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is science on the brink of disproving free will?

 
jwh
 
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jwh
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12 February 2015 20:06
 

what might be forthcoming from brain science or any science that might disprove free will?

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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12 February 2015 20:32
 
jwh - 12 February 2015 07:06 PM

what might be forthcoming from brain science or any science that might disprove free will?

Dear jwh: Some of us have a disposition to define the word/s which may have differing definitions - though it’s true i lean towards The Oxford - would you kindly tell us which definition of “free will’ you are talking about - gawd! i’d hate to be talking about two different things at the same time. i do prefer to be talking about the same thing - in order for that to come to fruition, please define “free will”.

and if that’s not too much trouble, give me an outstanding source for a premise of yours -  i claim Albert Einstein and his views about “Space and Time In Special relativity”. so what do you have about the “newest” on free will?
gregory

Post Scriptum: I lean towards, if your definition of “free will” is engaging, that this could be an interesting question - but please do give fitting thot to how you decide to define “free will”.

[ Edited: 12 February 2015 20:41 by Gregoryhhh]
 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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12 February 2015 20:35
 

geezee i guess we’ll have to discuss and agree as to, the definition of “brain science” and perhaps even “science”?

 
 
jwh
 
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jwh
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12 February 2015 20:40
 

I define free will as the abilty to choose between alternatives irrespective of genetic inheritance and all experiences, in and out of the womb, mutations in brain and body, and random events, all as they have interacted.

Christianity goes even further and endows all, except children, incompetents and forced, with the ability to recognize moral right and wrong. In other words it is a causeless volition in the words of the Catholic Encyclopedia.

[ Edited: 12 February 2015 20:42 by jwh]
 
jwh
 
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12 February 2015 20:46
 

I am talking about proof that is the result of using the scientific method. If not proof, extremely powerful data not now widely known.

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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12 February 2015 20:54
 
jwh - 12 February 2015 07:40 PM

I define free will as the abilty to choose between alternatives irrespective of genetic inheritance and all experiences, in and out of the womb, mutations in brain and body, and random events, all as they have interacted.

Chritianity goes even further and endows all, except children, incompetents and forced, with the ability to recognize moral right and wrong. In other words it is a causeless volition in the words of the Catholic Encyclopedia.

ok forget the Christianity part , so far so good, as to the definition, BUT i need clarification (definition) of what you meant when you stated ” in . . . the womb” As a father of a child i knew “in the womb” - my child i sang to,  and talked to, and wrote to since she was fives months in - Anyway , what do YOU mean? This child, four months from entering in to the world has the ability to choose to go to Harvard and is four months from being born a heroin addict who 15 years later becomes a mother of a really cool 26 year old gangbanger - um , what? “the ability to choose ()including the kids in the womb)

the abilty to choose between alternatives irrespective of genetic inheritance and all experiences, in the womb, mutations in brain and body, and random events, all as they have interacted.

Um, what?
gregory

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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12 February 2015 20:58
 

the abilty to choose between alternatives

see, i can see that. But you add stuff i dont see.

 
 
jwh
 
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jwh
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12 February 2015 20:59
 

I am not a scientist but it is my understanding that events which take place in the womb affect the child. If so, I include those. If it is not so—and how could you know?—excude the womb.

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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12 February 2015 21:07
 

So the question as i understand it is:

What might be forthcoming from scientific inquiry regarding (as you stated) “the abilty (sic) to choose between alternatives irrespective of genetic inheritance and all experiences, in and out of the womb, mutations in brain and body, and random events, all as they have interacted.”
- See more at: http://www.project-reason.org/forum/viewthread/31850/#375026

Um, you may want to soften your definition of free will somewhat - how about just your beginning “the abilty (sic) to choose - ooh i bet there are thots on that.
gregory

 
 
jwh
 
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jwh
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12 February 2015 21:11
 

methinks you have nothing to say

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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12 February 2015 21:16
 
jwh - 12 February 2015 07:59 PM

I am not a scientist but it is my understanding that events which take place in the womb affect the child. If so, I include those. If it is not so—and how could you know?—excude the womb.

Well funny ( not ha ha )

but i do know.

Though i may not have been paying fitting attention - i spent quite some time in the womb, and a bunch of time deciding to not come out of the womb, and my Mom, my dear sweet loved and lovable Mom said - yes gregory, you just didnt want to come out . She had an angry alcoholic husband who used to rape her while pregnant with me and i decided that i didnt want him treating me like he treated her, and i was my Mom’s fourth child, but the first of the caesarians - they had to cut her open to get me out cuz i was not volunteering for this crap.

gregory

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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Gregoryhhh
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12 February 2015 21:24
 

How ‘bout this: What might be forthcoming from scientific inquiry regarding “the ability to choose”? ?

Here’s an article about the ability to choose - a study from Brown University: Did the actor in question have the capacity to make an intentional and independent choice?

The author further states:
“I find it relieving to know that whether you believe in a soul or not, or have a religion or not, or an assumption about how the universe works, that has very little bearing on how you act as a member of the social community,” said Bertram Malle, professor of cognitive, linguistic and psychological sciences at Brown University and senior author of the new study. “In a sense, what unites us across all these assumptions is we see others as intentional beings who can make choices, and we blame them on the basis of that.”

There’s much more - google it
gregory

 
 
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12 February 2015 21:35
 

As it is said that there are additional dimensions that comprise our world, and they are not necessarily bound by known laws of cause and effect, cannot free will be possibly inserted into our actions via such routes? Who is to say that one or more of those dimensions do not include an invisible hand that permits freedom of choice? The hitherto before unknown omnipresence of these other dimensions in our world could surely be the long sought after Achilles heel in the philosophy of hard determinism that is otherwise all but irrefutable.

https://news.brown.edu/articles/2014/05/freewill

On the other hand, Our ability to make choices — and sometimes mistakes — might arise from random fluctuations in the brain’s background electrical noise, according to a recent study from the Center for Mind and Brain at the University of California, Davis.

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10953

gregory

Post Scriptum; Not to mention trans cranial magnetic stimulation (and it’s relatives).

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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13 February 2015 00:58
 
jwh - 12 February 2015 07:06 PM

what might be forthcoming from brain science or any science that might disprove free will?

Free will has already been disproved simply by virtue of never having been proven in the first place.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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13 February 2015 13:43
 
jwh - 12 February 2015 08:11 PM

methinks you have nothing to say

methinks mi lady doth protest too much (gender neutral).
gregory

 
 
jwh
 
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13 February 2015 13:46
 

Isent that before you finally said something. But what you sent does not address the question so I give up.

 
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