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The Mythicist Position and the Reason Project

 
Veronica95
 
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Veronica95
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05 July 2014 16:01
 
Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

Veronica, it sounds to me like you are advocating a kind of inquisition against some types of religious thought.

It’s completely ludicrous to even attempt to claim any sort of “inquisition.” There’s just no justification for such an accusation.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

This has been tried before, and it doesn’t really work

The mythicist position and mythicism based on valid evidence that actually exists has never actually *NEVER* been tried before so, I don’t know where you’re getting your ideas from. While mythicism has been around longer the mythicist position was only created in 2009.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

It is an approach that is in general antithetical to free thought and freedom of expression

Ludicrous once again. You are just smearing now based on no credible evidence to support it whatsoever.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

dialectical engagement

Are you stoned? You can read the links and videos I’ve already posted here to see your claims about this thread are a complete divorce from reality. It’s just bizaare. It sounds like you’re confusing mythicism with the new strong atheism, which would prefer no religion.

What’s fantastic about the mythicist position is that they seek out the ancient primary sources to demonstrate where all of the religious concepts originated. So, it’s a scientific evidence based position. It turns out that many of the worlds most cherished religious beliefs originated from natural phenomena. It’s an Occam’s razor explanation that one would think that Sam Harris and the Reason Project would at least want to check into since mythicism and the mythicist position offer the very best and most reasonable explanation for the creation and evolution of religious concepts.

Watch the mythicist position video and read the links in the info box for further more info. Sam Harris and the Reason Project would be wise to adopt the mythicist position.

The Mythicist Position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BNKhGAVRQ

The Mythicist Position and Astrotheology

“One of the major planks of mythicism is recognizing the ancient astrotheology and nature worship engaged in by the cultures of antiquity whose religions and myths contributed to the formation of the Bible-based, Abrahamic faiths such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam in particular, but other religions as well. This astrotheology can be summed up in a nutshell as the reverence for and personification of the sun, moon, earth, planets, stars and constellations, as well as other celestial bodies and natural phenomena. The study of mythicism, astrotheology and archaeoastronomy reveals a very ancient body of knowledge that is both highly fascinating and far too overlooked in today’s society.”

SNIP

The Value of Mythicism

“Mythicism has much to offer to those who find it difficult to believe in the gospel story as “history” but who wish to know the deeper meaning behind the story. Indeed, the mythicist position importantly serves as a bridge between theism and atheism, as it does not seek to discount or denigrate the long and exalted history of thought concerning religion and mythology, dating back many thousands of years, as manifested in the religious and spiritual practices of man beginning millennia ago and continuing since then. The pinnacle of mythicist cultures-more specifically those based on astrotheology-can be seen in the massive and mysterious civilization of Egypt, for example. Rather than being ignored and dismissed, such wondrous creations should be explored and treasured as unique and glorious contributions to the overall human accomplishment.”

- What is a Mythicist? | The Mythicist Position | Mythicism
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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08 July 2014 02:29
 
Veronica95 - 05 July 2014 02:01 PM
Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

Veronica, it sounds to me like you are advocating a kind of inquisition against some types of religious thought.

It’s completely ludicrous to even attempt to claim any sort of “inquisition.” There’s just no justification for such an accusation.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

This has been tried before, and it doesn’t really work

The mythicist position and mythicism based on valid evidence that actually exists has never actually *NEVER* been tried before so, I don’t know where you’re getting your ideas from. While mythicism has been around longer the mythicist position was only created in 2009.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

It is an approach that is in general antithetical to free thought and freedom of expression

Ludicrous once again. You are just smearing now based on no credible evidence to support it whatsoever.

Poldano - 05 July 2014 05:24 AM

dialectical engagement

Are you stoned? You can read the links and videos I’ve already posted here to see your claims about this thread are a complete divorce from reality. It’s just bizaare. It sounds like you’re confusing mythicism with the new strong atheism, which would prefer no religion.

