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“I’m convinced he and I will sit on the same fence and chat amicably about the foolishness of certitude.”—saralynn, 24 November, 2013

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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30 October 2014 02:07
 
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?  His private, personal faith, unlike mainstream Islam and Christianity does not attempt to convert, coerce,  or threaten anyone else that does not wish to join.

It doesn’t matter, as I said, pointless. Why does it matter to you?

 
 
Bugs Bunny
 
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Bugs Bunny
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30 October 2014 02:20
 
GAD - 30 October 2014 01:07 AM
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?  His private, personal faith, unlike mainstream Islam and Christianity does not attempt to convert, coerce,  or threaten anyone else that does not wish to join.

It doesn’t matter, as I said, pointless. Why does it matter to you?

You did say pointless, and on that I would agree, certainly now in my life anyway.  I teeter sometimes between concern for the person who would wish to embrace a personal faith, separation of church and state, and an intrusive government into our personal thoughts and lives.  I guess it is a balance thing, and it is not always easy to know where or how to draw the line.  My mistake on not reading your post accurately.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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30 October 2014 02:38
 
Danna - 30 October 2014 01:20 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 01:07 AM
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?  His private, personal faith, unlike mainstream Islam and Christianity does not attempt to convert, coerce,  or threaten anyone else that does not wish to join.

It doesn’t matter, as I said, pointless. Why does it matter to you?

You did say pointless, and on that I would agree, certainly now in my life anyway.  I teeter sometimes between concern for the person who would wish to embrace a personal faith, separation of church and state, and an intrusive government into our personal thoughts and lives.  I guess it is a balance thing, and it is not always easy to know where or how to draw the line.  My mistake on not reading your post accurately.

Passive declarations of faith in magic are much preferred over aggressive ones but they are nevertheless still declarations of faith in magic.

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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30 October 2014 02:47
 
bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I have not always been a believer.  For the first 40 or so years of my life, I was agnostic/atheistic.  I have used every argument against belief in God as I’ve read in these forums, as well as some others that I haven’t seen here.  But that was changed.  I have had revelations.  A couple I am unable to adequately describe, as they were neither visual nor audible.  A number have been visual, and a couple audible.  However, I will offer neither descriptions nor explanations, as I know such would be fruitless.

[size=3]I am a believer. . . .

Have any big pieces of dust or ash caught you upside the head recently, bb?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2865009.stm

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 October 2014 06:59
 
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

Dismiss it as you will, I shall offer no counterpoint, no historical context, no proof.  Feel free to be as vehemently denigrative as you wish; it is meaningless.

bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I do not hold that God is “supernatural”.  It is my understanding that God is “nature”, to nature’s fullest extent.  My faith is nonapologetic, nor does it require acceptance.

[ Edited: 30 October 2014 07:34 by bbearren]
 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 October 2014 07:07
 
Danna - 29 October 2014 10:14 PM

Cool BB.  I thought maybe you did have a belief, just could not tell which direction from your posts.  And, I have no interest in denigrating your private religious belief. 
Just out of curiosity,  is The Way the same as the group known as the Jerusalem church,  same as the Nazarenes, or a later sect called the Ebionites?  Of all the Jesus personalities given to us throughout history, these guys,  were my favorite.   
They believed Jesus was singled out by God, but not divine.  The miracle of the resurrection,  while no abrogation of the Torah.  They had no interest in converting people,  that stuff came with the church teachings later.    I thought the group disappeared in the Jewish War against Rome.

It is my understanding that The Way were original followers of Jesus, who heard him teach and preach; the earliest church described in the book of Acts, before the wave of evangelizing began to spread..

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 October 2014 07:22
 
envy me - 30 October 2014 01:47 AM
bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I have not always been a believer.  For the first 40 or so years of my life, I was agnostic/atheistic.  I have used every argument against belief in God as I’ve read in these forums, as well as some others that I haven’t seen here.  But that was changed.  I have had revelations.  A couple I am unable to adequately describe, as they were neither visual nor audible.  A number have been visual, and a couple audible.  However, I will offer neither descriptions nor explanations, as I know such would be fruitless.

I am a believer. . . .

Have any big pieces of dust or ash caught you upside the head recently, bb?

bbearren - 25 November 2013 09:37 PM

NDGT’s 7%.

“Until that number is zero, you’ve got nothing to say to the general public.  These are scientists among us, in the national academy of sciences, who are religious and pray to a personal god and I know some of them.  And you’re fighting the public for their religious beliefs?

