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Why do Christian based religions need HELL as the ultimate destination for Non-Believers?

 
davids
 
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davids
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06 October 2013 02:19
 

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. In other-words, the consequence for not joining “THE CLUB” results in a BLACK, DARK, PAINFUL outcome.  The christian faith talks about having free will, accepting the FAITH freely, but how many humans , if truly enlightened….would choose HELL as the consequence for their NON-MEMBERSHIP???

He’s making a list, he’s checkin’ it twice
He’s gonna find out whose naughty or nice
He sees you when you’re sleeping
He knows if you’re awake
He knows if you’ve been bad or good
(so you’d) better be good for goodness sake

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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06 October 2013 02:32
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:19 AM

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. In other-words, the consequence for not joining “THE CLUB” results in a BLACK, DARK, PAINFUL outcome.  The christian faith talks about having free will, accepting the FAITH freely, but how many humans , if truly enlightened….would choose HELL as the consequence for their NON-MEMBERSHIP???

He’s making a list, he’s checkin’ it twice
He’s gonna find out whose naughty or nice
He sees you when you’re sleeping
He knows if you’re awake
He knows if you’ve been bad or good
(so you’d) better be good for goodness sake

Do not be as mind absent as this post.  But you will be.  I’d spell it out, but you’re not worth my time.

 
 
davids
 
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davids
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06 October 2013 02:40
 

id laugh, but then that would give you the wrong impression.

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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06 October 2013 02:43
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:19 AM

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. In other-words, the consequence for not joining “THE CLUB” results in a BLACK, DARK, PAINFUL outcome.  The christian faith talks about having free will, accepting the FAITH freely, but how many humans , if truly enlightened….would choose HELL as the consequence for their NON-MEMBERSHIP???


But if you can get a society to buy into the Heaven and Hell schtick, and those societies socialize new members to believe it, then it serves as a really nasty threat to motivate the approved “beliefs”, and if you can get people to convince themselves of a vapid belief, you can control them to a significant degree ... at least until it gets more complicated and other versions of the beliefs that follow the Heaven and Hell schtick become prevalent and also popular.

Anyway, it’s a good control/stay with the Home Team incentive ... or rather a strong leave the Home Team disincentive.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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06 October 2013 14:59
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:40 AM

id laugh, but then that would give you the wrong impression.

You can laugh, any reasonable person would.

 
 
Hypersoup
 
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12 November 2013 15:56
 

This is an important one to understand.

In the psalms widsom says “my words bring life”.

The function of ethics is to bring life and health to the organism. Evolution says so. Its just another adaptation to help us adapt, but in some sense normative (rules and procedures are important) rather than simply physiological (skin and bones).

As with cosmology, astronomy, mathematics etc religion tried its best to express and undertand.

Hell may well just be an extrapolation to a future state from disease and sufferng caused and related behaviors, and heaven an extrapolation in the other direction from health and flourishing and related activity.

Time lines as seen by the “visionary”: 

[color=gray]
                   A
faith         time lines A and B                        B:  disbelief
{heaven
healthorthodoxy and orthopraxy}  <Y{hell sicknessheterodoxyheteropraxy etc}[/color] 

Or Hell and Heaven may be symbolic warning and encouragement to the primitive psyche.

Perhaps the mind is more responsive to extreme threat, and so “hell” actually has had a functional role psychologically - disabling instinctive excesses of optimism and casualness, and also impelling one towards a very serious attitude towards moral life.

[ Edited: 12 November 2013 16:29 by Hypersoup]
 
 
EN
 
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EN
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12 November 2013 16:40
 

Hell (i.e.; eternal torment) is not necessary for the Christian faith.  It can get along fine without it.

 
deltabravo
 
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deltabravo
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30 November 2013 07:41
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:19 AM

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. In other-words, the consequence for not joining “THE CLUB” results in a BLACK, DARK, PAINFUL outcome.  The christian faith talks about having free will, accepting the FAITH freely, but how many humans , if truly enlightened….would choose HELL as the consequence for their NON-MEMBERSHIP???

