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“Words, words, words”  -  Hamlet

 
KathleenBrugger
 
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KathleenBrugger
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15 November 2013 01:43
 

LadyJane I hope you post some more threads about words. I love words also and this thread has been very interesting.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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15 November 2013 12:20
 
KathleenBrugger - 15 November 2013 12:43 AM

LadyJane I hope you post some more threads about words. I love words also and this thread has been very interesting.

I would be more than happy to oblige and please feel free to do the same.  You have provided some very thoughtful observations on this thread and I appreciate your assistance in reconciling this word.  It’s always impressive when you encounter words, put together in such a way, that bring you to tears or make you laugh out loud.  Words that are written to fulfill a function and conjure emotion can be a very powerful thing and it’s important to remember that they only possess as much power as we give them.  I suppose we need to honour that.

Then we can begin dissecting colloquialisms.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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15 November 2013 13:33
 

When I was in high school, I heard a radio interview with the Firesign Theatre that changed: no, re-educated me on the nature of words. The gist was, if you take away the Supremacy of words, all we are left with is theories, conjectures and toys.

If you believe in a Cosmically Supreme Being that talks, then those words must hold a pre-existing cosmic supremacy of their own as God’s actual Words of the Cosmos. The definitions of words become the definitions of the world.

It’s an extra step to take the divinity out of words. Words are theories. Definitions only define the theories behind the words. Words are fragile and ephemeral. Bud McFarlane showed us that language will break under torture.

Wordy expressions are propagated only if actually consumed. Mint frosting might help. I spread trioon propaganda or try to. Propaganda’s unfortunate reputation as a bottomless well of lies, acrimony and perversions of truth started and kept pace with the printing press.

In a modern context, it just means that which is successfully propagated. Like this: In the first decade of the printing press, the most printed word in Europe was fart.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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16 November 2013 12:45
 

Fart:  1. v.i. (not in polite usage) to break wind, let wind fly from the anus 2. n. (not in polite usage) such an emission of wind.  -Webster

This is good reading right here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fart

I ferzan in your general direction.

 
 
KathleenBrugger
 
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KathleenBrugger
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20 November 2013 13:52
 

Hi LadyJane, I posted a thread on “love,” thought you might be interested in weighing in!
http://www.project-reason.org/forum/viewthread/27625/

 
 
rbrooku
 
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rbrooku
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28 November 2013 00:48
 

Propaganda is simply rhetoric and rhetoric is good or bad depending on one of two possible standards. First is on whether it is to persuade people to do that which is “good” or whether it is used to sway others in order to profit. An example of using it to the “good’ would be Themistocles lying to the Athenians so the would build a navy. This ultimately save Athens from being conquered by Persia.

By the second standard, that of Socrates, it is lying and by the standard of searching for Truth is an evil, unless the first standard is paramount as with the example of Themistocles.

Pretty much, that’s it, the “answer” to the question of this thread.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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28 November 2013 12:32
 

Great word.  Once again my dictionaries don’t quite match up or rather the internet doesn’t quite match up with my dictionaries.  Words like influence and persuade come up where as Webster’s doesn’t mention them at all and sticks to the art or science of communication in words.  Curious.  It makes everything suspect.

My favourite thing about playing with words is that it always leads to a history lesson.  You illustrate that here using the examples of Themistocles and Socrates, and if I understand correctly, lying or misleading is acceptable if it serves the greater good.

It’s always a delight to put these things in not only a proper context but in every context in order to get somewhere in the vicinity of understanding.  I am beginning to think that my library card is the most valuable thing I own.  I appreciate your input and always welcome anything that adds to the chart.

Welcome to the forum…thanks for plotting.

 
 
Shyraz
 
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Shyraz
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07 July 2014 21:09
 

As icehorse and KathleenBrugger mentioned, the word ‘influence’ is associated with manipulation. In a culture where the outcome or impact of any message relies on rhetoric, valuable information and knowledge is wasted. If a culture does not discern meaning from neutral, objective facts than it relies on someone to interpret these facts, and interpretation is not objective. A culture that asks for an interpretation of facts can be much more easily influenced and duped than a culture that assesses facts critically, objectively and reasonable.

 
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