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Is there a place for a Christian in Project Reason?

 
Pattertwig
 
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Pattertwig
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27 February 2015 04:44
 

<sniff>

Am I crying with pride at the graduation of a student, or are these Georgia pollen allergies?

DeltaBravo, can you believe how far I’ve taken GAD, our one-line wonderman in just 48 short hours of intensive coaching?

GAD - 27 February 2015 12:37 AM

The second unwritten law here is that assholes who really have nothing to say resort to being grammar Nazi’s to try and look smart and important and distract people the from bullshit that they spew.  I have to admit that yours is one the most extensive rebukes I’m seen making you one of the biggest assholes here in quite a while. And I am honored that you are so threaten by me to spend so much time on such defenses. Word count doesn’t mean shit, and only assholes who post lots of bullshit count them like they do, so no surprise there.

When I promised yesterday that I’d have you writing in full paragraphs by the end of the week, I had no idea that you’d progress so quickly.  Yes, I spent quite a bit if time running your convoluted clump through Lanham analysis, and I found, well not gold, but something worth not throwing away.

But you’ve completely taken me aback by providing an almost correct paragraph structure with early intermediate-stage logic, three days ahead of schedule. The apostrophe you plugged into the word Nazis doesn’t interfere with comprehensibility—so I won’t even mention it.  A-

Please PM me your address so I can send you a graduation certificate and my bill.

Word count doesn’t mean shit

CORRECT! Word count, unimportant in/of itself, serves as a milestone towards better health, like the numbers of the weights you can lift in the gym.  But Lanham’s exercise: reducing lard factor, prepositional phrases, and be-verbs, allows you to say what you mean.  If you actually have something to say, that’s a good thing. 

(EXCEPTION:If you’re a social scientist trying to whore yourself as an “expert witness” in court, then of course increase be verbs and prepositional phrases; be pretentious, wear a very expensive suit, and be as obscure as possible about everything, EXCEPT, of course, about the conclusion that your client is paying you to foist on the judge and jury.  (If your CONCLUSION is obscure, then the Judge and Jury might be tempted to think for themselves, and your expert witness career is over.) 

OTOH if you want to make an argument based on science and reasoning, reduce lard count and emphasize comprehensibility over gibberish.  Is there anything else I can help you with?

[ Edited: 27 February 2015 05:08 by Pattertwig]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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27 February 2015 05:45
 
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 01:06 AM

Please provide QUOTES, from things that I have written here, that demonstrate:

1. My insistence that my religious bullshit deserves “special status”

2. That it’s unfair/unreasonable for you to call any of my religious beliefs “bullshit”

You are a petty LDS apologist here to correct anyone who has a negative view of it. That’s all that need be demonstrate and it has been.

The thing is you can never win here because you have already lost. The BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit, you can’t change that, and that makes the people who follow it ignorant, credulous fools, and you can’t change that either.

But I get it, your parents are Mormon and so likely is most of your family and friends and you want to save them from the embarrassment and ridicule of their asinine beliefs by trying to show that any negative view of Mormonism is a misunderstanding of some sort thereby making Mormonism benign, normal and a nothing to see here move along religion.

 
 
Pattertwig
 
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Pattertwig
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27 February 2015 06:12
 
GAD - 27 February 2015 04:45 AM
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 01:06 AM

Please provide QUOTES, from things that I have written here, that demonstrate:

1. My insistence that my religious bullshit deserves “special status”

2. That it’s unfair/unreasonable for you to call any of my religious beliefs “bullshit”

You are a petty LDS apologist here to correct anyone who has a negative view of it. That’s all that need be demonstrate and it has been.

The thing is you can never win here because you have already lost. The BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit, you can’t change that, and that makes the people who follow it ignorant, credulous fools, and you can’t change that either.

