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ATTENTION DR. HARRIS

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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18 June 2015 16:22
 
EN - 18 June 2015 02:16 PM

If reason and the abolition of faith are the goal, I should be disqualified.

Not so. You are an example of such. Imagine the things you would have faith in if you were born 400 years ago. You are a crucible.

And, you just recently earned the Good Sport of the Month Award. Buy yourself a beverage and enjoy it.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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18 June 2015 16:49
 
EN - 18 June 2015 02:16 PM
Dennis Campbell - 18 June 2015 02:12 PM

But my presence is not consistent with the stated goal of Project Reason.  My “drama” was comedic - but I’m serious now.  You NEED to get rid of us.  We mess the place up.  It will never be what Jdrnd wants with theists present.

Disagree.  As said many times, IMO the atheism/theism divide should not apply.  Your are an asset, BM a deficit.  Nothing to do with theism.

Not so sure, Dennis.  If a free forum is the goal, I’m at the right place.  If reason and the abolition of faith are the goal, I should be disqualified.

But you are free to self-disqualify any time you think the subject matter of a post or thread is outside of your comfort zone or expertise or preferred bullshit (however you’d like to describe it).

*Bullshit in this case being a description of the act of bullshitting which is pretty much what we all do around here.  Shoot the Shit is largely synonymous, but is not an invitation for JB to mainline bullshit or other defecant.  wink

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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18 June 2015 18:16
 
EN - 18 June 2015 02:07 PM
Jb8989 - 18 June 2015 01:06 PM
EN - 18 June 2015 12:43 PM
jdrnd - 17 June 2015 07:34 PM

Those of us that are regular contributors look forward to a meaningful response concerning your future plans for the Project Reason forum.

Just get rid of the damn theists and quasi-theists and the level of discussion will automatically rise to the Olympian heights that you crave.  We can’t get rid of ourselves because we all have addictive personalities and are deluded.  You must do it.  Just get rid of us and all will be well.  Sam will return and establish his kingdom on this forum.  Your church will be saved.

You know that everyone here likes you, right?

n.

But my presence is not consistent with the stated goal of Project Reason.  My “drama” was comedic - but I’m serious now.  You NEED to get rid of us.  We mess the place up.  It will never be what Jdrnd wants with theists present.

I never really took into account the goal of project reason. I come here for good discussions. They are respite for me from my everyday life where I have lawyer discussions, social workey discussions, or crappy discussions. You’re an awesome contributor here and this place wouldn’t be the same without you. So shut up. I imagine that because you’re in the worldview minority at PR, that it might seem like all we want are atheists. But that’s not even close to the case. Screw the mission. I want more people like the one’s already here that I like reading.

The demeanor of the posters who are consistently engaging people in crappy ways and taking otherwise good thread rhythm and running it through the mud is the issue that I believe Jeff was getting at in his letter. You, sir, have a pretty nice demeanor and make great contributions. I think that you’re sort of an endearing asshole for believing in a god that’s a little bit christian, a little bit hallucination and a lot Texas, but how is that any different from you thinking that I’m a little bit of a pretentious trust fund disillusioned dough bag. To each his own, I say. Except for the BM’s, the trolls, the vitriol slingers, and the people who would rather be right than be present in the conversation.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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18 June 2015 19:11
 
Jefe - 18 June 2015 02:49 PM

But you are free to self-disqualify any time you think the subject matter of a post or thread is outside of your comfort zone or expertise or preferred bullshit (however you’d like to describe it).

That’s the point, and I am sincere about this: I’m addicted and can’t leave.  I’ve left 2 or 3 times and, like a drunk, I always stumble back into the bar.  We already know that nobody has free will, and I have an addictive personality to boot.  I’m hopeless.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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18 June 2015 19:41
 
EN - 18 June 2015 02:16 PM
Dennis Campbell - 18 June 2015 02:12 PM

But my presence is not consistent with the stated goal of Project Reason.  My “drama” was comedic - but I’m serious now.  You NEED to get rid of us.  We mess the place up.  It will never be what Jdrnd wants with theists present.

Disagree.  As said many times, IMO the atheism/theism divide should not apply.  Your are an asset, BM a deficit.  Nothing to do with theism.

Not so sure, Dennis.  If a free forum is the goal, I’m at the right place.  If reason and the abolition of faith are the goal, I should be disqualified.

Good point.  I’ll argue that, yes, theism as an abstract, given the history, is fair target to eliminate; but I don’t think that will ever happen.  In time theism might well become less of an issue, as it has in many western countries, by reason of increasing irrelevance.  As a means of increasing personal security, fine; as a means of governing others not fine. You reflect the first, BM the second. 

