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The Dissonance Theory

 
Mencar
 
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Mencar
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15 April 2013 00:22
 

I have recently joined this forum after reading a few of the most interesting discussion topics from some of the most respected scientists. What a resource to access! Deeply grateful. I have always believed in rationality and have for most of my life searched for the elusive strings that tie everything together. So much I see happening in the world never made sense to me. The cruelty of humanity, our mismanagement of the planet, remuneration levels, etc, etc, etc.

I think my problem may have been very human, I was always looking for something where I am at the center of the universe so to speak. It then occurred to me that the very nature of time is what we have to adhere to, not its representation in the clock ticking. It appears that current theory about the nature of what we experience as time is based on a global tendency towards increasing entropy. What I am proposing is that on a mental equivalent of seeking entropy, dissonance serves this function. It creates an impact through creating bi-polarity that has to be resolved due to the need to maintain continuity of self. I also suggest that dissonance (or the generation of internal disagreement) is the ONLY means by which confirmation bias is interrupted. Must we not then conclude that every action can be measured in value to nature, who’s tendency is towards entropy, by the level of dissonance it creates?

The implications of this could provide a compass to our own life and society at large. We, as a human race, must adjust our current misalignment with the natural law of entropy by learning to value challenge rather than ‘confirmation of bias’ reinforcement. Competition is only one, and I suggest inefficient, means of creating entropy especially if based on false values, which is probably unavoidably the case. Assigning value to actions, words, and behavior that creates dissonance, or challenge, to ourselves would then serve as the single moral, economic, spiritual and physical principle. Nobody said that humans should be happy with it, entropy will occur at its natural rate. Whether we choose to harness this natural energy in small and manageable doses or attempt to damn it up by a futile attempt to stop change, is irrelevant. In the latter case the means by which the natural process of entropy will be achieved may be catastrophic to many or all. A better alternative is to encourage continuous gradual change to create a more peaceful society that is aligned with the natural rate of entropy.
Given my own confirmation bias is as strong as ever, I shall welcome the comments of members by the degree to which they create dissonance for me.

 
EN
 
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EN
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15 April 2013 01:01
 
Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

I have recently joined this forum after reading a few of the most interesting discussion topics from some of the most respected scientists.

I think you have the wrong number.

Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

The cruelty of humanity, our mismanagement of the planet, remuneration levels, etc, etc, etc.

We haven’t been as cruel as the dinosaurs, nor have we mismanaged it like they did. Bastards went extinct. I think we’ve improved on their bad example. Are you suggesting that someone put us in charge?

Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

I think my problem may have been very human, I was always looking for something where I am at the center of the universe so to speak.

There’s your problem. I am at the center of the universe, not you. Or at least that’s how it appears to me.

Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

It then occurred to me that the very nature of time is what we have to adhere to, not its representation in the clock ticking. It appears that current theory about the nature of what we experience as time is based on a global tendency towards increasing entropy. What I am proposing is that on a mental equivalent of seeking entropy, dissonance serves this function. It creates an impact through creating bi-polarity that has to be resolved due to the need to maintain continuity of self. I also suggest that dissonance (or the generation of internal disagreement) is the ONLY means by which confirmation bias is interrupted. Must we not then conclude that every action can be measured in value to nature, who’s tendency is towards entropy, by the level of dissonance it creates?

I am certainly increasing towards entropy - it’s called death. I’ll be making my contribution within the next 30 years.

Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

The implications of this could provide a compass to our own life and society at large. We, as a human race, must adjust our current misalignment with the natural law of entropy by learning to value challenge rather than ‘confirmation of bias’ reinforcement.

Why?  Why must we adjust? Why can’t I just say “fuck entropy - I’m going to enjoy my life”? Any time you say we must do something, you run up against the philosophical and logical impossibility of deriving an “ought” from an “is,” a subject on which we have wasted countless hours of life and energy on this forum.

 
robbrownsyd
 
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robbrownsyd
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15 April 2013 06:14
 

Welcome, Mencar.

Look at it this way: No mattter what you do entropy will get in the long run. Everything is necessary so stop worrying. If we become extinct it will be a shame from our point of view (maybe) but no big deal when we reflect on the fact that 99.9…% of species that have ever existed are now extinct. Unless there’s something very special about us (and I’m not sure there is) we’ll go the same way. So let’s enjoy our moment in the sun.

BTW, folks, this is my 6000th post. I’m not sure whether congratulations or commiserations are in order but I’ll take advantage of any excuse to crack a bottle of something. Look for my post number 6001 on the “What are you drinking now?” thread.