But I get it, your parents are Mormon and so likely is most of your family and friends and you want to save them from the embarrassment and ridicule of their asinine beliefs by trying to show that any negative view of Mormonism is a misunderstanding of some sort thereby making Mormonism benign, normal and a nothing to see here move along religion.

I DID IT!  Look at GAD now!  That was a logical sequence of primitive paragraphs, even demonstrating some grasp of transitions!  Its a secular miracle.  Darwin was right.  Competition between species does enhance evolution.

On the other hand :(
1 it’s entirely failed to answer the questions that I posed it.
2. It leads with its conclusion “you are an LDS apologist” and then utterly fails to substantiate.

“The thing is you can never win here because you have already lost.”

To say that it would have to say what I was trying to win.

the BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit, you can’t change that, and that makes the people who follow it ignorant, credulous fools

But I get it

Doubtful

,

Comma splice

your parents are Mormon and so likely is most of your family

True.

and friends

Ha. Wrong. If you only count folks we’ve met in person, I bet I have more atheist friends than you’ve had in your entire life.

and you want to save them from the embarrassment and ridicule of their asinine beliefs

Right. That’s why I praise and promote the South Park episode of Mormonism.

by trying to show that any negative view of Mormonism is a misunderstanding

Nope.  I’ve admitted stuff right on this board about Brigham Young and Joseph Smith that’s very disturbing to me, to most mormons, and to most atheists I know.

of some sort thereby making Mormonism benign,

Yes

normal

Ha!  No..

and a nothing to see here move along religion.

Only for genuine atheist secularists.  Crypto-fundies will still see it as a terrible threat. I’m totally OK with you mocking mormon beliefs as bullshit; I’ll only take issue when you misrepresent beliefs and/or say things reasonably likely to incite Chapel Hill style violence. (Blood libel analogues).

 
 
GAD
 
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27 February 2015 06:43
 
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 05:12 AM

Only for genuine atheist secularists.  Crypto-fundies will still see it as a terrible threat. I’m totally OK with you mocking mormon beliefs as bullshit; I’ll only take issue when you misrepresent beliefs and/or say things reasonably likely to incite Chapel Hill style violence. (Blood libel analogues).

Genuine atheist secularists know that the BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit and that that makes the people who follow it ignorant, credulous fools, and that some of those fools run for president of the US.

So let’s just get a clear position here;

Mormonism and the BOM are simply human invented and codified nonsense and bullshit.

Yes or no

 
 
Pattertwig
 
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27 February 2015 08:07
 
GAD - 27 February 2015 05:43 AM
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 05:12 AM

Only for genuine atheist secularists.  Crypto-fundies will still see it as a terrible threat. I’m totally OK with you mocking mormon beliefs as bullshit; I’ll only take issue when you misrepresent beliefs and/or say things reasonably likely to incite Chapel Hill style violence. (Blood libel analogues).

Genuine atheist secularists know that the BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit

Perhaps some do, but those who are intellectually honest would probably say say that what you said is “overwhemingly likely,” not “known.”

some of those fools run for president of the US.

Yes, until some poisonous mealy mouthed lout convinces a judge to hold him, Joseph Smith, in jail for “TREASON” so that he can be murdered by the troops who had been assigned to protect him.  God bless America, eh?

Mormonism and the BOM are simply human invented and codified nonsense and bullshit.

Yes or no

In my opinion, no.  But I recognize that reasonable people may hold that position, and unless they come to me and ask me to try to persuade them, I’m perfectly OK with allowing them to believe that Mormonism and the BOM are simply human invented and codified nonsense and bullshit.  So long as they don’t lie and claim that Mormonism and the BOM pose some sort of threat, or make up other stories that seem reasonably likely to incite violence.  My mission companion was beaten before my eyes by someone who had read lies about the LDS church.  My sister was threatened in Bulgaria by a pack of raving shitbags who had been told by American fundamentalists that “mormons throw babies out of windows and tell teenagers to commit suicide.”  Even if I were to somehow shake my belief in God (something I wished I could do when I was angry with him over my son!) I still would denounce liars and tools who incite violence and propagate fear.

