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Is there a place for a Christian in Project Reason?

 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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16 March 2015 21:59
 

bb:
I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”  And that’s just fine, too, but don’t try to sugar-coat it.  It is what it is.

There is a difference between not attempting to understand and disagreement.  Some people do attempt to understand, but conclude with uncertainty, doubt, or flat-out disbelief. 

In my mind, there is always the possibility that there is more than I understand or have experienced.  However, there is a key distinction between provable and unprovable phenomena.  A personal experience within one’s mind is not provable to others.  Therefore, it is in a different realm of ideas than those which are more tangible.  For devoted skeptics, a demonstrable explanation will be accepted over ineffable claims.

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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16 March 2015 23:40
 
Hannah2 - 16 March 2015 08:59 PM

In my mind, there is always the possibility that there is more than I understand or have experienced.  However, there is a key distinction between provable and unprovable phenomena.  A personal experience within one’s mind is not provable to others.  Therefore, it is in a different realm of ideas than those which are more tangible.  For devoted skeptics, a demonstrable explanation will be accepted over ineffable claims.

Whether or not anything from me is ‘accepted’ is unimportant.

bbearren - 01 November 2014 07:56 PM

I’ve been on these forums over a year now, trying to firmly establish that I have neither need nor desire for cred, reputation, intellectual respect, or an opinion worth addressing.  I claim no moral high ground, neither implictly nor explicitly.  I have repeatedly claimed to be only the dust and ashes of exploded stars, the confluence of genetics and experience, none of which have I the right to claim any credit.  I’ve only been along for the ride.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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17 March 2015 10:22
 
SkepticX - 16 March 2015 08:50 AM
EN - 15 March 2015 08:27 PM

I never have any problem with your posts, as they are always reasonable.


I’ll second that.

Very much appreciate the nod fellas.  It would be cool if we could circumvent the dramatic nonsense and get back to the thoughtful posting that used to occur with much more frequency. I’m always surprised when posts elicit overly dramatic reactions.  Pretty funny when that happens.  Stupid really.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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17 March 2015 10:30
 
bbearren - 16 March 2015 10:47 AM

I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”  And that’s just fine, too, but don’t try to sugar-coat it.  It is what it is.

I have no sensitivity threshold, which seems to attract as much or more ire as my belief.  The slings and arrows of atheists (or anyone else, for that matter) are empty, impotent words, and that impotence seems to engender attacks on a more personal level, which are just as impotent.  Such attacks would appear to say more about the attacker than about me, one might surmise.

Your defensive stance accompanied by the use of words like “slings” and “arrows” seems to, indeed, indicate the presence of a heightened sensitivity.  The potential for reasonable religious discussions hinges on the patrons refraining from getting personal and focus on the merits of the argument.  The past year alone may not provide adequate representation of that potential.  When it resembles the place I initially encountered I quite enjoy participating until something comes along to discourage the fun and I bugger off for awhile.  I guess it helps that I happen to like fringe.  It has been interesting watching your inner philosopher come out on this thread, sir, despite your objections to the contrary.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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17 March 2015 10:36
 
NicLynn - 16 March 2015 09:36 AM
SkepticX - 16 March 2015 08:50 AM
EN - 15 March 2015 08:27 PM

I never have any problem with your posts, as they are always reasonable.


I’ll second that.

I’m going to politely disagree, as I’ve been on the receiving end of some bullying behavior by LJ at times (whether you want to call starting two different threads for the sake of mocking my long discursive posts justified or not, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘reason’ one way or the other). That said, I think you’ve grown a lot since you’ve been here, LJ, and I am impressed with that.

When you unabashedly create a personal back story for me, and invent a narrative I never told, that relieves me of all responsibility and any perception of bullying is merely a figment of your own imagination.  Same as it ever was.  Still, it’s a pretty desperate move painting me as a villain so you can play the victim.  How many times are you gonna play this card?  (People may start getting wise.)  Resorting to this facade by dismissing what I say, attempting to drown me out and through this relentless labelling of my character will continue to fail in defining who I am.  Weak as it ever was.  These behaviours are far more demonstrative of character traits you possess.  Those of an actual bully.

I have given you plenty of space around here and you have never shown me the same courtesy.

Now go ahead and put me on ignore.  It’s time.  Please.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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17 March 2015 10:58
 

Well, at least now we cannot be accused of males picking on females!

 
 
sojourner
 
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sojourner
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17 March 2015 12:24
 
LadyJane - 17 March 2015 09:36 AM
NicLynn - 16 March 2015 09:36 AM
SkepticX - 16 March 2015 08:50 AM
EN - 15 March 2015 08:27 PM

I never have any problem with your posts, as they are always reasonable.


