Original Mind

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8630
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
24 January 2015 16:40
 

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
Avatar
 
 
Dennis Campbell
Total Posts:  19830
Joined  20-07-2007
 
 
 
24 January 2015 20:28
 
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Sorry, I’m missing your point.  My problem, not your’s.

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15844
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
25 January 2015 02:50
 
Dennis Campbell - 24 January 2015 07:28 PM
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Sorry, I’m missing your point.  My problem, not your’s.

If you want to understand this you have to travel back in time and kill your grandfather before he met your grandmother.

Or, lacking a time machine, follow the indications below (a list for you):

1. Undress
2. Bend over and insert toes in mouth
3. Start chewing
4. Keep stuffing toes, then feet, ankles, calves, thighs, and so on into mouth
5. Keep chewing.

What happens when you get to your lips?

 
Dennis Campbell
 
Avatar
 
 
Dennis Campbell
Total Posts:  19830
Joined  20-07-2007
 
 
 
25 January 2015 12:25
 
burt - 25 January 2015 01:50 AM
Dennis Campbell - 24 January 2015 07:28 PM
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Sorry, I’m missing your point.  My problem, not your’s.

If you want to understand this you have to travel back in time and kill your grandfather before he met your grandmother.

Or, lacking a time machine, follow the indications below (a list for you):

1. Undress
2. Bend over and insert toes in mouth
3. Start chewing
4. Keep stuffing toes, then feet, ankles, calves, thighs, and so on into mouth
5. Keep chewing.

What happens when you get to your lips?

Thanks!  That was sooo much help!

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15844
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
25 January 2015 14:02
 
Dennis Campbell - 25 January 2015 11:25 AM
burt - 25 January 2015 01:50 AM
Dennis Campbell - 24 January 2015 07:28 PM
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Sorry, I’m missing your point.  My problem, not your’s.

If you want to understand this you have to travel back in time and kill your grandfather before he met your grandmother.

Or, lacking a time machine, follow the indications below (a list for you):

1. Undress
2. Bend over and insert toes in mouth
3. Start chewing
4. Keep stuffing toes, then feet, ankles, calves, thighs, and so on into mouth
5. Keep chewing.

What happens when you get to your lips?

Thanks!  That was sooo much help!

Any time.

(In the gook Glory Road by Robert A Heinlein there is a battle between the hero and a troll. The hero eventually disposes of the troll by the above mentioned method and the heroine exclaims “you never told me you were a mathematician!”)

 
Brick Bungalow
 
Avatar
 
 
Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5137
Joined  28-05-2009
 
 
 
25 January 2015 14:37
 

Mainstream varieties seem unlikely to do something like this but there are meditative variations that ask questions and think abstractly. Muslims in particular, actually. I’ve spoken with some who describe finding the face of god in inanimate objects and contemplating the possibility that a human beings failure to appreciate the divine in its mundane aspect is a purely personal failure. The human insistence on seeing god as a motivated agent is a reflection of OUR politics and ambitions. I suspect that I have no real dispute with believers who can own their own prejudices and not blame them on god..

I think this potential exists in a variety of traditions and can manifest when there is a plural, seaport society that doesn’t use religious belief as political leverage. A little peace, quite and respite from the scramble for survival makes all sorts of things possible.

[ Edited: 25 January 2015 14:40 by Brick Bungalow]
 
sojourner
 
Avatar
 
 
sojourner
Total Posts:  5970
Joined  09-11-2012
 
 
 
27 January 2015 17:01
 

Like this post, unsmoked. I see an inevitable pattern in myself when I meditate seriously. Step 1, I feel a sense of spaciousness and slightly lower self-interest, and start behaving with more thoughtfulness of others as a natural, not forced, outcome. Step 2, I start to feel good about the fact that I am being “nice” and doing “good deeds” in little ways. Step 3, I act like an inconsiderate shithead. Step 4, I bemoan acting like a shithead because “I” want to be “good” and I was starting to do so “good” with it! Step 5, I realize the whole point of this exercise is that it’s not supposed to be about “I”. Step 6, wash, rinse, repeat.