[ Edited: 27 February 2015 08:15 by Pattertwig]
 
 
SkepticX
 
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27 February 2015 11:53
 
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 07:07 AM

Perhaps some do, but those who are intellectually honest would probably say say that what you said is “overwhemingly likely,” not “known.”

Only if he were treating the topic far more delicately than we normally treat the vast majority of topics. We “know” the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but it’s really only overwhelmingly likely, for example. We don’t worry over whether we really know this or not, but suddenly when it comes to religion and gods we get all hyper-critical about such microscopic distinctions. This is also why we worry so much over agnosticism and atheism to the point that it leads to misuse of the terms—distorting them out of actual usefulness, sometimes even denying the neutral use (for what it’s worth) by sleight of verbiage.

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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27 February 2015 13:44
 

Because I am a logic nazi, not a grammar nazi.

But, if you’re reading and replying to GAD, you might not be a reason nazi.  grin

 
GAD
 
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27 February 2015 13:45
 
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 07:07 AM
GAD - 27 February 2015 05:43 AM
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 05:12 AM

Only for genuine atheist secularists.  Crypto-fundies will still see it as a terrible threat. I’m totally OK with you mocking mormon beliefs as bullshit; I’ll only take issue when you misrepresent beliefs and/or say things reasonably likely to incite Chapel Hill style violence. (Blood libel analogues).

Genuine atheist secularists know that the BOM is complete and utter nonsense and bullshit

Perhaps some do, but those who are intellectually honest would probably say say that what you said is “overwhemingly likely,” not “known.”

Some might but then they would be idiots not intellectuals. 

Mormonism and the BOM are simply human invented and codified nonsense and bullshit.

Yes or no

In my opinion, no.

That says it all.

 
 
GAD
 
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27 February 2015 13:48
 
Thoughtage - 27 February 2015 12:44 PM

Because I am a logic nazi, not a grammar nazi.

But, if you’re reading and replying to GAD, you might not be a reason nazi.  grin

Says worshiper of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition.

 
 
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27 February 2015 13:52
 
SkepticX - 27 February 2015 10:53 AM

We “know” the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but it’s really only overwhelmingly likely, for example. We don’t worry over whether we really know this or not, but suddenly when it comes to religion and gods we get all hyper-critical about such microscopic distinctions.

Sadly, this is the typical state of Project “Reason”. 

The rising of the sun, something which has not been in dispute since the beginning of time, is compared to religion and gods, the largest longest debate in human history.

Again, it’s Project Ideology, which when effectively challenged mutates in to Project Emotion.

A real Project Reason would be about a quest for objectivity, such as would be valued in any scientific inquiry.  We endlessly chant the words like reason and science, and then at the first moment they become inconvenient we toss them aside.

 
Gregoryhhh
 
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27 February 2015 14:06
 
Pattertwig - 27 February 2015 12:45 AM
Gregoryhhh - 27 February 2015 12:41 AM

Yeah, and an argument (layman’s definition) on the internet, is like a race at the special olympics, even if you win, you’re still retarded.
gregory

My second son was left severely retarded at age 4 by encephalitis.  His limbic region was totally demylelinated in both hemispheres.  I wish to God he was well enough to play in a Special Olympics.  We tried to take him, and it was a catastrophe.

I’m touched by your sensitivity and love of children.  Once a fundy, always a fundy, I guess.

Yeah, i shoulda woulda coulda given a warning that i was going to make an inappropriate politically incorrect remark - sorry. ( i’ll do some research to replace it and may never use it again).
gregory

Post Scriptum: I used to take care of the 2-3 year olds during church service for seven years, and was a big brother to a kid when he was five (he’s 42 now and we write and talk about every month). Not to mention being in college in order to be a middle school science teacher - just sayin.