I’ll second that.

I’m going to politely disagree, as I’ve been on the receiving end of some bullying behavior by LJ at times (whether you want to call starting two different threads for the sake of mocking my long discursive posts justified or not, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘reason’ one way or the other). That said, I think you’ve grown a lot since you’ve been here, LJ, and I am impressed with that.

When you unabashedly create a personal back story for me, and invent a narrative I never told, that relieves me of all responsibility and any perception of bullying is merely a figment of your own imagination.  Same as it ever was.  Still, it’s a pretty desperate move painting me as a villain so you can play the victim.  How many times are you gonna play this card?  (People may start getting wise.)  Resorting to this facade by dismissing what I say, attempting to drown me out and through this relentless labelling of my character will continue to fail in defining who I am.  Weak as it ever was.  These behaviours are far more demonstrative of character traits you possess.  Those of an actual bully.

I have given you plenty of space around here and you have never shown me the same courtesy.

Now go ahead and put me on ignore.  It’s time.  Please.


I get that this narrative seems true to you, and in that sense I am truly sympathetic to your perceived position. But I also realize I use being “understanding” as a facade for not calling people out on hurtful or unfair behavior, when a more accurate word for my position would be “afraid”. I don’t like the way you treat others here sometimes, LJ, and it’s time for me to grow up and stand up for myself on that front, but I do wish happiness for you at a personal level.

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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Thoughtage
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17 March 2015 15:44
 

I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”

Generally speaking, I agree with this. 

Project Reason is not really about reason, but ideology.  In fairness to members here, even the leading writers on the topic don’t seem to grasp the difference between the two.

Also, Project Reason seems to have a generally higher level of discourse than other atheist forums, and is largely free of the manic mobs of atheist fundies that run rampant on many similar sites.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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17 March 2015 15:47
 
Thoughtage - 17 March 2015 02:44 PM

I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”

Generally speaking, I agree with this. 

Project Reason is not really about reason, but ideology.  In fairness to members here, even the leading writers on the topic don’t seem to grasp the difference between the two.

Also, Project Reason seems to have a generally higher level of discourse than other atheist forums, and is largely free of the manic mobs of atheist fundies that run rampant on many similar sites.

I’ve no more use for them than theist fundies.

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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17 March 2015 15:50
 
LadyJane - 17 March 2015 09:30 AM
bbearren - 16 March 2015 10:47 AM

I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”  And that’s just fine, too, but don’t try to sugar-coat it.  It is what it is.

I have no sensitivity threshold, which seems to attract as much or more ire as my belief.  The slings and arrows of atheists (or anyone else, for that matter) are empty, impotent words, and that impotence seems to engender attacks on a more personal level, which are just as impotent.  Such attacks would appear to say more about the attacker than about me, one might surmise.

Your defensive stance accompanied by the use of words like “slings” and “arrows” seems to, indeed, indicate the presence of a heightened sensitivity.

Just quoting Hamlet—“To be, or not to be- that is the question: whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them.”  As stated, “I have no sensitivity threshold, which seems to attract as much or more ire as my belief.”

LadyJane - 17 March 2015 09:30 AM

The potential for reasonable religious discussions hinges on the patrons refraining from getting personal and focus on the merits of the argument.  The past year alone may not provide adequate representation of that potential.

Did I somehow not make myself clear on that?  I’ve also tried to make clear that I have no argument, I offer no proof, I make no attempt to convince or convert anyone, and I’m easy to ignore.

It has been interesting watching your inner philosopher come out on this thread, sir, despite your objections to the contrary.

bbearren - 25 August 2014 11:48 PM

The Black Hole
I have no use for “philosophy”.  I’m no more than a pebble rolling down a long hill.  My “philosophy” was forged before I ever started school.  It remains unchanged; I’m a day older every morning.

Toward the end of next month, that “day older” will mark my 70th year.  I’m not getting ahead of myself.

[ Edited: 17 March 2015 15:56 by bbearren]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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17 March 2015 15:52
 
Thoughtage - 17 March 2015 02:44 PM

I’ve been here a little over a year, and I have not perused all of Project Reason, but I must say I have seen no indication of anyone (other than another theist) making an attempt to understand the perspective of a theist.  What I’ve seen for the most part is along the lines of “You’re wrong/mistaken/not-using-‘critical’-thinking/delusional/hallucinating/etc.”

Generally speaking, I agree with this. 

Project Reason is not really about reason, but ideology.  In fairness to members here, even the leading writers on the topic don’t seem to grasp the difference between the two.

