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Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for ‘Blasphemy’

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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21 August 2012 16:24
 

Another heart warming Muslim story from the religion of peace.

Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for ‘Blasphemy’

 
 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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21 August 2012 16:30
 
GAD - 21 August 2012 02:24 PM

Another heart warming Muslim story from the religion of peace.

Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for ‘Blasphemy’

Ah, the tender mercies of religion! So conducive to the wellbeing of conscious creatures.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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21 August 2012 17:14
 
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 21 August 2012 02:30 PM
GAD - 21 August 2012 02:24 PM

Another heart warming Muslim story from the religion of peace.

Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for ‘Blasphemy’

Ah, the tender mercies of religion! So conducive to the wellbeing of conscious creatures.

Religion Poisons Everything…..

 
 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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23 August 2012 22:24
 

She’s a child AND possibly mentally retarded? Good God. Even if you accept the ridiculous notion that “blasphemy” is a crime, that’s seriously fucked up.

But hey, we atheists are the bad ones. Why don’t we just let the faithful enjoy their beliefs without getting all worked up? Why do we insist on getting all worked up about other people’s beliefs?

 
 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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23 August 2012 23:43
 

Yeah, silly isn’t it. I mean, it’s not as if their beliefs can effect us? If they want to stone their retarded girl children to death in the village square why should it bother us? Wouldn’t we be better off just minding our own business rather than impinging on the rights of others to practice their religion ? Perhaps excessive zeal on our part prevents us from seeing reason on this issue.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2012 00:21
 

I loved this part;

The accusations, made by the girl’s neighbors in a mixed Christian-Muslim neighborhood, sent area Muslims into a fury, with some police reports suggesting an angry mob of hundreds of men descended on her home demanding authorities arrest her and charge her with blasphemy.

They then allegedly went on a rampage, attacking the girl’s family and setting Christian houses on fire. The girl’s parents are now in protective custody and, according to reports, several Christian families have left the neighborhood, an impoverished district in the country’s capital, Islamabad.

A mob of hundreds went on a rampage….....

 
 
Jezuz_Alrighty
 
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24 August 2012 14:37
 

This was meant to frighten Christians about the evils of Islam I think.. Poor old Christians are getting it from both ends.  I don’t know which is worse. Muslims seem a bit on the edgy side and will kill you for being a non believer. Most of them are across the ocean though Christians are a bit more laid back and will only ridicule you and picket your funeral. But they are right next door. Guess its a coin toss.

 
 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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24 August 2012 14:47
 

Yeah, they’re all crazy. That’s what religion does for you. It can really fuck people’s lives up. In fact the lives of whole nations. Whole worlds.

 
goodgraydrab
 
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goodgraydrab
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24 August 2012 19:14
 
bigredfutbol - 23 August 2012 08:24 PM

But hey, we atheists are the bad ones. Why don’t we just let the faithful enjoy their beliefs without getting all worked up? Why do we insist on getting all worked up about other people’s beliefs?

Because you’re not just an Atheist, you’re also a Humanist and a Liberal relying on the power of science, reason and compassion to guide you. You’re like Doctors Without Borders, only you’re a Reasonist Without Borders.

 
 
Mike78
 
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Mike78
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27 August 2012 13:52
 

Ah, yes.  The religion of peace and all of its wonderful adherents.  Praise allah.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/afghans-found-beheaded_n_1832338.html

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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27 August 2012 15:08
 
Mike78 - 27 August 2012 11:52 AM

Ah, yes.  The religion of peace and all of its wonderful adherents.  Praise allah.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/afghans-found-beheaded_n_1832338.html

Indeed. The world is a better place having men in it who chop peoples heads off for dancing.

 
 
Mike78
 
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27 August 2012 17:16
 
GAD - 27 August 2012 01:08 PM
Mike78 - 27 August 2012 11:52 AM

Ah, yes.  The religion of peace and all of its wonderful adherents.  Praise allah.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/afghans-found-beheaded_n_1832338.html

Indeed. The world is a better place having men in it who chop peoples heads off for dancing.

Wait until these Taliban meet Akbar (Kevin) Bacon….

 
Matt Polofka
 
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Matt Polofka
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04 September 2012 01:01
 

Wow, so burning pages of a book isn’t as bad as burning houses to some people. This kind of stuff makes evangelicals look rational.

 
Koranist
 
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31 January 2013 09:32
 
GAD - 21 August 2012 02:24 PM

Another heart warming Muslim story from the religion of peace.

Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for ‘Blasphemy’

This is actually an interesting topic. I have dealt with this issue before. Unfortunantly it seems that many people here have fell in love with this Islam probably because its easy to criticize. One of the problems I have found with many critics of Islam is that they often highlight a certain brand of Islam as the authentic one which they find easy to attack. The Taliban, wahhabi kind of Islam. Their idea is that by highlighting Islam as such this will persuade people to either apostate from islam or to dislike religion in general. Christians also tend to follow that route. This strategy may be succesfull with non Muslims but its a losing strategy with Muslims. Most Muslims will find the idea of leaving Islam as too drastic and will rather play the “these are a small minority” argument for themselves. This explains why even Muslim migrants to the West are not influenced by many anti Islam arguments.

The real solution is to present an alternative Islam. Something that many critics of Islam either do not want to believe can exist or do not know it exists.