I think I’ve said before, I find this comparable to the Christian concept of “we’re all broken sinners, nothing is possible without God”. European Christians were more of the drama queen variety, ha ha, so they phrased it in more overwrought, angsty terms, but I think the concept is the same. The minute you try to find what you’re looking for in and through your own ego, you’ve already lost that battle. That part of the mind, without awareness, is a tightly bound chain of conditioned cause and effect - efforts to see outside of itself can only come from another part of the self, which is not much of a solution. But it does seem as if there’s a mechanism to do that, whether you want to chalk that up to Original Mind or the true nature of consciousness or just some quirk of the brain.

 
 
samyag-drsti
 
Avatar
 
 
samyag-drsti
Total Posts:  101
Joined  20-04-2014
 
 
 
31 January 2015 22:33
 

I am not a Buddhist but do attempt, sometimes feebly, to practice the basic tenets of Buddhism. After cheating death twice, the second time with no chance of survival save emergency open heart surgery performed by a brilliant surgeon, I came to the realization that all we have is the present moment. The past is gone, the future an illusion. This draws me to Buddhism which fits my world view infinitely better than dualistic theism. I am a neophyte when it comes to meditation, unlike NicLynn, but recently had a breakthrough, feeling a kind of transcendence of sort, a connection with more than the confines of my body/mind. I am still trying to recreate that, and don’t know exactly how I was able to fall into that state. During and immediately after that experience I enjoyed a few moments, completely calm and without pain, like my body was weightless. And joyful. Can’t remember feeling that good since I was a kid. I am still amazed I could feel that good, sans some serious pain killing drugs, and I want to reach that state again.

 
sojourner
 
Avatar
 
 
sojourner
Total Posts:  5970
Joined  09-11-2012
 
 
 
01 February 2015 14:55
 
samyag-drsti - 31 January 2015 09:33 PM

I am not a Buddhist but do attempt, sometimes feebly, to practice the basic tenets of Buddhism. After cheating death twice, the second time with no chance of survival save emergency open heart surgery performed by a brilliant surgeon, I came to the realization that all we have is the present moment. The past is gone, the future an illusion. This draws me to Buddhism which fits my world view infinitely better than dualistic theism. I am a neophyte when it comes to meditation, unlike NicLynn, but recently had a breakthrough, feeling a kind of transcendence of sort, a connection with more than the confines of my body/mind. I am still trying to recreate that, and don’t know exactly how I was able to fall into that state. During and immediately after that experience I enjoyed a few moments, completely calm and without pain, like my body was weightless. And joyful. Can’t remember feeling that good since I was a kid. I am still amazed I could feel that good, sans some serious pain killing drugs, and I want to reach that state again.


Sounds pretty cool!


I don’t want to misrepresent anything about my love of meditation and ‘spirituality’, just because I like to talk about it a lot doesn’t mean I’m particularly skilled in that area. That’s obvious to me when I’m able to do guided meditations with far more experienced meditators, ha ha, and realize how far away that experience is from my ‘usual’ meditations. For what it’s worth, though, having listening to a lot of more experienced meditators talk about such things, the advice usually seems to be not to get attached to a a ‘good’ state once you experience it. Just stay open to whatever’s there when you sit down to meditate.

 
 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8630
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
01 February 2015 17:14
 
NicLynn - 01 February 2015 01:55 PM
samyag-drsti - 31 January 2015 09:33 PM

I am not a Buddhist but do attempt, sometimes feebly, to practice the basic tenets of Buddhism. After cheating death twice, the second time with no chance of survival save emergency open heart surgery performed by a brilliant surgeon, I came to the realization that all we have is the present moment. The past is gone, the future an illusion. This draws me to Buddhism which fits my world view infinitely better than dualistic theism. I am a neophyte when it comes to meditation, unlike NicLynn, but recently had a breakthrough, feeling a kind of transcendence of sort, a connection with more than the confines of my body/mind. I am still trying to recreate that, and don’t know exactly how I was able to fall into that state. During and immediately after that experience I enjoyed a few moments, completely calm and without pain, like my body was weightless. And joyful. Can’t remember feeling that good since I was a kid. I am still amazed I could feel that good, sans some serious pain killing drugs, and I want to reach that state again.


Sounds pretty cool!