Figure that one out (the seven percent) first, because maybe, there’s an asymptote.  Maybe, you can’t change everybody.  Maybe that’s telling us something.  Maybe there’s something in the brain wiring that positively prevents some people from ever being an atheist.

And if that’s the case, in a way they can’t help it.  And you’ll never know it, because you’re not one of them.  So I ask you, first for compassion with the public, but you should target your exercise and your experiments on understanding that number, because that’s not zero; yes, it’s low, but it’s not one percent, it’s not one half of a percent, or a tenth of a percent, it is seven percent, one out of fourteen.”

No tumor(s).

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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30 October 2014 09:34
 
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?

Because he votes.

 
nv
 
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nv
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30 October 2014 09:48
 
bbearren - 30 October 2014 06:22 AM
envy me - 30 October 2014 01:47 AM
bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I have not always been a believer.  For the first 40 or so years of my life, I was agnostic/atheistic.  I have used every argument against belief in God as I’ve read in these forums, as well as some others that I haven’t seen here.  But that was changed.  I have had revelations.  A couple I am unable to adequately describe, as they were neither visual nor audible.  A number have been visual, and a couple audible.  However, I will offer neither descriptions nor explanations, as I know such would be fruitless.

I am a believer. . . .

Have any big pieces of dust or ash caught you upside the head recently, bb?

bbearren - 25 November 2013 09:37 PM

NDGT’s 7%.

“Until that number is zero, you’ve got nothing to say to the general public.  These are scientists among us, in the national academy of sciences, who are religious and pray to a personal god and I know some of them.  And you’re fighting the public for their religious beliefs?

Figure that one out (the seven percent) first, because maybe, there’s an asymptote.  Maybe, you can’t change everybody.  Maybe that’s telling us something.  Maybe there’s something in the brain wiring that positively prevents some people from ever being an atheist.

And if that’s the case, in a way they can’t help it.  And you’ll never know it, because you’re not one of them.  So I ask you, first for compassion with the public, but you should target your exercise and your experiments on understanding that number, because that’s not zero; yes, it’s low, but it’s not one percent, it’s not one half of a percent, or a tenth of a percent, it is seven percent, one out of fourteen.”

No tumor(s).

Bbearen, I have no intention of attempting to badger you. But you’ve apparently mischaracterized my life in your boldfaced objection above. Shortly after my 17th birthday, I had two apparently TLE-related visions, the first of which most likely pushed me along a trajectory of existential feebleness for more than 2 decades. I hope your experience works out more to your advantage than mine did. I like you as a person, and wish for you only the best.

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 October 2014 10:45
 
jdrnd - 30 October 2014 08:34 AM
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?

Because he votes.

Yes, I vote. I vote for same-sex marriage equality, I vote for a woman’s right to make her own health decisions, I can easily be classified as a liberal/progressive. I am against religion meddling in education, I am for making education more affordable and accessible for all. Any other issues with my right to vote?

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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30 October 2014 11:22
 
bbearren - 30 October 2014 09:45 AM

Any other issues with my right to vote?


Mosquito rights?

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 October 2014 11:42
 
envy me - 30 October 2014 08:48 AM

Bbearen, I have no intention of attempting to badger you. But you’ve apparently mischaracterized my life in your boldfaced objection above. Shortly after my 17th birthday, I had two apparently TLE-related visions, the first of which most likely pushed me along a trajectory of existential feebleness for more than 2 decades. I hope your experience works out more to your advantage than mine did. I like you as a person, and wish for you only the best.

The boldface is from the original post in November of ‘13, not directed toward you. In the NDGT video, he emphasized that statement.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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30 October 2014 12:56
 
bbearren - 30 October 2014 09:45 AM
jdrnd - 30 October 2014 08:34 AM
Danna - 30 October 2014 12:36 AM
GAD - 30 October 2014 12:28 AM

Just another pointless version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition, declared as faith to cover up the smell.

So why should it matter?

Because he votes.

Yes, I vote. I vote for same-sex marriage equality, I vote for a woman’s right to make her own health decisions, I can easily be classified as a liberal/progressive. I am against religion meddling in education, I am for making education more affordable and accessible for all. Any other issues with my right to vote?

So basically you don’t follow anything your gods holy books say.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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30 October 2014 13:15
 
bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I have not always been a believer.  For the first 40 or so years of my life, I was agnostic/atheistic.  I have used every argument against belief in God as I’ve read in these forums, as well as some others that I haven’t seen here.  But that was changed.  I have had revelations.  A couple I am unable to adequately describe, as they were neither visual nor audible.  A number have been visual, and a couple audible.  However, I will offer neither descriptions nor explanations, as I know such would be fruitless.

