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Is there still a place for non-professional posters at Project Reason?

 
Thoughtage
 
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Thoughtage
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24 March 2015 12:49
 
jdrnd - 23 March 2015 10:33 PM

I wonder if current trends continue, if posts from non-professionals such as me, might have decreasing relevance, as those who post here on a professional basis, relegate my/our comments to background noise.

I suspect you would find there is rarely any concern expressed about prolific posters, if they are posting in support of the group consensus of whatever community they are in.  If true, this would suggest it is really the content of posts and not their quantity that is the real issue.

And personally, I would very much like for you to tell us who these professional posters are, so we can inquire in to how much they are being paid.  It’s not at all clear why you are keeping their identity such a mystery.  grin

 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 12:55
 

That said, I have noticed that even some of the staunchest free speech advocates (Jerry Coyne and Glenn Greenwald come to mind as examples of this) will make pretty much their only exception in limiting expression not for content, but for quantity. Posting can turn spam-like after a point, just in sheer drowning out of other views.

I see threads like this as a typical forum realm quest for fantasy victim status. 

Even though members are fully in control of their own reading experience, including such handy highly efficient devices as the ignore feature which automagically removes every post from a particular poster from view, there’s often still a mad scramble to find some way, any way will do, to be able to proclaim oneself a victim of something or somebody.

Perhaps we should start a forum called fantasy-victim.com, so that all those who find such claims enjoyable could do so honestly out in the open?

 
sojourner
 
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24 March 2015 14:24
 
Thoughtage - 24 March 2015 11:55 AM

That said, I have noticed that even some of the staunchest free speech advocates (Jerry Coyne and Glenn Greenwald come to mind as examples of this) will make pretty much their only exception in limiting expression not for content, but for quantity. Posting can turn spam-like after a point, just in sheer drowning out of other views.

I see threads like this as a typical forum realm quest for fantasy victim status. 

Even though members are fully in control of their own reading experience, including such handy highly efficient devices as the ignore feature which automagically removes every post from a particular poster from view, there’s often still a mad scramble to find some way, any way will do, to be able to proclaim oneself a victim of something or somebody.

Perhaps we should start a forum called fantasy-victim.com, so that all those who find such claims enjoyable could do so honestly out in the open?


What about the obsessive need to make meta commentary about this perceived state of affairs, how would you analyze that?


To my mind the best we can usually do is to be honest about our own position. If I’m being honest, I was a bit hurt when I read this thread, because I am certainly guilty of high volume posting at times. But I also want Jeff to have a good experience here, and as he’s started two threads about the behavior of other posters in the past couple of weeks, I assume something’s bugging him and also wanted to attempt to problem solve.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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24 March 2015 14:41
 
NicLynn - 24 March 2015 01:24 PM

I was a bit hurt when I read this thread, because I am certainly guilty of high volume posting at times. ... I also want Jeff to have a good experience here

This is not about you.

I am responsible for my own experience.

There has been a change in the tone of the forum.  This thread and my previous thread is about this subjective observation.  Maybe its not the forum but me who has changed.

 
GAD
 
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24 March 2015 14:53
 
jdrnd - 24 March 2015 01:41 PM
NicLynn - 24 March 2015 01:24 PM

I was a bit hurt when I read this thread, because I am certainly guilty of high volume posting at times. ... I also want Jeff to have a good experience here

This is not about you.

I am responsible for my own experience.

There has been a change in the tone of the forum.  This thread and my previous thread is about this subjective observation.  Maybe its not the forum but me who has changed.

If you weren’t so shy to name names there wouldn’t be any confusion smile

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 14:57
 

What about the obsessive need to make meta commentary about this perceived state of affairs, how would you analyze that?

Perhaps you could help me out with that one, given that you’re doing it too.  grin

To my mind the best we can usually do is to be honest about our own position.

Yes, and then others have the choice of whether they wish to read that position or not.

But I also want Jeff to have a good experience here, and as he’s started two threads about the behavior of other posters in the past couple of weeks, I assume something’s bugging him and also wanted to attempt to problem solve.

Agreed, and I’m trying to problem solve too. 

Jeff will never figure out a way to manage all the inconvenient people on the Net, nor will any of the rest of us. 