What’s fantastic about the mythicist position is that they seek out the ancient primary sources to demonstrate where all of the religious concepts originated. So, it’s a scientific evidence based position. It turns out that many of the worlds most cherished religious beliefs originated from natural phenomena. It’s an Occam’s razor explanation that one would think that Sam Harris and the Reason Project would at least want to check into since mythicism and the mythicist position offer the very best and most reasonable explanation for the creation and evolution of religious concepts.

Watch the mythicist position video and read the links in the info box for further more info. Sam Harris and the Reason Project would be wise to adopt the mythicist position.

The Mythicist Position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BNKhGAVRQ

The Mythicist Position and Astrotheology

“One of the major planks of mythicism is recognizing the ancient astrotheology and nature worship engaged in by the cultures of antiquity whose religions and myths contributed to the formation of the Bible-based, Abrahamic faiths such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam in particular, but other religions as well. This astrotheology can be summed up in a nutshell as the reverence for and personification of the sun, moon, earth, planets, stars and constellations, as well as other celestial bodies and natural phenomena. The study of mythicism, astrotheology and archaeoastronomy reveals a very ancient body of knowledge that is both highly fascinating and far too overlooked in today’s society.”

SNIP

The Value of Mythicism

“Mythicism has much to offer to those who find it difficult to believe in the gospel story as “history” but who wish to know the deeper meaning behind the story. Indeed, the mythicist position importantly serves as a bridge between theism and atheism, as it does not seek to discount or denigrate the long and exalted history of thought concerning religion and mythology, dating back many thousands of years, as manifested in the religious and spiritual practices of man beginning millennia ago and continuing since then. The pinnacle of mythicist cultures-more specifically those based on astrotheology-can be seen in the massive and mysterious civilization of Egypt, for example. Rather than being ignored and dismissed, such wondrous creations should be explored and treasured as unique and glorious contributions to the overall human accomplishment.”

- What is a Mythicist? | The Mythicist Position | Mythicism
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/mythicist.html

Actually, I pretty much agree with the mythicist position. What I take exception to is what I interpret as your suggestions for how to spread it. Let it be a framework for investigation, very much the same as Darwin’s evolution was. If it has merit (and I believe it does) it will eventually prevail as the standard model in its domain, in much the same way that the theory of evolution has prevailed, despite the best efforts of people with theological axes to grind. What else can I say? Occam’s razor will always prove sharper than an army of pitchforks, no matter how well they have been sharpened. It has to be used on every pitchfork wielder one at a time, but eventually the wiser of them will learn something from the experience of the others.

Many of the people in this forum, and perhaps Sam as well, equate all of religion with what they see of it in its present form. They have a gut reaction against the all-too-evident uses of these belief systems to influence people for selfish economic or political ends. Presenting mythicist arguments gently, on a case-by-case basis, is in my opinion going to be more effective than calling for a wholesale adoption of what might be seen as yet another attempt to justify religion. Moreover, the reaction of many will be, “So what?” The existence of a natural and empirical basis for traditional religious beliefs is, to such people, no argument for religious beliefs’ appropriateness in an age of empirical science or superiority or against a denial of any dogmatic belief system.

[ Edited: 08 July 2014 02:54 by Poldano]
 
 
Veronica95
 
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Veronica95
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10 July 2014 14:28
 

Hi Poldano, I’m glad to hear that you agree with the mythicist position. However, your criticism on how to spread it seems like a red herring to me since I have no idea what you’re talking about since I made no mention on how to spread the mythicist position, which is a part of why I posted this thread here in the “Ideas for Projects” section of the Reason Project forum. I figure the board of directors may come up with their own ideas on how best to spread the mythicist position - if they would ever read this thread and or respond to my many e-mails attempting to bring it to their attention.

And once again, you failed to cite anything. So, I have no idea what you’re talking about or even why you’re complaining. It’s like you’re just pulling criticism out of the air and I don’t know why. Perhaps, instead of complaining about things in this thread that don’t exist, how about offering ideas to help out instead?

