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One True Religion

 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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06 October 2014 20:16
 

I think we can all agree that this is a crock of shit. But it’s also rarely parsed out as a separate religious issue altogether.

IMO Most theists are raised to believe that their religion is the one true religion - and that they will go to heaven, while everyone who believes in another religion is a “heathen” who will be eternally damned. A person with this belief system comes to the conclusion - see BM - that he or she is one of “God’s chosen few.” Feeling superior to others often leads a person to devalue “heathens,” and then to treat or think of them in an inferior way. The influence of belief in the “one true religion” has led to an extensive number of wars between societies, each of it was convinced its religion was superior. Such societies - see ME currently - think/thought they were justified in spreading their chosen religion through any possible means, including by physical force and death. My hypothesis is that the belief in “one true religion” may be the most crucial religious subset determinant in developing an attitudinal system of racial prejudice. I can’t imagine any religion being nearly as misguided and culturally dissonant without this particular concept embedded within its scripture and teachings, and that penetrating this belief will be the next and most substantial step toward secular progression, even if the doctrine otherwise remains intact. Do you agree? How could this be achieved?

[ Edited: 06 October 2014 20:20 by Jb8989]
 
 
jdrnd
 
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06 October 2014 21:04
 
jb8989 - 06 October 2014 06:16 PM

...Most theists are raised to believe that their religion is the one true religion - and that they will go to heaven, while everyone who believes in another religion is a “heathen” who will be eternally damned…  ...How could this be achieved?

War

 
Bugs Bunny
 
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06 October 2014 21:38
 

Only if people within the extreme branches of Islam and Christianity will separate their faith from the doctrine.  On the 3rd of this month, there has been a release of the movie called The Rapture, with Nicholas Cage, no small time actor like Kirk Cameron. Looking for passion in his life and a way to connect with his brother who is a pastor, including other members of his family he took the role. How many hurting and vulnerable people will be influenced by this hollywood actor?  The rapture story is about a literal interpretation using modern day events, pestilences, and war that fit into end time prophecy.  So the outdated mode of evangelism is replaced by biblical prophecy, by a cool actor!  Was this possible twenty years ago?  The message, ultimately is salvation only through Jesus Christ and no other.    Judaism,  still does not convert or threaten unbelievers with damnation, or violence. 

Until the politically correct element of hands off criticizing Islam in the West changes will be slow to occur.  Both Christianity and Islam carry all ethnic groups within its framework,  more about religious superiority, not racial.  I think societies rooting out and picking away at fundamentalism as a good start.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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06 October 2014 23:21
 

jb, you are describing how men divide one another out of fear and/or suspicion, or just as a way of creating group solidarity.  Religion is just one way men do this and it is not the originator.  People fight over anything - sport teams, kinds of sports (I still catch shit for playing a homoerotic game while wearing a grape smuggling costume (water polo)), politics, money, food, clothes, side of town, blah, blah, blah. . .  Why?  I don’t really know, but it may have something to do with a need for validation of one’s beliefs and preferences, and a need to be always right.

And I agree this thinking holds us back and down.  We do better by and for each other when we seek common ground.

 
sojourner
 
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06 October 2014 23:27
 

I almost liken this to ego develop in the psyche. My understanding is that the idea of being the ‘true’ religion started with the Abrahamic religions - before that, maybe it would be incorrect to say people were ‘tolerant’ of different practices, but that intolerance based on gods didn’t occur as much to them. Gods were like ferocious warriors hiding in the sky or behind a mountain who might smote you if you pissed them off and reward you if they liked you. What was there to base group membership on? If you move into a new neighborhood and there’s a new neighborhood bully, you learn to appease and avoid him with the new neighborhood kids, after all, you don’t swear allegiance to your old neighborhood bully. New mountain, new god behind it, moving on.


