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Determinism and moral responsibility

 
Cioran
 
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Cioran
Total Posts:  258
Joined  06-03-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 15:12
 

There was an old man, a total buffoon
Who wrote of God turning on the sun at noon.
His book is wretched shit
But you can purchase it
From his daughter, the woo-woo loon.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
Total Posts:  6424
Joined  22-02-2005
 
 
 
18 April 2013 15:33
 

WELCOME to FUN with the FINAL LAP GAME


As moderators, we struggle with moral dilemmas all the time. Like, how to take any moderator action at all without being compared to Hilter and Pol Pot. So, when we find moral clarity, we jump on it.

Here’s how it works.

A thread that has descended into personal taunts only will be shut down. That’s the Moral Imperative behind the game.


At the end of this lap, if there a page: any page: of nothing but bile and taunts, this thread will be shut down FOREVER and every poster on that page will be suspended or banned. Exciting, yes?


PeaceJar has been deleting her massive quote box content and shifting the other post boxes around like a little plastic puzzle of moving squares. That’s the right idea.


Good Luck, Posters!

Clue: there already is such a page. Dum-da-dum-dum!

[ Edited: 18 April 2013 15:40 by Nhoj Morley]
 
 
Cioran
 
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Cioran
Total Posts:  258
Joined  06-03-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 15:48
 

Well, that’s fine. We can easily return to substance and content.

Peacegirl, according to Lessans, if God turned on the sun at noon, then people would see it immediately, without having to wait for the photons to take eight minutes to get to earth, because the photons would be at the sun and people would see them.

As previously noted, we can test this claim.

It takes light 1.25 seconds to travel from earth to moon, and from moon to earth.

We fire a laser at the moon.

Lessans predicts that we should see the laser spot on the moon 1.25 seconds after firing the laser, because the light is at the moon and therefore visible.

Science predicts that it would take 2.5 seconds to see the spot of light on the moon, because it has to make the round trip from earth to moon and then back from moon to earth. This means we are seeing the moon as it was 1.25 seconds in the past, contrary to Lessans’ claim of real-time seeing.

We run the experiment, and science is right and Lessans wrong.

We await your response.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
Total Posts:  6424
Joined  22-02-2005
 
 
 
18 April 2013 15:57
 

The problem here, Mr. Cioran, is that you are up against my idea of substance and content and, while that is unfairly personal, you can be assured that those standards reflect the tone and general demeanor of the clientele based my long experience with them. And that could be a problem.

Best of luck to you. Watch the lap counter.

 
 
Cioran
 
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Cioran
Total Posts:  258
Joined  06-03-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 16:16
 

My posts asking her about how light and sight work are directly germane to the claims in the book. So have been my other discussions on relativity theory, quantum indeterminacy, the Fizeau wheel, how we calculate the speed of light via observations of the moons of Jupiter, measurements first conducted several hundreds of years ago, and etc.

I’d suggest the problems here are not my posts, or those of us other “newbs” from the Other Place—most of us have contributed to other threads. The problem, if there is one, is that the thread starter is void of content. If that’s the problem, as it seems to be, why not just lock the thread? I assure you, if you don’t, it will go on for years, as it did at iidb and is still going on at FF, having recently celebrated its second birthday, alas without a cake.  cheese

I don’t see why anyone has to be banned, particularly when there has been substantive comment in this thread (just not from Halo/peacegirl).

 
Halo2040
 
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Halo2040
Total Posts:  156
Joined  28-01-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 16:25
 
Nhoj Morley - 18 April 2013 01:33 PM

WELCOME to FUN with the FINAL LAP GAME


As moderators, we struggle with moral dilemmas all the time. Like, how to take any moderator action at all without being compared to Hilter and Pol Pot. So, when we find moral clarity, we jump on it.

Here’s how it works.

A thread that has descended into personal taunts only will be shut down. That’s the Moral Imperative behind the game.


At the end of this lap, if there a page: any page: of nothing but bile and taunts, this thread will be shut down FOREVER and every poster on that page will be suspended or banned. Exciting, yes?


PeaceJar has been deleting her massive quote box content and shifting the other post boxes around like a little plastic puzzle of moving squares. That’s the right idea.


Good Luck, Posters!

Clue: there already is such a page. Dum-da-dum-dum!

Thank you!  I don’t know if anyone here has any questions related to his first discovery, but keeping the taunts at bay will at least give this thread a chance, not that I’m staying.  ohh

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
Total Posts:  6424
Joined  22-02-2005
 
 
 
18 April 2013 16:27
 

Watch out gamesters! PeaceJar can push the lap counter over with those damn quote boxes!