 
Veronica95
 
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Veronica95
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26 August 2014 14:05
 

I would like to hear what the Project Reason Advisory Board thinks of the mythicist position. I’m flabbergasted that the Reason Project has shown no interest in the Mythicist Position when it’s the simplest explanation for religious concepts i.e. Occam’s razor.

I was under the impression that the Reason Project was interested in “eroding the influence of dogmatism, superstition, and bigotry in our world” and were “devoted to fostering critical thinking

Mission
http://www.project-reason.org/about/

The mythicist position is the best I’ve seen ... I have yet to see anything better. It’s as if the board and leadership of the Reason Project do not even read their own forum section: “Have any suggestion for Project Reason to undertake?” So, why even have one then? What exactly does the Project Reason Advisory Board even do because I’m not aware of them ever actually doing anything at all.

Jesus Christ, Sun of Righteousness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faILHU82-Cw

Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver
http://www.project-reason.org/forum/viewthread/28458/

The Mythicist Position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BNKhGAVRQ

 
Veronica95
 
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15 December 2014 20:35
 

Star Worship of the Ancient Israelites
http://astrotheology.net/star-worship-of-the-ancient-israelites/

2,750-year-old solar-aligned temple discovered in Israel
http://freethoughtnation.com/2750-year-old-solar-aligned-temple-discovered-in-israel/

“I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations.” “I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock”
- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D’s

“This book is a slightly revised version of my doctoral dissertation entitled “Solar Worship in the Biblical World” which was submitted to the Graduate School of Yale University in the Spring of 1989. As may be judged from the title of that work, I had at one time planned to cover more territory than sun worship in ancient Israel, but found the material pertaining to ancient Israel so vast that I never got beyond it.”

- Rev. Dr. J. Glen Taylor, “Yahweh and the Sun: Biblical and Archaeological Evidence for Sun Worship in Ancient Israel” (1993)

“At Stonehenge in England and Carnac in France, in Egypt and Yucatan, across the whole face of the earth are found mysterious ruins of ancient monuments, monuments with astronomical significance. These relics of other times are as accessible as the American Midwest and as remote as the jungles of Guatemala. Some of them were built according to celestial alignments; others were actually precision astronomical observatories ... Careful observation of the celestial rhythms was compellingly important to early peoples, and their expertise, in some respects, was not equaled in Europe until three thousand years later.”

- Dr. Edwin Krupp, Astronomer and Director of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles

 
Poldano
 
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16 December 2014 07:02
 

I am sorry to say, the mythicist position as described in the referenced documents is a big don’t-care, except for people who have a scholarly interest in the history and archaeology, and for true believers who are trying to reconcile their beliefs with documented evidence.

There is no significant individual in the history of mankind who has not acquired a load of legend along with their actual history. In many cases, what remains is nothing but the legend. Except for scholarship, what matters is not the accuracy of the ascription, but the meaning of the ascription for those who did the ascribing and for those who believe it to be important.

So, to use one example, it doesn’t matter if Moses actually saw a burning bush, or if there ever was a burning bush, or if it was someone other than Moses. What matters to me is what the burning bush supposedly called itself Yahweh, which supposedly translates as, “I am that am.” This statement, and its interpretation by subsequent generations, are what fascinate me. Someone was trying to encode some information through it, and emphasized its import by putting it in the mouth of the legendary prophet. That someone might actually have been the legendary prophet, or it might have been someone who made up the story for emphasis. Whatever the case, I find these things interesting:
(1) The statement itself is very similar to Bertrand Russell’s statement, “It just is.”
(2) It is framed in the first person, with a consequent rhetorical impact different from Russell’s third-person statement.
(3) It contains a dependent clause that may be interpreted to mean causality, which if so, is a stronger assertion than Russell’s.

I could probably do the same for any other prophet or whatnot worth looking into.

