would be that neuroscience seems to consider too often (a priori) consciousness to be in the brain by the simple logic that when you kill the brain, consciousness seems to have disappeared.  But what if the brain was just a complex interface between consciousness unit and the body ?  The same symptoms would be true, killing the brain would apparently stop any consciousness bodily manifestation.  Now as I said earlier, there are a lot of real facts (not faith-based at all) evidence of enough phenomenon to seriously give ground to the hypothesis of spirit or consciousness being possibly distinct from brain/body.  I would like to know if more people are interested about this research on scientific and philosophical basis, i.e. reason ground.

Absolutely.  Let’s dive into this.  First we’ll have to develop tools for scientific measurement of the “out of body” experience….  Wait.  If we develop some kind of “out of body” meter, where do we point it?  How do we take our tools into “out of body” space?  My PKE Meter is powered by batteries that seem to be more “in body” than not. 

If we solve that problem and get results, how do with “think” about them?  Do we have to be “out of body” to do so?  Can we build an “out of body” laboratory where people can go to work on these really serious matters?  I don’t think commuting will be an issue.  Does an “out of body” measurement translate to “in body” consideration by use of a brain though? 

However we answer these questions, and wherever they take us, I hope we get there in something like the Ghostbusters’ mobile. 

Thank you Dr. Spengler.  That will be all.

[ Edited: 19 April 2012 14:39 by Mike78]
 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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19 April 2012 15:05
 

LOL Nice!

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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19 April 2012 19:24
 
can zen - 17 April 2012 12:24 AM

Brother Mario claims that each of us is just a “temporal seat” for god, isn’t that sweet! I will likewise claim that Brother Mario is just a “momentary ass” for god, not so sweet!

Well put.

 
 
TheBrotherMario
 
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TheBrotherMario
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19 April 2012 22:50
 

Rob kisses Mike’s ass, then Dennis kisses can zen’s ass, and on and on.

You boys are creating a chain of ass-kissing links without one of them deserved.

Rob says there’s no spiritual world because HE found none. Well, that’s proof now, isn’t it?

Dennis gives accolades to a poster who doesn’t have a philosophical bone in his body, so therefore doesn’t UNDERSTAND what a “seat” for a power is. So the poster lamely ridiculed me out of nothing else he could do, but that’s enough for praise from Dennis. Well, that’s a true endorsement now, isn’t it?

 
 
Mike78
 
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Mike78
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20 April 2012 00:24
 
TheBrotherMario - 19 April 2012 08:50 PM

Rob kisses Mike’s ass, then Dennis kisses can zen’s ass, and on and on.

You boys are creating a chain of ass-kissing links without one of them deserved.

Rob says there’s no spiritual world because HE found none. Well, that’s proof now, isn’t it?

Dennis gives accolades to a poster who doesn’t have a philosophical bone in his body, so therefore doesn’t UNDERSTAND what a “seat” for a power is. So the poster lamely ridiculed me out of nothing else he could do, but that’s enough for praise from Dennis. Well, that’s a true endorsement now, isn’t it?

Who let you out of the locker?

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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20 April 2012 02:24
 
Mike78 - 19 April 2012 10:24 PM
TheBrotherMario - 19 April 2012 08:50 PM

Rob kisses Mike’s ass, then Dennis kisses can zen’s ass, and on and on.

You boys are creating a chain of ass-kissing links without one of them deserved.

Rob says there’s no spiritual world because HE found none. Well, that’s proof now, isn’t it?

Dennis gives accolades to a poster who doesn’t have a philosophical bone in his body, so therefore doesn’t UNDERSTAND what a “seat” for a power is. So the poster lamely ridiculed me out of nothing else he could do, but that’s enough for praise from Dennis. Well, that’s a true endorsement now, isn’t it?

Who let you out of the locker?

Mike 78.  Fuck you.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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20 April 2012 02:27
 
Dennis Campbell - 20 April 2012 12:24 AM
Mike78 - 19 April 2012 10:24 PM
TheBrotherMario - 19 April 2012 08:50 PM

Rob kisses Mike’s ass, then Dennis kisses can zen’s ass, and on and on.

You boys are creating a chain of ass-kissing links without one of them deserved.

Rob says there’s no spiritual world because HE found none. Well, that’s proof now, isn’t it?

Dennis gives accolades to a poster who doesn’t have a philosophical bone in his body, so therefore doesn’t UNDERSTAND what a “seat” for a power is. So the poster lamely ridiculed me out of nothing else he could do, but that’s enough for praise from Dennis. Well, that’s a true endorsement now, isn’t it?

Who let you out of the locker?

Mike 78.  Fuck you.

You do realize he was talking to BM not you, right?