The thing we might be able to do is manage is our experience of inconvenient people.

Pretty much everybody already knows this is true but it’s inconvenient to say it out loud, as that tends to spoil the fantasy victim game, one of the net’s more popular sports.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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24 March 2015 14:58
 

There has been a change in the tone of the forum.  This thread and my previous thread is about this subjective observation.  Maybe its not the forum but me who has changed.

Agree re change, am also uncertain if it just me having changed.

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 15:01
 
jdrnd - 24 March 2015 01:41 PM

There has been a change in the tone of the forum.  This thread and my previous thread is about this subjective observation.  Maybe its not the forum but me who has changed.

If you think you’re disappointed now, wait until you’ve searched the net for 20 years and still not really found what you’re looking for.  And then you discover that, oops, you’re too lazy make it yourself as well.  Don’t ask me how I know all this, it’s highly classified top secret stuff.  grin

 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 15:03
 

This is my post where I make vague unspecified mysterious references that everyone is supposed to get without me having to have the balls to actually say it out loud.  grin

 
jdrnd
 
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24 March 2015 15:06
 
GAD - 24 March 2015 01:53 PM

If you weren’t so shy to name names there wouldn’t be any confusion smile

There is no confusion.

All parties are aware.

This is not about blaming anyone.

You must have noticed the difference yourself.

 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 15:32
 

I get, hopefully, that you don’t enjoy talking to posters whom you believe to be adopting some kind of role, or as you call it, persona.  I’m not sure really why you mind this, but accept that you do.

Now you seem to be concerned about the quantity of one or more person’s postings.

So far it’s unknown, at least to me, the degree to which you object to the content of those posts.

If the problem is restricted to a limited number of people, or perhaps only one, it’s easily solved via the ignore function in your control panel. 

Given that you probably know this already, we are having this conversation because…..?

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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24 March 2015 17:21
 

I offer the moderators’ or barkeep’s point of view.


I don’t want anyone to worry about posting volume. I want everyone to post as much as they want to. I want more patrons to hang around here. We can always knock out a wall and set up more tables. The philosophy is simple. Get lots of views out where they can see each other. Like a singles bar. If brains are just meat, then a meat market.

Patrons do not need to be told they are being an idiot. If so, it stands there in the post for all to see. Like a bad application of eyeliner.

I want this forum to feel like a community. A welcoming community. I want patrons to feel like they can share their troubles if they want to. I have no idea, but I hope the PM traffic is voluminous. I love seeing threads play on that I have no interest in at all and nothing to say about. When I tilt my ear to The Dump and hear a chorus of crunching, I feel happy. Should anyone even suspect that I am using admin powers as a poster then tell Mart about it right away. (Yes, I have a sticky. I was encouraged to take several and I took one. It is a forum privilege and thank you very much.) I can’t comment on the ignore function. I’ve never used it.

Jeff’s concern about pro-posters is puzzling. I don’t want him to feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. I agree about a recent changed in tone. I know I can’t drown it out with the jukebox. It’s the din of a school lunch room on some days. Some kids have no talent for reading the room.

There are two angles on volume. There’s posting quantity and then there is posting loudness. If a patron comes in and makes the rounds to each table yelling “Kumquats” and then barfing on things, that’s going to drive other patrons away and keep newcomers from sitting down. This is the pattern that led to our Specimen Containment Policy as carried out by Jar Management. Earning one of our coveted Jars depends on the value placed on the specimen by the patrons. Everyone on the internet knows that we have one of the finest right here.

Anyone who shows up with claims of an atheist consensus or lock-stepping or of this forum being anyone’s cult is simply trying to create a fuss. After one brief chance to offer something of substance, any further repetition of un-echoed yelling is just more barf on the floor to step around.

There’s no secret. Just listen for a bit, the adjust your tone accordingly. Just like we do anywhere else. Read at least as many post as you write. A lot more is even better.

The question becomes, if barfer ain’t worth a Jar, what is left but The Hammer?  Or just a Hammer Holiday?

The Needs of The Forum outweigh the needs of the poster, or the mod.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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24 March 2015 17:52
 
Nhoj Morley - 24 March 2015 04:21 PM

I offer the moderators’ or barkeep’s point of view.