Anyway, for most of us in the present time, whether the stories are true or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether the information contained therein, or any interpretations thereof, are useful to us in the present. We can only find that out empirically, the same as for any information, religious or not, supposedly “divinely inspired” or not.

I see all else in this proposal as an attempt by the OP to shill a particular set of books of no particular import. If you’re interested in the subject matter, read them. The gist of their contents had already been incorporated into my interpretations of the early history of religions when I studied the subject as an undergraduate, 40+ years ago, and is probably already incorporated into textbooks on the subject. The final interpretation awaits further historical and archaeological evidence. I see no point in being a partisan, either one way or the other.

[ Edited: 16 December 2014 07:17 by Poldano]
 
 
Veronica95
 
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Veronica95
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16 December 2014 16:58
 

Poldano, we’ve already gone through this, you just come off as a negative Nancy. You clearly have nothing to offer here beyond being negative in your attempt to claim nobody cares about accuracy, facts and credible evidence and that “it doesn’t matter” and “most of us ... whether the stories are true or not is irrelevant.”

Speak for yourself as I don’t know anybody who cares about these issues that agrees with you. You only hold back any sort of progression to move us beyond the endless theist vs atheist debate, which can only go around in circles without mythicism. And without mythicism people will never know the origins of the religious concepts/myths or the meaning of these myths. So yeah, accuracy most certainly does matter and is relevant and that information is useful in our present day. Here are a lot of people who completely disagree with you:

http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1959

People who actually study the subject already know this, so, when you claim: “I studied the subject as an undergraduate, 40+ years ago” it comes off as a falsehood because no such courses exist. Mythicism has never been allowed to be taught in academia and has been purposely kept out.

“... there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament or Early Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of higher learning in the Western world.”
- Bart D. Ehrman

“Ehrman raises a straw man here because he knows there is no such course teaching the case for mythicism and mythicists are not typically going to be hired, in fact, if anybody comes out of the mythicist closet they’re more likely to be fired - for example: Fired for Saying Adam and Eve Mythical? A news report about a professor at a community college in Iowa who claimed he was fired for stating in class that the biblical Adam and Eve were mythical.”

“The Mythicist case has been rebutted? Really? When did that happen? The arguments of the Mythicist camp have never been refuted - they have only been steadfastly ignored.”

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D’s

Religion and the Ph.D.: A Brief History
http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3110

If you don’t like this thread you are welcome to ignore it. Sorry but, I see no legit reason to believe you have any idea what you’re talking about.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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16 December 2014 17:27
 
Veronica95 - 16 December 2014 03:58 PM

If you don’t like this thread you are welcome to ignore it.

This is not a rented billboard for advertising. It is a discussion forum. Your postings will face challenges of all kinds.

If that’s not why you’re hear, then why are you here?

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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16 December 2014 18:49
 
Veronica95, to Poldano - 16 December 2014 03:58 PM

. . . Sorry but, I see no legit reason to believe you have any idea what you’re talking about.

Believe it or not, Poldano has a record of knowing what he’s talking about, to an extreme degree.

 
 
Poldano
 
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16 December 2014 21:00
 

Thanks for the backup, folks.

Veronica, I was willing to let my misgivings slide indefinitely, but you have started to post in other threads. Your partisanship confuses the issues being discussed there. That’s why I posted my challenging opinions. You are free to disagree with me, and I may actually be interested enough to follow up. But your criticisms of my negative comments, simply for being negative comments, are inappropriate, as Nhoj said. We play contact sports of the mind hereabouts, and if you can’t stand getting hit, you are perfectly free to stay out of the games.

For further background, I’ve watched cable TV programs with essentially the same conclusions built into their backgrounds. These were not NOVA-quality programs, but “woowah” stuff on the History or Discovery channel, indicating to me that the information has already been absorbed into the documentation on which the exploitation writers base that kind of tripe. So, the archaeological evidence is worth considering, but it can only ever provide evidence, and not conclusive proof, that the legendary personages of religion never existed but were fabricated. Therefore, for Project Reason to launch or support a rhetorical campaign to pressure academics to side with one particular side of this issue would be an abrogation of its stated mission, in my opinion.

