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Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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02 October 2014 13:08
 

What’s so horrible about having “God” undefined? I guess guesses could be fitting but no thus sayeth the lord anymore. And in addition to guesses, rather than trying to so inadequately define what “it” is, perhaps guesses on what “it” is not. For instance, for me, what it is, is undefined, what it is not, is any type of Abramic God. Can i get some deists and theists and atheists and agnostic comments - please no bible verses from the Christians, some of us have heard it all and going back to Christianity would be like a dog going back to its vomit - we’re not going there.

[ Edited: 03 October 2014 00:52 by Gregoryhhh]
 
 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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02 October 2014 13:52
 
Gregoryhhh - 02 October 2014 11:08 AM

What’s so horrible about having “God” undefined? I guess guesses could be fitting but no thus sayeth the lord anymore. And in addition to guesses, rather than trying to so inadequately define what “it” is, perhaps guesses on what “it” is not. For instance, for me, what it is, is undefined, what it is not, is any type of Abramic God. Can i get some deists and theists and atheists and agnostic comments - please no bible verses from the Christians, some of us have heard it all and going back to Christianity would be like a dog going back to its vomit - we’re not going there.

I think many believers of many types would acknowledge that his/her idea of who/what God ‘is’ is rather indefinable. Fundamentalists don’t like that, of course, but I would guess than many other more moderate believers are OK with the idea that nobody really knows.

Back when I was a believer, my idea of what God was or might be shifted a lot.

 
 
burt
 
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burt
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02 October 2014 14:58
 

You’re pointing to the area of “Negative Theology” which is based exactly on the idea that God is undefinable except in the negative. There is also the Buddhist exercise of undefining yourself by saying “Not that” to any identification that comes to mind.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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02 October 2014 15:36
 

What god(s) are you talking about? It can’t be the ones of religion because those are defined as clearly as any good fictional character.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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02 October 2014 15:59
 
burt - 02 October 2014 12:58 PM

You’re pointing to the area of “Negative Theology” which is based exactly on the idea that God is undefinable except in the negative. There is also the Buddhist exercise of undefining yourself by saying “Not that” to any identification that comes to mind.

Thanks for disturbing my ignorance about that burt - i rubbed up against “not that” in my readings and such didnt know it had a name “Negative Theology” sounds interesting and apparent.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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02 October 2014 16:06
 
GAD - 02 October 2014 01:36 PM

What god(s) are you talking about? It can’t be the ones of religion because those are defined as clearly as any good fictional character.

That’s what i like about this subject - defining what “It” isnt.

So far we have no god as defined by man (as GAD wrote)
Certainly we also have “it” as not any Abramic God type
But what “it” is remains undefined.

I’m sure there are other “not that” to define “it”

 
 
burt
 
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burt
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02 October 2014 23:38
 

A related concept is the Absolutely Infinite in math. Some mathematicians study “large cardinals” meaning different levels of infinity (e.g., the lowest level is the integers, they you get the real numbers, and there are a number of higher levels). A term used in this sort of study is the absolute infinite, which is addressed only in terms of a “reflection principle” which states that anything that can be predicated of the absolute infinite is already true of a lower order of infinity (so it doesn’t actually describe the absolute). Another way to think of it: if God is unlimited than anything you try to say about God is the imposition of a limit, hence actually false.

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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02 October 2014 23:48
 
burt - 02 October 2014 09:38 PM

A related concept is the Absolutely Infinite in math. Some mathematicians study “large cardinals” meaning different levels of infinity (e.g., the lowest level is the integers, they you get the real numbers, and there are a number of higher levels). A term used in this sort of study is the absolute infinite, which is addressed only in terms of a “reflection principle” which states that anything that can be predicated of the absolute infinite is already true of a lower order of infinity (so it doesn’t actually describe the absolute). Another way to think of it: if God is unlimited than anything you try to say about God is the imposition of a limit, hence actually false.

i like that - and your inclusion of “absolute infinity” reminds me that i was just introduced to varying sizes of infinities, some infinities are “bigger” than other infinities. I am aiming to do some reading about the “reflection principle” - thanks burt
gregory

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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03 October 2014 00:34
 

By the way, it’s “ignosticism”, not “ignostism”.

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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03 October 2014 00:55
 
EN - 02 October 2014 10:34 PM

By the way, it’s “ignosticism”, not “ignostism”.

Thanks EN - that was my first choice