I don’t want to misrepresent anything about my love of meditation and ‘spirituality’, just because I like to talk about it a lot doesn’t mean I’m particularly skilled in that area. That’s obvious to me when I’m able to do guided meditations with far more experienced meditators, ha ha, and realize how far away that experience is from my ‘usual’ meditations. For what it’s worth, though, having listening to a lot of more experienced meditators talk about such things, the advice usually seems to be not to get attached to a a ‘good’ state once you experience it. Just stay open to whatever’s there when you sit down to meditate.

Agreed.  Could be the sound of a car outside, the rattle of dishes in the kitchen, a splash of sunlight on the floor, or rain striking the window.  Reality for a moment or two.

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15844
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
01 February 2015 20:18
 
unsmoked - 01 February 2015 04:14 PM
NicLynn - 01 February 2015 01:55 PM
samyag-drsti - 31 January 2015 09:33 PM

I am not a Buddhist but do attempt, sometimes feebly, to practice the basic tenets of Buddhism. After cheating death twice, the second time with no chance of survival save emergency open heart surgery performed by a brilliant surgeon, I came to the realization that all we have is the present moment. The past is gone, the future an illusion. This draws me to Buddhism which fits my world view infinitely better than dualistic theism. I am a neophyte when it comes to meditation, unlike NicLynn, but recently had a breakthrough, feeling a kind of transcendence of sort, a connection with more than the confines of my body/mind. I am still trying to recreate that, and don’t know exactly how I was able to fall into that state. During and immediately after that experience I enjoyed a few moments, completely calm and without pain, like my body was weightless. And joyful. Can’t remember feeling that good since I was a kid. I am still amazed I could feel that good, sans some serious pain killing drugs, and I want to reach that state again.


Sounds pretty cool!


I don’t want to misrepresent anything about my love of meditation and ‘spirituality’, just because I like to talk about it a lot doesn’t mean I’m particularly skilled in that area. That’s obvious to me when I’m able to do guided meditations with far more experienced meditators, ha ha, and realize how far away that experience is from my ‘usual’ meditations. For what it’s worth, though, having listening to a lot of more experienced meditators talk about such things, the advice usually seems to be not to get attached to a a ‘good’ state once you experience it. Just stay open to whatever’s there when you sit down to meditate.

Agreed.  Could be the sound of a car outside, the rattle of dishes in the kitchen, a splash of sunlight on the floor, or rain striking the window.  Reality for a moment or two.

Stuart McLane, host of the CBC program The Vinyl Cafe has cds of stories told on the show. One, called “The Defibrillator” involves a woman who has taken up meditation. She has reached the point where she is bound and determined not to let anything take her out of her meditative state. Then one day, lying on the grass in her back yard, her neighbor Dave looks over the fence and sees her there, apparently passed out. Just so happens that he has a defibrillator handy….

 
hannahtoo
 
Avatar
 
 
hannahtoo
Total Posts:  7176
Joined  15-05-2009
 
 
 
01 February 2015 21:59
 
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Does anyone in the US ever look at the world as though they had never heard of the Super Bowl?

 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  8630
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
02 February 2015 16:11
 
Hannah2 - 01 February 2015 08:59 PM
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Does anyone in the US ever look at the world as though they had never heard of the Super Bowl?

During the final play, did millions of Christian fans forget about Jesus?  Forget about their pending foreclosure?  Their $45,000 hospital bill? 

Game over.  Back to fretting?

fret  vb  1 :    to cause to suffer emotional strain :  VEX -  (Webster)

[ Edited: 02 February 2015 16:21 by unsmoked]
 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15844
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
02 February 2015 18:23
 
unsmoked - 02 February 2015 03:11 PM
Hannah2 - 01 February 2015 08:59 PM
unsmoked - 24 January 2015 03:40 PM

Original Mind

Do the various religious priests and preachers, rabbis and mullahs, ever ask their adherents to look at the world as though they had never heard of their religion?  As though they didn’t know any of the history or tenets of their religion?  As though they had never heard of the founder of their religion?

“Show me your face before your parents were born.”  -  Zen

Does anyone in the US ever look at the world as though they had never heard of the Super Bowl?

During the final play, did millions of Christian fans forget about Jesus?  Forget about their pending foreclosure?  Their $45,000 hospital bill? 

Game over.  Back to fretting?

fret  vb  1 :    to cause to suffer emotional strain :  VEX -  (Webster)

No, man, you have frets on a guitar.