Also, Project Reason seems to have a generally higher level of discourse than other atheist forums, and is largely free of the manic mobs of atheist fundies that run rampant on many similar sites.

Now if we could only get rid of the manic mobs of theist and agnostic fundies…

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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17 March 2015 16:12
 
NicLynn - 17 March 2015 11:24 AM
LadyJane - 17 March 2015 09:36 AM
NicLynn - 16 March 2015 09:36 AM
SkepticX - 16 March 2015 08:50 AM
EN - 15 March 2015 08:27 PM

I never have any problem with your posts, as they are always reasonable.


I’ll second that.

I’m going to politely disagree, as I’ve been on the receiving end of some bullying behavior by LJ at times (whether you want to call starting two different threads for the sake of mocking my long discursive posts justified or not, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘reason’ one way or the other). That said, I think you’ve grown a lot since you’ve been here, LJ, and I am impressed with that.

When you unabashedly create a personal back story for me, and invent a narrative I never told, that relieves me of all responsibility and any perception of bullying is merely a figment of your own imagination.  Same as it ever was.  Still, it’s a pretty desperate move painting me as a villain so you can play the victim.  How many times are you gonna play this card?  (People may start getting wise.)  Resorting to this facade by dismissing what I say, attempting to drown me out and through this relentless labelling of my character will continue to fail in defining who I am.  Weak as it ever was.  These behaviours are far more demonstrative of character traits you possess.  Those of an actual bully.

I have given you plenty of space around here and you have never shown me the same courtesy.

Now go ahead and put me on ignore.  It’s time.  Please.


I get that this narrative seems true to you, and in that sense I am truly sympathetic to your perceived position. But I also realize I use being “understanding” as a facade for not calling people out on hurtful or unfair behavior, when a more accurate word for my position would be “afraid”. I don’t like the way you treat others here sometimes, LJ, and it’s time for me to grow up and stand up for myself on that front, but I do wish happiness for you at a personal level.

Your passive aggressive approach became clear the moment you deliberately picked a fight out of nowhere.  That hardly comes from someone claiming to be “afraid.”  I can’t imagine what you were hoping to accomplish.  Without providing any evidence or citing any of my posts, to back up your point, you leave me nothing to defend.  All that’s left is the fact that you don’t seem to like me in general.  Argue what I have to say.  There’s no need for the character assassination.  That’s just lazy.

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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Thoughtage
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17 March 2015 16:26
 

I vote we drop any pretension that the thread is about a topic, and just yell at each other in a clear minded honest manner.

All you guys suck! 

Ok, your turn….

 
sojourner
 
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sojourner
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17 March 2015 16:32
 
LadyJane - 17 March 2015 03:12 PM

Your passive aggressive approach became clear the moment you deliberately picked a fight out of nowhere.  That hardly comes from someone claiming to be “afraid.”  I can’t imagine what you were hoping to accomplish.  Without providing any evidence or citing any of my posts, to back up your point, you leave me nothing to defend.  All that’s left is the fact that you don’t seem to like me in general.  Argue what I have to say.  There’s no need for the character assassination.  That’s just lazy.


?

I think I cited my concerns pretty specifically, including two specific threads you started about me. But I agree that this is turning into a silly flame war, so I’ll drop it now - last post on this thread, promise.

I do think it’s good to talk these things out sometimes, LJ, but apologies if I upset you. If you see my point of view, you see it. If not, well, it is what it is and, again, sorry if I upset you. Sincerely. Never any point in making another person’s life harder, life is hard enough already, after all. Hope you have a good day.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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17 March 2015 16:34
 
NicLynn - 17 March 2015 03:32 PM
LadyJane - 17 March 2015 03:12 PM

Your passive aggressive approach became clear the moment you deliberately picked a fight out of nowhere.  That hardly comes from someone claiming to be “afraid.”  I can’t imagine what you were hoping to accomplish.  Without providing any evidence or citing any of my posts, to back up your point, you leave me nothing to defend.  All that’s left is the fact that you don’t seem to like me in general.  Argue what I have to say.  There’s no need for the character assassination.  That’s just lazy.


?

I think I cited my concerns pretty specifically, including two specific threads you started about me. But I agree that this is turning into a silly flame war, so I’ll drop it now - last post on this thread, promise.

I do think it’s good to talk these things out sometimes, LJ, but apologies if I upset you. If you see my point of view, you see it. If not, well, it is what it is and, again, sorry if I upset you. Sincerely. Never any point in making another person’s life harder, life is hard enough already, after all. Hope you have a good day.

The two of you have been altogether too civil.  Males are much more earthy and uncivilized.

 
 
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