Going back to the issue. The issue you raised is inportant in that it highlights a very important distinction between Sunni/Shia sectarian Islam and the Quran. The Sunni/Shia Islam emerged two centuries after the Quran during the Abbasid Empire relying heavily on what they refer to as the “Sunnah” which are oral tradition they claim which were paased down by Muhammad as a suppliment to the Quran. The sects claim these oral traditions are a revelation alongside the Quran. So in that they are very similar to Judaism and the Talmud. Most Muslims do not know too much about the Sunnah or hadiths as they are understood and simply assume that these traditions are in conformity with the Quran and represent the prophetic tradition. In reality they are radically different in many ways to the Quran. The sects claimed that these oral traditions were in the hnads of a few authorities and were not available to the general public. The sects each had their own collectors of these hadiths as they are called which then they formulated to what we know today as Shariah law. They claimed by tracing the chain of narrators of these hadiths they can establish their reliability by being able to trace those hadiths to Muhammad himself or his disciples. They called that the science of hadith.

One such way is the question of accountability. The sects believe in whats known as parental authority. Where parents can make religious decision for their children like circumcission and forcing them to pray. Something you will never find in the Quran. The hadith of Muhammad’s supposed marriage to Aisha when she was under age is a case point of that. The idea here is that parents make such decisions on behalf of their children. This is a very tribal custom where parents often treat their children as private property. Aisha in that hadith never had a say in that marriage since she was too young to make such decisions. However the Quranic commands were never designed for anyone under age. So when the Quran speaks of marriage it speaks to the person who is making that decision and not anyone else. It establishes certain criterias for that individual to follow in terms of marriage. These Quranic commands and criterias were not designed except for someone who understands what the Quran is saying. So the Quran is concerned with mental maturity and not just physical maturity as we see in Islam or Judaism. Which is why they allowed under age marriage. Circumcission is another important point. Muslim believe in circumcising their male children often when they are still children. Judaism has the same thing. The Quran can not make such commands as its concerned about people doing things based on faith and choice. Something children can not do.

I think this cocnept has now extended to the blasphemy case we see. That is Islamic authorities often look to see if a person is physically mature. In women’s case they look for menstruation beginings to detect when they believe she is physically mature. However menstraution time does not indicate mental maturity.

Another difference is with government authority versus individual authority. The Quran always gives the accountability to the individual when it comes to religious commands. The sects give many of that authority to the state or to parents. They did that by extending the prophetic authority higher than what the Quran allowed the prophet and then transfering that authority to the Muslim ruler by default. The changing of the Quranic concept of war for defensive purpose only to offensive purposes by narrating supposed hadith were Muhamamad was reported to have said that “i was ordered to fight the people till they procalim that God is one” is a good example of that. This hadith violates more than 30 Quranic verses that limits the prophet’s authority to spreading the message and warning the people. Only when somebody infringes on somebody else’s right did the Quran allow him to hold others accountable such as murder, manslaughter, robbery etc. The sects generally believe that any sin can be persecuted by the state. The Quran gives no such authority. It seperates between a sin and a crime. Often the state can hold a person accountability by just looking if he or she is phycally mature usually by seeing signs of puberty.

I think what happened is the ruling dynasties wanted absolute authority and they managed to create an Islam that allowed that by first transfering the divine authority reserved only to God in the Quran to the prophet. And then from there its an easy short step to transfer that authority to the Muslim ruler by default. Because if the prophet’s has limited authority and can not impose himself on others or coercethem than how can the ruler enjoy absolute authority. Prisoners of war is another major difference. The Quran allowed the prophet two options, either freeing them or imposing a ransom of some sort. The sects came up with hadiths that gave two other options. For the female captives they can be sold as slaves and for the male they can also be excecuted. Hence now the ruler has life and death authority over prisoners of war. This probably was seen as a way to counter the Byzantinians whose rulers enjoyed life and death powers often by the blessing of the Church. The Quran only allowed capital punishment for premediated murder ( a soul for a soul) but allowed exile from the community as an lower punishment. The sects added adultery and apostasy and some even homosexuality as punishable by death if the ruler decides. This violated the eye for an eye and proprtional justice the Quran commanded. The Quran believes any punihsmnet should equal the crime. Islam allowed harsher punishment by invoking deterence as a goal where harsh punihsment can eb allowed if it can act as a deterence. Judaism allowed Jews disproportionate justice. So Islam changed the eye for an eye law to an eye for an eye lash while Judaism changed that to a Jewish eye for a thousand gentile eye. The Islamic authorities did that by hadiths while Judaism did that by the Talmud.

Jesus as we know attacked the Talmud and so did the Koran.

Thanks.

[ Edited: 31 January 2013 10:06 by Koranist]
 
GAD
 
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31 January 2013 15:49
 

There simply is no “good” Islam. Like all religions Islam is founded on ignorance, myth, magic and superstition and no amount words, history or excuses can change that.

 
 
Koranist
 
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04 February 2013 07:59
 
GAD - 31 January 2013 02:49 PM

There simply is no “good” Islam. Like all religions Islam is founded on ignorance, myth, magic and superstition and no amount words, history or excuses can change that.

Right. Actually for me religion is about faith and nothing else. I am not interested about what is good or not but what is Quranic or not. But you are right that religion can only be believed in through faith and nothing else. The Quran talks about angels and devils and even jinns. It talked about Solomon having command of the jinns and understanding animals talk like ants. David had command of the winds. Jesus rose the dead and treated sickness and turned a clay to living life. Moses seperated the ocean and turned a rod to a snake. It talked about how angels record all our deeds big and small and that this will presented to us on judgement day. Judgement day is talked about in the Quran abundantly. None of this can be believed except by faith.

For me the issue is whats Koranic and whats not. As far as whats good or bad thats very subjective.

 
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