[ Edited: 27 February 2015 14:27 by Gregoryhhh]
 
 
GAD
 
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27 February 2015 14:07
 
Thoughtage - 27 February 2015 12:52 PM
SkepticX - 27 February 2015 10:53 AM

We “know” the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but it’s really only overwhelmingly likely, for example. We don’t worry over whether we really know this or not, but suddenly when it comes to religion and gods we get all hyper-critical about such microscopic distinctions.

Sadly, this is the typical state of Project “Reason”. 

The rising of the sun, something which has not been in dispute since the beginning of time, is compared to religion and gods, the largest longest debate in human history.

Again, it’s Project Ideology, which when effectively challenged mutates in to Project Emotion.

A real Project Reason would be about a quest for objectivity, such as would be valued in any scientific inquiry.  We endlessly chant the words like reason and science, and then at the first moment they become inconvenient we toss them aside.

Says a worshiper of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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27 February 2015 14:16
 
Thoughtage - 27 February 2015 12:52 PM
SkepticX - 27 February 2015 10:53 AM

We “know” the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but it’s really only overwhelmingly likely, for example. We don’t worry over whether we really know this or not, but suddenly when it comes to religion and gods we get all hyper-critical about such microscopic distinctions.

Sadly, this is the typical state of Project “Reason”. 

The rising of the sun, something which has not been in dispute since the beginning of time, is compared to religion and gods, the largest longest debate in human history.

Again, it’s Project Ideology, which when effectively challenged mutates in to Project Emotion.

A real Project Reason would be about a quest for objectivity, such as would be valued in any scientific inquiry.  We endlessly chant the words like reason and science, and then at the first moment they become inconvenient we toss them aside.

The sun shall not rise tomorrow if we get hit by an heretofore unknown large comet going too fast tonight and the earth is turned into about 42 googolplexes of different pieces - i’m with Skipshot on this; it is only overwhelmingly likely the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
gregory

[ Edited: 27 February 2015 14:25 by Gregoryhhh]
 
 
SkepticX
 
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27 February 2015 14:31
 
Thoughtage - 27 February 2015 12:52 PM
SkepticX - 27 February 2015 10:53 AM

We “know” the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but it’s really only overwhelmingly likely, for example. We don’t worry over whether we really know this or not, but suddenly when it comes to religion and gods we get all hyper-critical about such microscopic distinctions.

Sadly, this is the typical state of Project “Reason”. 

The rising of the sun, something which has not been in dispute since the beginning of time, is compared to religion and gods, the largest longest debate in human history.


The level of certainty is what my comparison is about, not the duration of the debates.

Are you arguing from the perspective that things being compared have to match in all aspects for the comparison to be reasonable?

Did you not get the point of my comparison?

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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27 February 2015 14:46
 

Senior class leaders at South Portland High School want their classmates to know that saying the pledge is optional. But while Maine state law is on their side, a school policy committee is not.

The student, Senior Class President Lily SanGiovanni said “Teachers or substitutes were kind of making students feel uncomfortable if they, perhaps, chose not to,” So she did some research and found state law on her side, which says, “Every student in a Maine public school has the opportunity to say the Pledge of Allegiance, but no student shall be forced to say it.

Lily, who has the microphone, wants to say - ““Would you please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance — if you’d like to.” and the school committee won’t allow the “if you’d like to” part. “We really want students to know faculty can’t force you to do anything,” Lily said. “We really want to educate our fellow students and let them choose for themselves.”

But what she and her fellow class officers didn’t expect was the backlash from the community.There were some people saying we should go to Syria or Russia or Afghanistan and that will change us. It’s really hard to hear that coming from your community

Lily SanGiovanni is no longer allowed to tell students reciting the pledge is optional. But she says she got her message across.

https://bangordailynews.com/2015/02/25/news/portland/controversy-simmers-over-pledge-of-allegiance-at-south-portland-high-school/
gregory

 
 
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