I maintain my position that the actual existence of these legendary personages is of much less importance for the bulk of discussions on this site than either the beliefs that people invest in them or the extent to which, and manner in which, people make use of the messages ascribed to them. To compare this matter to a similar controversy, it doesn’t really matter that William Shakespeare wrote the plays and sonnets ascribed to him nearly as much as that they are really good and we still enjoy them. I’m repeating myself, of course, but maybe with enough repetitions you will understand it.

[ Edited: 16 December 2014 21:09 by Poldano]
 
 
Veronica95
 
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17 December 2014 16:37
 

Honestly, where are the moderators/admins here when they’re actually needed? Here’s GAD calling me a “whore” after having been told by mods a couple years ago to stay out of my threads for being such a hateful and nasty troll.

http://www.project-reason.org/forum/viewthread/30933/#369946

For a couple years now that I have been posting here the “Reason Project” forum has been nothing but an epic disappointment.

I’m sorry but Poldano may be a genius in other subjects but, in mythicism and mythology he absolutely does not have a clue what he’s talking about and neither do you guys or you would already know this fact. It is a lie to claim he knew all this stuff 40 years ago - there were no such courses then and there are no such courses now:

Fired for Saying Adam and Eve Mythical? A news report about a professor at a community college in Iowa who claimed he was fired for stating in class that the biblical Adam and Eve were mythical.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/09/25/fired-for-saying-adam-and-eve/

And this is the “Reason Project” forum? It has been in my experience one of the most un-reasonable forums I’ve ever seen due to the knuckle dragging neanderthals posting their uneducated opinions with no substance while others, such as GAD, have only hatred and insults to offer but, I’m always the bad guy here and for what? - for trying to have an objective and adult conversation on the subject of the threads I start but, that has NEVER been allowed to happen here ever since I first joined here 5 years ago.

If someone asked me about this forum I would have to tell them to stay way and don’t waste their time as this is the last place I’d go looking for reasonable discussion. My very first thread here was censored and locked.

I just gave Poldano links and quotes backing up my case but, apparently, only I am suppose to face challenges - from others who have no clue. Poldano has not shown that he read the links, blogs, or watched the videos I’ve posted in this thread at all and is just offering his own distorted opinion on a subject he knows little about.

Poldano: “your criticisms of my negative comments, simply for being negative comments, are inappropriate”

Poldano, you are part of the problem not the solution. All you have to offer is an agenda to shut down discussion - talk about “partisanship.” Mythicism has never been allowed a place at the table and all you can do is make a case for why biases, suppression, bigotry and censorship is a good thing while I am made out to be the bad guy. I am asking for transparency, objectivity and honesty while Poldano makes a case for why facts, evidence and accuracy are all “irrelevant” and ‘does not matter.” How stupid can one possibly be? Am I being “Punked” is this the “Twilight Zone”?

Poldano: “For further background, I’ve watched cable TV programs with essentially the same conclusions built into their backgrounds.”

LOL, no you absolutely have not. Please stop making things up. You merely prove that you do not know the subject of this thread when you make such outrageous comments, which prove my point that you know little about this subject.

Poldano: “Therefore, for Project Reason to launch or support a rhetorical campaign to pressure academics to side with one particular side of this issue would be an abrogation of its stated mission, in my opinion.”

But it’s ok to assume existence of gods based on no credible evidence whatsoever? I swear I feel like I’m in a “Twilight Zone” episode when I come here. Besides, that is not even what this is about and had you read the links etc. you would know that mythicism is not even allowed a place at the table. It has been kept out of academia in any meaningful way. Theologians and New Testament scholars can get a Ph.D. without ever studying the subject of mythicism. So, why on earth would we trust their opinions based in utter ignorance? Why is that so difficult for people to understand?

Poldano: “maybe with enough repetitions you will understand it.”