I am a believer.  I believe in God.  I believe God.  I believe in Christ.  I believe Christ.  My faith, however, is not like the faith of EN; I haven’t tossed the Old Testament, nor picked only my favorites from the New Testament.  My faith is not like the faith of Mario.  I’m not Catholic, I don’t hold the Pope or Mary in any holy regard, and there is no scriptural foundation for a so-called “doctrine of the trinity”.  I don’t subscribe to any theology, and have as little use for theology as I have for philosophy.

I have no intention of trying to convince/convert anyone.  I have no concern regarding whether or not my faith should be viewed as some alternative possible truth.  It does not matter.  Dismiss it as you will, I shall offer no counterpoint, no historical context, no proof.  Feel free to be as vehemently denigrative as you wish; it is meaningless.

I do not hold that God is “supernatural”.  It is my understanding that God is “nature”, to nature’s fullest extent.  My faith is nonapologetic, nor does it require acceptance.  It is mine; it does not meld fully with any denomination of which I am aware.  I do not consider myself a “christian” in the denoted sense of that word in today’s culture.  The earliest believers in Christ were known as followers of The Way; to that, I could ascribe.

And, as always, I’m easy to ignore.


People have always tried to conceptualize their beliefs in god within and around the magnitude of what can be considered “nature.” It’s a form of cognitive dissonance that results when theists attempt to make the god delusion comprehensible from a naturally adaptive standpoint. Also, in my opinion BB your post seems to me to be worded defensively, in a seeming attempt to close it off from opinion and rebuttal; Am I correct with this statement? 

I imagine your “understanding that god is nature” isn’t an interpretation, correct? Because you’ve already made it decidedly clear that you in no way interpret; remember? Wouldn’t it then follow that your understanding of god is different from that of Mario’s, EN’s and other’s in regard to the fact that you have made no interpretation of what god is? While they have admittedly interpreted text, scripture, science, their environment, culture findings and paradigm shifts etc. in formulating their understandings of who, what, when, and how god is, how did you come to “YOUR UNDERSTANDING” that god is nature without subscribing to a different definition and therefore a subjective interpretation of god and nature? Because scientifically and definitively nature and god are not the same. And because you made the claim that you have “little use for theology and philosophy,” I’m wondering with what form of discourse - if not science, philosophy, or theology - you’re using to define god and nature, as well as their oneness?

[ Edited: 30 October 2014 14:27 by Jb8989]
 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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30 October 2014 14:19
 
bbearren - 29 October 2014 06:26 PM

I have not always been a believer.  For the first 40 or so years of my life, I was agnostic/atheistic.  I have used every argument against belief in God as I’ve read in these forums, as well as some others that I haven’t seen here.  But that was changed.  I have had revelations.  A couple I am unable to adequately describe, as they were neither visual nor audible.  A number have been visual, and a couple audible.  However, I will offer neither descriptions nor explanations, as I know such would be fruitless.

I am a believer.  I believe in God.  I believe God.  I believe in Christ.  I believe Christ.  My faith, however, is not like the faith of EN; I haven’t tossed the Old Testament, nor picked only my favorites from the New Testament.  My faith is not like the faith of Mario.  I’m not Catholic, I don’t hold the Pope or Mary in any holy regard, and there is no scriptural foundation for a so-called “doctrine of the trinity”.  I don’t subscribe to any theology, and have as little use for theology as I have for philosophy.

I have no intention of trying to convince/convert anyone.  I have no concern regarding whether or not my faith should be viewed as some alternative possible truth.  It does not matter.  Dismiss it as you will, I shall offer no counterpoint, no historical context, no proof.  Feel free to be as vehemently denigrative as you wish; it is meaningless.

I do not hold that God is “supernatural”.  It is my understanding that God is “nature”, to nature’s fullest extent.  My faith is nonapologetic, nor does it require acceptance.  It is mine; it does not meld fully with any denomination of which I am aware.  I do not consider myself a “christian” in the denoted sense of that word in today’s culture.  The earliest believers in Christ were known as followers of The Way; to that, I could ascribe.

And, as always, I’m easy to ignore.

This seems like another thread about you, but it’s in the Christianity section, yet you claim the your faith doesn’t mend well with any denomination. You can’t live with supernatural beliefs and pretend to want no part of the supernatural.

 
 
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