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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20 April 2012 02:46
 
GAD - 20 April 2012 12:27 AM

You do realize he was talking to BM not you, right?

Dennis seems to be intent on being a scary personality lately—with an emphasis on “seems.”

 
 
Agua
 
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Agua
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20 April 2012 04:11
 
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 19 April 2012 09:16 AM

I’ve mentioned before in this place that when I was younger I had ‘out of body experiences’. I found them quite enjoyable but I have absolutely no doubt that they resulted from something chemical/neurological.  What was happening was happening in my brain and nowere else. There was nothing spooky or supernatural about those experiences. They are not evidence of anything beyond us. You can do the same trick with LSD or even good dope. So for all those who are hoping for some connection to ‘the other side’ all I can say is get over it. There’s fucking nothing there.

Except Mario. What a nighmare!

As a matter of fact, I think that when someone has an out-of-body experience where he perceives things far from reach of any of the known body senses, it becomes difficult to explain these perceptions by brain or body capabilities.  This is why I find these NDE or other out-of-body experiences quite interesting, because they tend to indicate some other reality beyond the usual human being limits we are used to.  Now, I am not saying we can conclude anything solid yet from these amazing perceptions, but the indication there would be a possibly fruitful track to follow if using scientific methods to tend to discover more of our nature is then obvious to me.  I dont think we can assert there is nothing there which would be more than usual human limits we are used to.

[ Edited: 20 April 2012 05:00 by Agua]
 
Agua
 
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Agua
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20 April 2012 04:22
 
Mike78 - 19 April 2012 12:36 PM
Agua - 16 April 2012 03:19 AM

I think the hypothesis of consciousness being a separate entity from the brain deserves a whole effort of scientific research.  When one consider many reliably official reports of out-of-the-body manifestation of consciousness, I consider there is more than enough evidence, real facts to constitute an excellent ground for scientific research on this consciousness/body separateness hypothesis. For this reason, I think neuroscience would not necessarily be enough to allow investigation in this direction.  First reason to this being it limits itself to brain study as far as I know.  Second reason would be that neuroscience seems to consider too often (a priori) consciousness to be in the brain by the simple logic that when you kill the brain, consciousness seems to have disappeared.  But what if the brain was just a complex interface between consciousness unit and the body ?  The same symptoms would be true, killing the brain would apparently stop any consciousness bodily manifestation.  Now as I said earlier, there are a lot of real facts (not faith-based at all) evidence of enough phenomenon to seriously give ground to the hypothesis of spirit or consciousness being possibly distinct from brain/body.  I would like to know if more people are interested about this research on scientific and philosophical basis, i.e. reason ground.

Absolutely.  Let’s dive into this.  First we’ll have to develop tools for scientific measurement of the “out of body” experience….  Wait.  If we develop some kind of “out of body” meter, where do we point it?  How do we take our tools into “out of body” space?  My PKE Meter is powered by batteries that seem to be more “in body” than not. 

If we solve that problem and get results, how do with “think” about them?  Do we have to be “out of body” to do so?  Can we build an “out of body” laboratory where people can go to work on these really serious matters?  I don’t think commuting will be an issue.  Does an “out of body” measurement translate to “in body” consideration by use of a brain though? 

However we answer these questions, and wherever they take us, I hope we get there in something like the Ghostbusters’ mobile. 

Thank you Dr. Spengler.  That will be all.

Well, as we dont know what could be the physical nature of consciousness out of the body a priori, why not develop meters of the various kinds of energy fields we know of already and try to measure around the body.  That’s just an idea, with no solid basis yet, of course, but what you say about the Ghostbusters’ mobile could very well give the tone.  I mean, the hypothesis is sound to me because of real testimonies of people who had those out-of-body experiences or NDEs and who were confirmed by official people like Jean Morzelle’s surgeon for instance.  I cannot see any explanation based on brain functions in this kind of case.  Especially since the brain is recorded as totally dead by intruments in these cases.  But the guy eventually came back to life and could tell us about those perceptions which could be verified.  I am not interested in any of the perceptions which could not be verified, of course, as be it true or not, nobody else can tell.

[ Edited: 20 April 2012 04:25 by Agua]
 
TheBrotherMario
 
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TheBrotherMario
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20 April 2012 10:11
 

Dennis’ true personality is oozing out over time. He writes from time to time about how he is only an old curmudgeon who is sometimes wrong. But the truth is, he sees himself as highly educated and respected, and the best poster around. He most likely has been an intolerable bore his whole life. Now, after years on Project Reason, he is attempting to loosen up and be a “regular guy”. Too late. He comes off as a “creepy guy” more than anything.

And, his posts are mostly regurgitations of what he read that day or remembered from past readings.

 
 
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