Welcome again, Mencar.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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15 April 2013 15:51
 

Hum, I think you may have taken a wrong turn somewhere, but hey welcome to the neighborhood anyways!

 
 
GAD
 
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15 April 2013 15:53
 
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 15 April 2013 04:14 AM

Welcome, Mencar.

Look at it this way: No mattter what you do entropy will get in the long run. Everything is necessary so stop worrying. If we become extinct it will be a shame from our point of view (maybe) but no big deal when we reflect on the fact that 99.9…% of species that have ever existed are now extinct. Unless there’s something very special about us (and I’m not sure there is) we’ll go the same way. So let’s enjoy our moment in the sun.

BTW, folks, this is my 6000th post. I’m not sure whether congratulations or commiserations are in order but I’ll take advantage of any excuse to crack a bottle of something. Look for my post number 6001 on the “What are you drinking now?” thread.

Welcome again, Mencar.

Probably both, so congratulations and I’m so sorry.

 
 
Mencar
 
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Mencar
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15 April 2013 21:16
 

The interesting discussions I referred to we’re on edge.org - forgot to add that in, and one of the authors cited at edge, opened this site I believe. He probably has given up by now.

Reply #1 says I just wAnt to enjoy myself. That is not an argument derived from REASON, that is called wanking.
Reply #2. Thank you for explaining the entropy theory, which I refer to as the nature of time. Really the only theory to explain time other than in the clock ticking without meaning. What I am suggesting is that dissonance is the mental equivalent of entropy and equally happens whether we like it or not.
Reply #3 Not very helpful as a reply. You seem to value quantity over quality

My feeling is that it appears that anyone with reason has fled this site by now!?

 
GAD
 
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15 April 2013 22:56
 
Mencar - 15 April 2013 07:16 PM

The interesting discussions I referred to we’re on edge.org - forgot to add that in, and one of the authors cited at edge, opened this site I believe. He probably has given up by now.

Reply #1 says I just wAnt to enjoy myself. That is not an argument derived from REASON, that is called wanking.
Reply #2. Thank you for explaining the entropy theory, which I refer to as the nature of time. Really the only theory to explain time other than in the clock ticking without meaning. What I am suggesting is that dissonance is the mental equivalent of entropy and equally happens whether we like it or not.
Reply #3 Not very helpful as a reply. You seem to value quantity over quality

My feeling is that it appears that anyone with reason has fled this site by now!?

Well fuck you very much too.

 
 
Mencar
 
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Mencar
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15 April 2013 23:57
 

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum? And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

 
GAD
 
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16 April 2013 00:32
 
Mencar - 15 April 2013 09:57 PM

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum? And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

Why do you think I care?

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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16 April 2013 00:52
 

What sort of response were you hoping for?

This is a discussion forum. For discussing. We may agree on what reason is not on what is reasonable.
Be reasonable. You may be right. We don’t want to fek with you.

 
 
robbrownsyd
 
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16 April 2013 07:51
 
GAD - 15 April 2013 01:53 PM
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 15 April 2013 04:14 AM

Welcome, Mencar.

Look at it this way: No mattter what you do entropy will get in the long run. Everything is necessary so stop worrying. If we become extinct it will be a shame from our point of view (maybe) but no big deal when we reflect on the fact that 99.9…% of species that have ever existed are now extinct. Unless there’s something very special about us (and I’m not sure there is) we’ll go the same way. So let’s enjoy our moment in the sun.

BTW, folks, this is my 6000th post. I’m not sure whether congratulations or commiserations are in order but I’ll take advantage of any excuse to crack a bottle of something. Look for my post number 6001 on the “What are you drinking now?” thread.

Welcome again, Mencar.

Probably both, so congratulations and I’m so sorry.

LOL That covers all bases, GAD. I’ll have a drink for you and give Pearl another pat.

 
bardoXV
 
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bardoXV
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16 April 2013 11:00
 
Mencar - 15 April 2013 09:57 PM

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum?

And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

Welcome to the forum, and,

2 points I would like to make.  You will find that on many forums, that are lightly moderated, there are some who just come liiking for a fight.  If you are here for a fight, have fun, otherwise, pick the posts you want to responde to. 