By the way, this is a taunt…

anyone here has any questions related to his first discovery

 

...because we know where it leads.

[ Edited: 18 April 2013 16:30 by Nhoj Morley]
 
 
Halo2040
 
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Halo2040
Total Posts:  156
Joined  28-01-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 16:32
 
Cioran - 18 April 2013 01:48 PM

Well, that’s fine. We can easily return to substance and content.

Peacegirl, according to Lessans, if God turned on the sun at noon, then people would see it immediately, without having to wait for the photons to take eight minutes to get to earth, because the photons would be at the sun and people would see them.

Halo:  The object would already be in optical range if the eyes work the way Lessans’ observed.  That’s why he said the only thing necessary for sight is for the object to be bright enough which does not require the image (coming from light) to travel over long distances. 

David (aka Cioran):  As previously noted, we can test this claim.

It takes light 1.25 seconds to travel from earth to moon, and from moon to earth.

We fire a laser at the moon.

Lessans predicts that we should see the laser spot on the moon 1.25 seconds after firing the laser, because the light is at the moon and therefore visible.
Science predicts that it would take 2.5 seconds to see the spot of light on the moon, because it has to make the round trip from earth to moon and then back from moon to earth. This means we are seeing the moon as it was 1.25 seconds in the past, contrary to Lessans’ claim of real-time seeing.

We run the experiment, and science is right and Lessans wrong.

We await your response.

Halo:  I answered this.  There is no way that a person can discern what he sees in 1.25 seconds.  Not only that, but no one would be able to see the moon if the only light was a laser.  How could that be bright enough for someone to see an object that far away?

 
 
Cioran
 
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Cioran
Total Posts:  258
Joined  06-03-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 16:46
 
halo2040 - 18 April 2013 02:32 PM

Halo:  I answered this.  There is no way that a person can discern what he sees in 1.25 seconds.  Not only that, but no one would be able to see the moon if the only light was a laser.  How could that be bright enough for someone to see an object that far away?

Wrong.

Oh, well!

Remember we linked this page to you at FF?

 
MARTIN_UK
 
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MARTIN_UK
Total Posts:  4914
Joined  19-08-2010
 
 
 
18 April 2013 17:25
 
Nhoj Morley - 18 April 2013 01:33 PM

WELCOME to FUN with the FINAL LAP GAME

At the end of this lap, if there a page: any page: of nothing but bile and taunts, this thread will be shut down FOREVER and every poster on that page will be suspended or banned. Exciting, yes?

I won’t post just in case it’s me on such a page… don’t want to commit cyber seppuku… oh shit!.. I may just have done!!

 
Halo2040
 
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Halo2040
Total Posts:  156
Joined  28-01-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 17:27
 
Cioran - 18 April 2013 02:46 PM
halo2040 - 18 April 2013 02:32 PM

Halo:  I answered this.  There is no way that a person can discern what he sees in 1.25 seconds.  Not only that, but no one would be able to see the moon if the only light was a laser.  How could that be bright enough for someone to see an object that far away?

Wrong.

Oh, well!

Remember we linked this page to you at FF?

What does this experiment have to do with the subject under discussion?

 
 
Halo2040
 
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Halo2040
Total Posts:  156
Joined  28-01-2013
 
 
 
18 April 2013 17:32
 
MARTIN UK - 18 April 2013 03:25 PM
Nhoj Morley - 18 April 2013 01:33 PM

WELCOME to FUN with the FINAL LAP GAME

At the end of this lap, if there a page: any page: of nothing but bile and taunts, this thread will be shut down FOREVER and every poster on that page will be suspended or banned. Exciting, yes?

I won’t post just in case it’s me on such a page… don’t want to commit cyber seppuku… oh shit!.. I may just have done!!

Why won’t you post here?  I doubt if you would say anything worthy of suspension.  This thread certainly needs some new blood.  I don’t know what you’re worldview is but why don’t you throw me a question related to determinism as a starting point, so this thread will have not been a total waste.

 
 
MARTIN_UK
 
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MARTIN_UK
Total Posts:  4914
Joined  19-08-2010
 
 
 
18 April 2013 17:56
 
halo2040 - 18 April 2013 03:32 PM

Why won’t you post here?  I doubt if you would say anything worthy of suspension.

I did mention the war once.. but I think I got away with it…

 
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