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Meaning of being Secular

 
EdwinRozario
 
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EdwinRozario
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13 March 2015 01:04
 

What must be the meaning of a ‘Secular society’? Should it be ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’. Or the society has no religion, its your private affair.

 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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13 March 2015 06:44
 

Secularism is defined by the lack of interference based on anything besides the rule of human laws.
If a religion does not interfere in the political and judicial process, is tolerant of other religions and respects the human rights of its members (including the right to leave the group at any time), they are perfectly welcome in a secular society. 
Problems only arise when people claim that their divine laws supersede human laws and act on that belief.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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13 March 2015 11:25
 
Twissell - 13 March 2015 05:44 AM

Secularism is defined by the lack of interference based on anything besides the rule of human laws.
If a religion does not interfere in the political and judicial process, is tolerant of other religions and respects the human rights of its members (including the right to leave the group at any time), they are perfectly welcome in a secular society. 
Problems only arise when people claim that their divine laws supersede human laws and act on that belief.

That’s an accurate summary, I believe.  If all religions observed the church/state separation and renounced all religious violence, a secular society that made room for all could be achieved.

 
glacier
 
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glacier
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13 March 2015 18:26
 

To be secular means that you are neutral about religion. You neither persecute, nor elevate particular religions within your nation. One can be quite religious and secular at the same time. Former Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chretien, is a secularist who is also a devoutly religious person. Though officially secular, I would consider North Korea to be non-secular because they are not neutral with regards to religion. Conversely, European nations like Norway and the UK are not technically secular, but certainly they are in practice.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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14 March 2015 04:52
 

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

 
 
EN
 
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14 March 2015 11:53
 
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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14 March 2015 11:57
 
EN - 14 March 2015 10:53 AM
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

Agree.  And the same in reverse.

 
 
GAD
 
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14 March 2015 13:34
 
EN - 14 March 2015 10:53 AM
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

Bad beliefs breed bad behavior, cause and effect.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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14 March 2015 13:52
 
EN - 14 March 2015 10:53 AM
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

But what about people who take their beliefs at face value.

As Gad points out, “Bad beliefs breed bad behavior…”

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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14 March 2015 16:33
 

Western is, I think fundamentally secular. That is to say that practical decisions of authority are made on the basis of reason and parsimony rather that adherence to superstitious tradition. I would never suggest impinging on the right to believe or to worship or to organize civilized religious activity. I simply endorse the same liberty for everyone. Which entails, among other things my right not to respect unjustified authority. Among which I would count religious authority.

In other words, you can do what your bible tells you to do. Up until the point it tells you that you can tell me what to do.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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14 March 2015 16:35
 
Brick Bungalow - 14 March 2015 03:33 PM

Western is, I think fundamentally secular. That is to say that practical decisions of authority are made on the basis of reason and parsimony rather that adherence to superstitious tradition. I would never suggest impinging on the right to believe or to worship or to organize civilized religious activity. I simply endorse the same liberty for everyone. Which entails, among other things my right not to respect unjustified authority. Among which I would count religious authority.

In other words, you can do what your bible tells you to do. Up until the point it tells you that you can tell me what to do.

Well put.  Agree.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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14 March 2015 18:39
 
jdrnd - 14 March 2015 12:52 PM
EN - 14 March 2015 10:53 AM
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

But what about people who take their beliefs at face value.

As Gad points out, “Bad beliefs breed bad behavior…”

Read what I said.  A person’s beliefs are none of society’s, government’s, yours or my business.  Behavior is our business, if it crosses a certain line.  If a person’s beliefs do not make his behavior unacceptable, his beliefs are no one’s concern. Maybe you never understood what this country is about.  Maybe you should brush up on your Thomas Jefferson.

 
EN
 
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14 March 2015 18:40
 
Brick Bungalow - 14 March 2015 03:33 PM

Western is, I think fundamentally secular. That is to say that practical decisions of authority are made on the basis of reason and parsimony rather that adherence to superstitious tradition. I would never suggest impinging on the right to believe or to worship or to organize civilized religious activity. I simply endorse the same liberty for everyone. Which entails, among other things my right not to respect unjustified authority. Among which I would count religious authority.

In other words, you can do what your bible tells you to do. Up until the point it tells you that you can tell me what to do.

Correct.  And you can follow any ideology or idea that you wish, up until the point that you tell me what I can do.  Please explain that to GAD and jdrnd - they don’t seem to understand.

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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14 March 2015 18:43
 
EN - 14 March 2015 05:39 PM
jdrnd - 14 March 2015 12:52 PM
EN - 14 March 2015 10:53 AM
GAD - 14 March 2015 03:52 AM

Given that religion can be defined as any nutty thing you can think of, no it should not ‘tolerate all religions/beliefs’.

It shouldn’t concern itself at all with beliefs.  They are none of its business.  It should concern itself only with behavior.  If we comply with its reasonable secular laws, it should leave us alone.

But what about people who take their beliefs at face value.

As Gad points out, “Bad beliefs breed bad behavior…”

Read what I said.  A person’s beliefs are none of society’s, government’s, yours or my business.  Behavior is our business, if it crosses a certain line.  If a person’s beliefs do not make his behavior unacceptable, his beliefs are no one’s concern. Maybe you never understood what this country is about.  Maybe you should brush up on your Thomas Jefferson.

We agree about the separation of church and state. Human behavior is a different matter.
Don’t take my word for it.  Read the news.  Humans are not angels they are, for lack of a better word, “human”.

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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14 March 2015 18:46
 
EN - 14 March 2015 05:40 PM
Brick Bungalow - 14 March 2015 03:33 PM

Western is, I think fundamentally secular. That is to say that practical decisions of authority are made on the basis of reason and parsimony rather that adherence to superstitious tradition. I would never suggest impinging on the right to believe or to worship or to organize civilized religious activity. I simply endorse the same liberty for everyone. Which entails, among other things my right not to respect unjustified authority. Among which I would count religious authority.

In other words, you can do what your bible tells you to do. Up until the point it tells you that you can tell me what to do.

Correct.  And you can follow any ideology or idea that you wish, up until the point that you tell me what I can do.  Please explain that to GAD and jdrnd - they don’t seem to understand.

No one is telling you what to do.  Just because I remind you that there is no big guy in the sky, doesn’t mean you can’t worship him.  But if you are going to proclaim that such an entity exists, its going to be challenged.

 
EN
 
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EN
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14 March 2015 20:01
 
jdrnd - 14 March 2015 05:46 PM
EN - 14 March 2015 05:40 PM
Brick Bungalow - 14 March 2015 03:33 PM

Western is, I think fundamentally secular. That is to say that practical decisions of authority are made on the basis of reason and parsimony rather that adherence to superstitious tradition. I would never suggest impinging on the right to believe or to worship or to organize civilized religious activity. I simply endorse the same liberty for everyone. Which entails, among other things my right not to respect unjustified authority. Among which I would count religious authority.

In other words, you can do what your bible tells you to do. Up until the point it tells you that you can tell me what to do.

Correct.  And you can follow any ideology or idea that you wish, up until the point that you tell me what I can do.  Please explain that to GAD and jdrnd - they don’t seem to understand.

No one is telling you what to do.  Just because I remind you that there is no big guy in the sky, doesn’t mean you can’t worship him.  But if you are going to proclaim that such an entity exists, its going to be challenged.

You are missing the point of this entire thread, but why am I not surprised.

 
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