No, you can repeat ignorance and blind stupidity for the rest of your life and it will always be ignorance and blind stupidity. How about actually studying the subject for a change instead pretending you’re an expert on a subject you know little about?

How many of these books on the subject of mythicism have you actually read? My money is on NONE!
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26987#p26987

Poldano cannot substantiate his claims about courses on mythicism 40 years ago and he cannot substantiate his claims of “cable TV programs with essentially the same conclusions” - by all means, I dare you guys to challenge him to provide proof of such claims.

I also challenge Poldano to provide a comprehensive “mythicist position” from those 40 year old courses or TV programs on mythicism because the first one comes from a 2009 book, “Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection” page 11-12.

http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Egypt-Horus-Jesus-Connection-Murdock/dp/0979963117/truthbeknown

The Mythicist Position
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BNKhGAVRQ

Scholars who’ve actually read her work tend to be supportive of it:

“Your scholarship is relentless! The research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration.”
- Dr. Ken Feder, Professor of Archaeology

“I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations ... I find myself in full agreement with Acharya S/D.M. Murdock”
- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D’s

“...As for this tiresome business about there being “no scholar” or “no serious scholar” who advocates the Christ Myth theory: Isn’t it obvious that scholarly communities are defined by certain axioms in which grad students are trained, and that they will lose standing in those communities if they depart from those axioms? The existence of an historical Jesus is currently one of those. That should surprise no one, especially with the rightward lurch of the Society for Biblical Literature in recent years. It simply does not matter how many scholars hold a certain opinion…. “

- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D’s

“Why is it that no individual scholar or group of scholars has undertaken a concerted effort in recent times to discredit the mythicist position? (The brief addresses that have been made to it in various publications are outlined in my Main Article “Postscript”.) In the heyday of the great mythicists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a few valiant efforts were offered. However, both mainstream scholarship and the mythicist branch itself have made dramatic leaps since then. Biblical research has moved into bold new territory in the last several decades: unearthing a wealth of ancient documents, arriving at a new understanding of elements like Q, the sectarian nature of early Christianity, the Cynic roots of the great Gospel teachings, and so on; an almost unprecedented “critical” dimension to New Testament scholarship has emerged.

And yet the mythicist position continues to be vilified, disdained, dismissed. We would condemn any physicist, any anthropologist, any linguist, any mathematician, any scholar of any sort who professes to work in a field that makes even a partial bow to principles of logic and scientific research who yet ignored, reviled, condemned largely without examination a legitimate, persistent theory in his or her discipline. There are tremendous problems in New Testament research, problems that have been grappled with for generations and show no sign of getting closer to solution. Agreement is lacking on countless topics, and yesterday’s theories are being continually overturned. There is almost a civil war going on within the ranks of Jesus study. Why not give the mythicist option some serious consideration? Why not honestly evaluate it to see if it could provide some of the missing answers? Or, if it turns out that the case is fatally flawed, then put it to rest once and for all.

Doing that would require one essential thing: taking it seriously, approaching the subject having an open mind that the theory might have some merit. Sadly, that is the most difficult step and the one which most critics have had the greatest difficulty taking. It is all in the mindset, whether of the Christian believer whose confessional interests are overriding, or of the professional scholar who could never consider that their life’s work might be fatally compromised.”

- Earl Doherty

http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3110

I do not know why I come here as it has always been a complete waste of my time (shakes-head with amazement).

[ Edited: 17 December 2014 16:40 by Veronica95]
 
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19 December 2014 07:20
 
Veronica95 - 17 December 2014 03:37 PM

I do not know why I come here as it has always been a complete waste of my time (shakes-head with amazement).

I don’t know if the mythicist position is true or not, though it seems very reasonable. It doesn’t interest me enough to look into closely, and I’m not sure why it should. I don’t know why this is claimed as a bridge between atheists and theists. There are already substantial moral beliefs that exist for atheists that are shared by the religious. There are already bridges. Mythicism adds an important element undercutting those who believe religious beliefs are true, as opposed to simply useful.