I think that in some sense ‘self-cherishing’ is an incredibly important means to an end - for individuals and societies - that becomes so embedded in our neurology that we forget it is a means to an end. We wouldn’t exist if we did not differentiate ourselves, as a system to be preserved, vs. the outside environment. Same for societies. If, as we were morphing from primordial ooze into other animals - we looked at our arms and didn’t think in some sense “That is my arm, it belongs to me”, then we’d have just chewed it off or let it be torn off carelessly in an accident or some such thing. There has to be a process of becoming a cohesive unit.


And at some point, we move from egocentric kids into adulthood. I mean granted, unless you’re a saintly type, most adults are pretty egocentric too, but not compared to children. I’ve noticed that before a certain age, for example, children literally cannot ‘see’ their own actions enough to reflect on them. A brother and a sister get into a fight and they will both claim the other attacked them horribly, and they started it, and for no reason, and they didn’t do anything wrong. (If you’ve ever supervised relatives who are children, you’ll know exactly what I mean. This is the point where you start sounding exactly like the parent you swore you would never, ever sound like.) Not because they are lying, I think, because they can ‘see’ the actions of their sibling, but they cannot ‘see’ their own actions, because it’s purely instinctual at that age. In some sense, only the other person’s actions exist, because that’s all they can experience. And at some point we develop this weird ‘hovering above the entire scenario like some kind of disembodied consciousness’ way of seeing so that we see our own actions and those of other people almost simultaneously.


To continue that analogy with societies, I guess the point where societies develop that kind of consciousness - I cherish my own system, self, and way of being, but see and value others as well - would be something like its adolescence. Sometimes hard won through realizing my way or the highway will ultimately never work out. I feel like I’m always quoting Russell, but I find him so salient and clear on many such issues:

Gradually weariness resulting from the wars of religion led to the growth of belief in religious toleration, which was one of the sources of the movement which developed into eighteenth- and nineteenth-century liberalism.


The results of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, in the intellectual sphere, were at first wholly bad, but ultimately beneficial. The Thirty Years’ War persuaded everybody that neither Protestants nor Catholics could be completely victorious; it became necessary to abandon the medieval hope of doctrinal unity, and this increased men’s freedom to think for themselves, even about fundamentals. The diversity of creeds in different countries made it possible to escape persecution by living abroad. Disgust with theological warfare turned the attention of able men increasingly to secular learning, especially mathematics and science. These are among the reasons for the fact that, while the sixteenth century, after the rise of Luther is philosophically barren, the seventeenth contains the greatest names and makes the most notable advance since Greek times.


I guess I see this all as a natural process of growth and evolution, although admittedly, that is just based on my observation of patterns in the world, not anything substantial.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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07 October 2014 12:42
 
Danna - 06 October 2014 07:38 PM

Until the politically correct element of hands off criticizing Islam in the West changes will be slow to occur.  Both Christianity and Islam carry all ethnic groups within its framework,  more about religious superiority, not racial.  I think societies rooting out and picking away at fundamentalism as a good start.

I agree in theory. But how do we “root out” and “pick away” at fundamentalism when anytime the ME produces something terrible like ISIS Westerners frustrate the issue by overcompensating with cultural sensitivity (See Ben Affleck) instead of breaking down Islam and all of religion as one of the main contributing factors even despite all the others?  A religion is often harmful awareness month? I joke but I’m really interested in hearing your response.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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07 October 2014 12:51
 

Is it “one true religion” or “I (and my family, tribe, race, etc) is better than you are?”  Which comes first?

 
 
Jb8989
 
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07 October 2014 12:56
 
Skipshot - 06 October 2014 09:21 PM

jb, you are describing how men divide one another out of fear and/or suspicion, or just as a way of creating group solidarity.  Religion is just one way men do this and it is not the originator.  People fight over anything - sport teams, kinds of sports (I still catch shit for playing a homoerotic game while wearing a grape smuggling costume (water polo)), politics, money, food, clothes, side of town, blah, blah, blah. . .  Why?  I don’t really know, but it may have something to do with a need for validation of one’s beliefs and preferences, and a need to be always right.