Patrons do not need to be told they are being an idiot….

...I want this forum to feel like a community. A welcoming community. I want patrons to feel like they can share their troubles if they want to.

...I agree about a recent changed in tone. I know I can’t drown it out with the jukebox. It’s the din of a school lunch room on some days. Some kids have no talent for reading the room.


...Anyone who shows up with claims of an atheist consensus or lock-stepping or of this forum being anyone’s cult is simply trying to create a fuss. After one brief chance to offer something of substance, any further repetition of un-echoed yelling is just more barf on the floor to step around.

...Just listen for a bit, then adjust your tone accordingly. ....Read at least as many post as you write. A lot more is even better.

 

You are a diplomat.

 
sojourner
 
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24 March 2015 17:53
 
jdrnd - 24 March 2015 01:41 PM
NicLynn - 24 March 2015 01:24 PM

I was a bit hurt when I read this thread, because I am certainly guilty of high volume posting at times. ... I also want Jeff to have a good experience here

This is not about you.

I am responsible for my own experience.

There has been a change in the tone of the forum.  This thread and my previous thread is about this subjective observation.  Maybe its not the forum but me who has changed.


Agree on both counts - I have scrolled through a few mindsets since beginning here so it’s hard for me to tell. I’ve transitioned from Christian to atheist to generic spiritual type in the past few years, so maybe I am now more sensitive to the opinions of atheists whereas when I identified more with Christians I had thicker skin. Or maybe the tone here is different, dunno.

Thoughtage - 24 March 2015 01:57 PM

What about the obsessive need to make meta commentary about this perceived state of affairs, how would you analyze that?

Perhaps you could help me out with that one, given that you’re doing it too.  grin


Sure - I find hypocrisy and holier-than-thou attitudes irritating, and have the occasional hope that you will reflect on comments that contradict with your cherished (but prolific!) online role-play thing. Tempered by the notion that this unusual form of recreation seems to make you happy so why fix what ain’t broken, an idea further tempered by the idea that your post rate is possibly drowning out other voices so perhaps I should speak up on that front. 


Like you as a person, btw, that’s more a ‘community management’ concern.

Pretty much everybody already knows this is true but it’s inconvenient to say it out loud, as that tends to spoil the fantasy victim game, one of the net’s more popular sports.


You’ve repeated this many many times now. Can’t say that I see it too much here on PR.

 
 
Thoughtage
 
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24 March 2015 22:50
 

Anyone who shows up with claims of an atheist consensus or lock-stepping or of this forum being anyone’s cult is simply trying to create a fuss.

Given that there is an atheist consensus, not in the surface details, but at the fundamental level…

And given that a great many people don’t see this consensus, or understand why it exists…

And given that this site claims to be Project Reason, and thus it would seem to be appropriate to examine the foundations of the perspective it is trying to sell….

A certain amount of fuss making may be helpful in generating interest in challenging topics members might otherwise avoid. 

And, forums users typically like fusses, despite what they may say, which is why threads like The Dump are still rolling right along, years after everyone here agreed it is a waste of time.  This thread is yet another unnecessary fuss which members have joined for it’s entertainment value. 

The nature and degree of fuss making which is constructive, or wanders over the line in to unconstructive, is essentially an artistic decision which can never be made perfectly, given how imperfect all writers are, and given how many different readers there are.  No single formula could possibly be correct in all circumstances.  Whatever one does or doesn’t do, sometimes it will be right, and sometimes wrong.

On top of that, “professional” writers in attendance, whoever they may be, are not being paid, nor have any hope of ever being paid, so readers will just have to make peace with what nerd entertainment is available for free.  Professional writers know that when they are not being paid, all whining from readers can be cheerfully ignored. 

There’s no secret. Just listen for a bit, the adjust your tone accordingly. Just like we do anywhere else.

Meaning no disrespect to anyone, and not really wanting to debate this to the last penny, this is simply not anywhere else. It just isn’t.

Forums are a unique social environment with pros and cons of their own which are often significantly different than the “real world” everyone here keeps using as a reference. 

I would suggest to readers, if you prefer the real world, go there to look for your philosophical conversations.

 
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