Your 2nd sentence, sounds just a bit like Juvenile chest pounding and is a bit pointless, unless there is going to be a face to face confrontation, or you think you can argue and type so much better than others.  Almost any confrontation can go either way, with the possible exceptoin of a MMA champion picking on Stephen Hawking.  And this is a guy that you wouldn’t have wanted to mess with,  unfortunately he passed away a few years ago,

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saralynn
 
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16 April 2013 12:18
 
Mencar - 14 April 2013 10:22 PM

I have recently joined this forum after reading a few of the most interesting discussion topics from some of the most respected scientists. What a resource to access! Deeply grateful. I have always believed in rationality and have for most of my life searched for the elusive strings that tie everything together. So much I see happening in the world never made sense to me. The cruelty of humanity, our mismanagement of the planet, remuneration levels, etc, etc, etc.

I think my problem may have been very human, I was always looking for something where I am at the center of the universe so to speak. It then occurred to me that the very nature of time is what we have to adhere to, not its representation in the clock ticking. It appears that current theory about the nature of what we experience as time is based on a global tendency towards increasing entropy. What I am proposing is that on a mental equivalent of seeking entropy, dissonance serves this function. It creates an impact through creating bi-polarity that has to be resolved due to the need to maintain continuity of self. I also suggest that dissonance (or the generation of internal disagreement) is the ONLY means by which confirmation bias is interrupted. Must we not then conclude that every action can be measured in value to nature, who’s tendency is towards entropy, by the level of dissonance it creates?

The implications of this could provide a compass to our own life and society at large. We, as a human race, must adjust our current misalignment with the natural law of entropy by learning to value challenge rather than ‘confirmation of bias’ reinforcement. Competition is only one, and I suggest inefficient, means of creating entropy especially if based on false values, which is probably unavoidably the case. Assigning value to actions, words, and behavior that creates dissonance, or challenge, to ourselves would then serve as the single moral, economic, spiritual and physical principle. Nobody said that humans should be happy with it, entropy will occur at its natural rate. Whether we choose to harness this natural energy in small and manageable doses or attempt to damn it up by a futile attempt to stop change, is irrelevant. In the latter case the means by which the natural process of entropy will be achieved may be catastrophic to many or all. A better alternative is to encourage continuous gradual change to create a more peaceful society that is aligned with the natural rate of entropy.
Given my own confirmation bias is as strong as ever, I shall welcome the comments of members by the degree to which they create dissonance for me.

 

My husband believes in an entropy tax.  He wants to tax things that cause a lot of entropy.  Thus, a Ferrari would have a huge tax, but growing an apple tree would have none. My recollection is vague because this used to be a theory he’d espouse when he had too much to drink, and he’s been living an austere life for the last few months, but it sounds like he is thinking along the same lines you are.  If you like, I can load him up on a few martinis and he can dictate a response to you.

I’ve been trying to live in the eternal moment rather than in the chronological moment. I don’t do this all the time, of course, because I might start chewing with my mouth open or picking my ass as I walk, but it is an interesting exercise.  If you do it, you must avoid mirrors. Actually, it works best if you close your eyes.

Ignore GAD.  He has bad manners.

 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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16 April 2013 12:29
 
Mencar - 15 April 2013 09:57 PM

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum? And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

Oh, I don’t know. I’m pretty tempted to fuck with you.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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16 April 2013 13:24
 
bigredfutbol - 16 April 2013 10:29 AM
Mencar - 15 April 2013 09:57 PM

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum? And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

Oh, I don’t know. I’m pretty tempted to fuck with you.


Yeah, that one actually kinda nudged me a bit in the same direction ... but why bother?

That’s what the dude clearly wants anyway. Those are clearly the buttons he’s pushing.

And there’ll be ample accommodation as-is, pretty much guaranteed.

For some reason.

 
 
bigredfutbol
 
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16 April 2013 13:29
 
SkepticX - 16 April 2013 11:24 AM
bigredfutbol - 16 April 2013 10:29 AM
Mencar - 15 April 2013 09:57 PM

Why do you consider either of your responses to demonstrate reason, which I assumed to be the purpose of this forum? And a little word of advice, you DON’T want to fuck with me, I can assure you!

Oh, I don’t know. I’m pretty tempted to fuck with you.


Yeah, that one actually kinda nudged me a bit in the same direction ... but why bother?

That’s what the dude clearly wants anyway. Those are clearly the buttons he’s pushing.

And there’ll be ample accommodation as-is, pretty much guaranteed.

For some reason.

Of course you’re right, and that was more or less what I was getting at. He SO wants to be provocative and an internet badass.

In actually, I won’t be “fucking” with him. I just wanted to mock the entire pretense. Other than that, I’m done here.

 
 
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