And I agree this thinking holds us back and down.  We do better by and for each other when we seek common ground.

Yes but can you think of another larger formal institution where its beliefs and practices produce as many members who view people with divergent views as ill-guided, evil, mistaken, or in need of being “saved?” I think it’s a fact that even though people fight over a lot of different things, in totality more wars have been fought over religious indifferences than for any other cause. I’m wondering if submission to the context of One True Religion is the main contributing factor?

 
 
Jb8989
 
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07 October 2014 12:58
 
Dennis Campbell - 07 October 2014 10:51 AM

Is it “one true religion” or “I (and my family, tribe, race, etc) is better than you are?”  Which comes first?

Where is the latter codified and with what regularity similar to religion?

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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07 October 2014 13:06
 
jb8989 - 07 October 2014 10:58 AM
Dennis Campbell - 07 October 2014 10:51 AM

Is it “one true religion” or “I (and my family, tribe, race, etc) is better than you are?”  Which comes first?

Where is the latter codified and with what regularity similar to religion?

Just thinking that “I am better than you” is a mind set formed before religion, though they feed on each other.

 
 
Bugs Bunny
 
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07 October 2014 23:09
 
jb8989 - 07 October 2014 10:42 AM
Danna - 06 October 2014 07:38 PM

Until the politically correct element of hands off criticizing Islam in the West changes will be slow to occur.  Both Christianity and Islam carry all ethnic groups within its framework,  more about religious superiority, not racial.  I think societies rooting out and picking away at fundamentalism as a good start.

I agree in theory. But how do we “root out” and “pick away” at fundamentalism when anytime the ME produces something terrible like ISIS Westerners frustrate the issue by overcompensating with cultural sensitivity (See Ben Affleck) instead of breaking down Islam and all of religion as one of the main contributing factors even despite all the others?  A religion is often harmful awareness month? I joke but I’m really interested in hearing your response.

The moderates and reformers of Islam given a stronger voice from media,  are the ones to root out fundamentalist teachings.  We bring back the comedy of the past pre-political correctness, skits like the old Saturday nite live shows for the picking part.  Remember the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts, and Don Rickles?  This time the “roasts” will be tailor made for the monotheistic religions.  The man or woman of the hour would be replaced with the religion of the hour, a comedy skit intended to help people learn to laugh and not take their religions so seriously.  The very best Jewish, Muslim and Christian comedians will now work in a co-op effort with the reformers. Cultural sensitivity now revolves around them, not any of the monotheistic faiths.   

If it doesn’t work,  then we’ll need to re-convert back into the fold,  I’ll send you my Left Behind book series with bible verses so you can get caught up on the rapture details.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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08 October 2014 14:45
 
Danna - 07 October 2014 09:09 PM
jb8989 - 07 October 2014 10:42 AM
Danna - 06 October 2014 07:38 PM

Until the politically correct element of hands off criticizing Islam in the West changes will be slow to occur.  Both Christianity and Islam carry all ethnic groups within its framework,  more about religious superiority, not racial.  I think societies rooting out and picking away at fundamentalism as a good start.

I agree in theory. But how do we “root out” and “pick away” at fundamentalism when anytime the ME produces something terrible like ISIS Westerners frustrate the issue by overcompensating with cultural sensitivity (See Ben Affleck) instead of breaking down Islam and all of religion as one of the main contributing factors even despite all the others?  A religion is often harmful awareness month? I joke but I’m really interested in hearing your response.

The moderates and reformers of Islam given a stronger voice from media,  are the ones to root out fundamentalist teachings.  We bring back the comedy of the past pre-political correctness, skits like the old Saturday nite live shows for the picking part.  Remember the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts, and Don Rickles?  This time the “roasts” will be tailor made for the monotheistic religions.  The man or woman of the hour would be replaced with the religion of the hour, a comedy skit intended to help people learn to laugh and not take their religions so seriously.  The very best Jewish, Muslim and Christian comedians will now work in a co-op effort with the reformers. Cultural sensitivity now revolves around them, not any of the monotheistic faiths.   