He’s making a list, he’s checkin’ it twice
He’s gonna find out whose naughty or nice
He sees you when you’re sleeping
He knows if you’re awake
He knows if you’ve been bad or good
(so you’d) better be good for goodness sake

Because religions were devised in times when there were no effective means of keeping social order, like prisons, so hell was a threat that was hung over people’s heads to make them behave.

 
Hypersoup
 
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07 December 2013 08:25
 

Lets not forget that there prophets were not dumb people, if the likes of Moses Miamonides who cIIRC laimed that prophetic intellect was that of genius, are to be trusted.

 
 
SteveMcKerracher
 
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SteveMcKerracher
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16 August 2014 22:17
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:19 AM

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. In other-words, the consequence for not joining “THE CLUB” results in a BLACK, DARK, PAINFUL outcome.  The christian faith talks about having free will, accepting the FAITH freely, but how many humans , if truly enlightened….would choose HELL as the consequence for their NON-MEMBERSHIP???

It’s a natural product of the evolution of ideas, which works just like biological evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

This is based on Richard Dawkins work, btw, before he was as well-known as today.


Basically we have ideas arise practically at random.  Like mutations in single cells.  Some are obviously bad (we’ve all had or heard these), some take awhile to realize they are bad, some seem good, and some are good.

The “good” or useful ones can soon take over a population.

Further more various ideas from diverse places and people can combine into a common belief system. 

When viewed through this lens, religion makes far more sense.

The belief in hell and the judgement is a natural result of Memetics.  It keeps people faithful because of fear.  It prevents doubt, and so protects the whole of the belief system. 

It’s like a virus that invades peoples mind, and then the virus produces its own immune system which destroys our immune system, the only way to cure the infection.  Which is doubt.

This is why these violent fundamentalist religions are so incredibly dangerous.  It spreads like a virus that destroys the immune system.  Once the infection is complete, it’s permanent in probably 98% of people.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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17 August 2014 17:51
 
SteveMcKerracher - 16 August 2014 08:17 PM

This is why these violent fundamentalist religions are so incredibly dangerous.  It spreads like a virus that destroys the immune system.  Once the infection is complete, it’s permanent in probably 98% of people.

Have you ever tried to help someone suffering from paranoia?  Unless you agree with them, they know immediately that you are one of THEM.

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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17 August 2014 19:51
 
davids - 06 October 2013 12:19 AM

I find it quite absurd that christian based religions, “Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and the likes…” describe HELL as the only “Alternative” for NOT following the “FAITH”. . . .

It’s even more absurd than that, davids, depending on which particular scripture you’re reading. Lots of absurd comments can be found in the NT that cause even the best of the blessed faithful to worry. Better not lie, better not cheat, better not die or your ass will be beat—and burned for an eternity, . . . Yes, hell is war. EN has a far better take on hell, but it is part of the NT. I think EN sees damnation as not an eternal fiery torture, but simply death, if I remember right.

And pay no attention to Dennis when he’s away from home. He can get sort of grouchy.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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17 August 2014 20:14
 

Kinda surprised I replied up there ... I usually wouldn’t have read past the first few ALL CAPS words in the OP.

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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17 August 2014 21:00
 

Are all-cap words scary for you, Byron? Or maybe they only summon up your moral indignation?

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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17 August 2014 21:30
 
envy me - 17 August 2014 05:51 PM

I think EN sees damnation as not an eternal fiery torture, but simply death, if I remember right.

Death (cessation of existence) would be worst that could happen, as I see it. It appears more likely that God will simply be reconciled to everyone in the end. But I suppose I have to leave open the possibility that some wouldn’t want that even if it were offered to them.

 
SteveMcKerracher
 
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18 August 2014 03:43
 
unsmoked - 17 August 2014 03:51 PM
SteveMcKerracher - 16 August 2014 08:17 PM

This is why these violent fundamentalist religions are so incredibly dangerous.  It spreads like a virus that destroys the immune system.  Once the infection is complete, it’s permanent in probably 98% of people.

Have you ever tried to help someone suffering from paranoia?  Unless you agree with them, they know immediately that you are one of THEM.

Yup.  Once the infection succeeds in crippling the ability to doubt, it is nearly irreversible.

 
 
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