I think you’ve been seeking interest in dispelling widespread beliefs in false truths. In this, I’m with you. But I don’t need to call myself a mythicist to do this. If you have an idea of how I could do it beyond what I’ve already been doing (arguing against ideas as I encounter them), I’m all ears.

 
Poldano
 
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20 December 2014 01:13
 
Veronica95 - 17 December 2014 03:37 PM

...
I do not know why I come here as it has always been a complete waste of my time (shakes-head with amazement).

Maybe for the reasons the rest of us use, because it’s fun.

Implying that you’re wasting your time implies that you have an objective. With respect to achieving objectives, there’s a saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Simply by disagreeing with you, I am raising your public profile here, and at least helping to get other people to pay attention. So, in a sense, even by disagreeing with you, I may be helping you achieve your objective.

So, what’s my cut?

 
 
Veronica95
 
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26 December 2014 17:58
 

Poldano “Simply by disagreeing with you, I am raising your public profile here”

Nope, just more of the same tortured logic and arrogance. All you’ve ever done is pretend you’re an expert on a subject you know nothing about and distract away from the topic at hand ruining any opportunity of an objective discussion of the subject at hand, which is an epic disappointment because the topic actually has enormous benefit to humanity. So, thanks for taking a dump on it.

 
Veronica95
 
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26 December 2014 17:59
 
Smote - 19 December 2014 06:20 AM
Veronica95 - 17 December 2014 03:37 PM

I do not know why I come here as it has always been a complete waste of my time (shakes-head with amazement).

I don’t know if the mythicist position is true or not, though it seems very reasonable. It doesn’t interest me enough to look into closely, and I’m not sure why it should. I don’t know why this is claimed as a bridge between atheists and theists. There are already substantial moral beliefs that exist for atheists that are shared by the religious. There are already bridges. Mythicism adds an important element undercutting those who believe religious beliefs are true, as opposed to simply useful.

I think you’ve been seeking interest in dispelling widespread beliefs in false truths. In this, I’m with you. But I don’t need to call myself a mythicist to do this. If you have an idea of how I could do it beyond what I’ve already been doing (arguing against ideas as I encounter them), I’m all ears.

Smote “It doesn’t interest me enough to look into closely, and I’m not sure why it should.”

If you’re not interested enough to even read any of the links or videos then there’s nothing anybody can do. Ya can lead a horse to water…

Smote “I don’t know why this is claimed as a bridge between atheists and theists.”

If you ever decided to study the subject you would learn that the origins of religious concepts have meaning that is still meaningful, useful and awe inspiring today and that these myths are based in natural phenomena. It neutralizes religious fundamentalism and bigotry and allows for humanity to move beyond the endless theist vs atheist debate. There’s no god but, the myths are awe inspiring for both theists and atheists reducing the “us vs them” mentality. 

Mythicists are not seeking to undercut or dispell widespread beliefs they’re merely tracing back the origins of religious concepts regardless of where the evidence takes them and it takes them to mythology founded in natural phenomena not any god. There’s no need to be saved and no need for any apocalypse or armageddon.

Smote “I don’t need to call myself a mythicist to do this”

It’s called mythicism because the origins of these religious concepts turn out to be mythology about natural phenomena, which can have profound meaning and be awe inspiring while being based in credible evidence that actualy exists ie the sun, moon, planets, stars, constellations, milky way etc.

Smote “If you have an idea of how I could do it beyond what I’ve already been doing (arguing against ideas as I encounter them), I’m all ears.”

If you’re just looking for something to argue with theists then, you’re just stuck in the endless theist vs atheist debate that goes nowhere. Tracing back the origins of these concepts and their evolution into what we have today is far more credible and interesting. It’s also a far superior way to debunk theists.

The basics are pretty well explained in the video:

The Mythicist Position
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BNKhGAVRQ

 
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