If it doesn’t work,  then we’ll need to re-convert back into the fold,  I’ll send you my Left Behind book series with bible verses so you can get caught up on the rapture details.

In Russian literature and poetry “the comedian” (one example would be the court jester) was frequently portrayed as the wisest of the rest of the characters. Their culture historically believed his power to insult and ridicule with impunity was very powerful.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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08 October 2014 15:27
 
Danna - 07 October 2014 09:09 PM
jb8989 - 07 October 2014 10:42 AM
Danna - 06 October 2014 07:38 PM

Until the politically correct element of hands off criticizing Islam in the West changes will be slow to occur.  Both Christianity and Islam carry all ethnic groups within its framework,  more about religious superiority, not racial.  I think societies rooting out and picking away at fundamentalism as a good start.

I agree in theory. But how do we “root out” and “pick away” at fundamentalism when anytime the ME produces something terrible like ISIS Westerners frustrate the issue by overcompensating with cultural sensitivity (See Ben Affleck) instead of breaking down Islam and all of religion as one of the main contributing factors even despite all the others?  A religion is often harmful awareness month? I joke but I’m really interested in hearing your response.

If it doesn’t work,  then we’ll need to re-convert back into the fold,  I’ll send you my Left Behind book series with bible verses so you can get caught up on the rapture details.

I’m fucked if there’s a rapture. haha

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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08 October 2014 15:42
 
jb8989 - 06 October 2014 06:16 PM

I think we can all agree that this is a crock of shit. But it’s also rarely parsed out as a separate religious issue altogether.

IMO Most theists are raised to believe that their religion is the one true religion - and that they will go to heaven, while everyone who believes in another religion is a “heathen” who will be eternally damned. A person with this belief system comes to the conclusion - see BM - that he or she is one of “God’s chosen few.” Feeling superior to others often leads a person to devalue “heathens,” and then to treat or think of them in an inferior way. The influence of belief in the “one true religion” has led to an extensive number of wars between societies, each of it was convinced its religion was superior. Such societies - see ME currently - think/thought they were justified in spreading their chosen religion through any possible means, including by physical force and death. My hypothesis is that the belief in “one true religion” may be the most crucial religious subset determinant in developing an attitudinal system of racial prejudice. I can’t imagine any religion being nearly as misguided and culturally dissonant without this particular concept embedded within its scripture and teachings, and that penetrating this belief will be the next and most substantial step toward secular progression, even if the doctrine otherwise remains intact. Do you agree? How could this be achieved?

What’s funny and ludicrous to me is most of the people of the world who believe in “one true religion” are either Christian, Muslim, or Jew - If we could only get rid of the Abramic God, 90 % of today’s bullets, bombs and deaths would be stopped cold. (and no “rapture either)
gregory

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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08 October 2014 16:06
 

What’s funny and ludicrous to me is most of the people of the world who believe in “one true religion” are either Christian, Muslim, or Jew - If we could only get rid of the Abramic God, 90 % of today’s bullets, bombs and deaths would be stopped cold.

Nah, we’d kill each other over land, food, women, money, power, resources, skin color…..don’t need religion to do it.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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08 October 2014 17:12
 
Dennis Campbell - 08 October 2014 02:06 PM

What’s funny and ludicrous to me is most of the people of the world who believe in “one true religion” are either Christian, Muslim, or Jew - If we could only get rid of the Abramic God, 90 % of today’s bullets, bombs and deaths would be stopped cold.

Nah, we’d kill each other over land, food, women, money, power, resources, skin color…..don’t need religion to do it.

True Dr Wonderful, but do you have at least the suspicion that if there were not an Abramic God, right now today, a vast percentage of bullets, bombs and death would not be? You may say that these Abramic God people would find something else to kill for instead of their God, but what if we were creative enough to provide the children, all the children, clean water, a toilet, and parents who earn a livable wage?

 
 
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