This should be a “free” forum that welcomes theists, but if and as they use their theism to condemn or control others, and not just as personal belief in which they find satisfaction, then indeed that theism can and should be challenged.  Some atheists here are as vicious as any theist, and they tend to attack the person more than the theism.  I object to them as much as a BM.  Atheism, after all, implies nothing more than not sharing in a belief in a god; it has no implications as to what the person does believe otherwise. 

Sorry to be so brief; am recovering from surgery last Thursday and my wife is due to be DC home tomorrow after three weeks inpatient.  So it has been distracting here for me.

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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18 June 2015 19:43
 
EN - 18 June 2015 05:11 PM
Jefe - 18 June 2015 02:49 PM

But you are free to self-disqualify any time you think the subject matter of a post or thread is outside of your comfort zone or expertise or preferred bullshit (however you’d like to describe it).

That’s the point, and I am sincere about this: I’m addicted and can’t leave.  I’ve left 2 or 3 times and, like a drunk, I always stumble back into the bar.  We already know that nobody has free will, and I have an addictive personality to boot.  I’m hopeless.

Bruce, as I observe things, Jeff probably wants you to be excluded from this laboratory. He’s been unable to convict you of your mortal sin. (Jeff, I’m only saying this as an attempt to get you either to agree or disagree with my point.) Maybe if he were to read your novella, available on Nhoj’s web site, he’d feel differently. But perhaps not. I think Jeff needs to be axed if he actually is that intolerant and dark about his atheism.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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18 June 2015 19:45
 

That’s the point, and I am sincere about this: I’m addicted and can’t leave.  I’ve left 2 or 3 times and, like a drunk, I always stumble back into the bar.  We already know that nobody has free will, and I have an addictive personality to boot.  I’m hopeless.

That makes two of us.  Maybe we can form a society of “Recovering PR addicts” and so post on PR.  Hummm…well, maybe that’s a conflict.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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18 June 2015 19:49
 

Bruce, as I observe things, Jeff probably wants you to be excluded from this laboratory. He’s been unable to convict you of your mortal sin. (Jeff, I’m only saying this as an attempt to get you either to agree or disagree with my point.) Maybe if he were to read your novella, available on Nhoj’s web site, he’d feel differently. But perhaps not. I think Jeff needs to be axed if he actually is that intolerant and dark about his atheism.

That struck me as a point.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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19 June 2015 01:05
 
envy me - 18 June 2015 05:43 PM

I think Jeff needs to be axed if he actually is that intolerant and dark about his atheism.

You mistake assertiveness for intolerance.

Envy Me,

Let me ask you this.

How does my propensity to counter theist apologetics with measured answers turn into “dark about atheism”?

If EN and others can’t respond to my comments with rational discussion, the next best thing for them (or you as their surrogate) is to call me evil (or some equivalent).

Isn’t that the way that theists, over the last 15 centuries, subtly and not so subtly squashed comments that demonstrate that their beliefs can’t be true.


By the way, I don’t want EN to leave.  Who would I argue with?  I have stated on at least 2 other occasions in older threads that EN is the most valuable player on the forum.

But I also think that “nonsense” should be treated as nonsense.

 
EN
 
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EN
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19 June 2015 01:16
 
jdrnd - 18 June 2015 11:05 PM

If EN and others can’t respond to my comments with rational discussion, the next best thing for them (or you as their surrogate) is to call me evil (or some equivalent).

I suspect that Envy would be surprised to learn that he is a surrogate for theists.  I haven’t called you evil, and I have responded to you with rational discussion.  We just disagree on the fundamental nature of reality.  Nothing about my position is unreasonable, given my perception of reality.  I haven’t called for anyone to be cast into hell or into the Gorge of Eternal Peril or into the brier patch. 

Remember, NASA scientists have proposed that our universe may be a computer simulation.  There is no difference between that and an intelligent creator.  Burt, our resident mathematician and physicist, thinks that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the cosmos, like space-time.  Not much difference between that and God (I know he would disagree).  I can call “God” something else like “fundamental intelligence” and not be too far from the NASA scientists and their compute simulation.  You insist on putting me in a particular box and dismissing me, which is fine by me and matters not.  At least you are not as bad as gregory and his Abramic God meme.  But I discuss things rationally.  I just start from a different premise than you do.  You have no better evidence than I do.  Sorry.

 
J Kapp
 
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J Kapp
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19 June 2015 02:09
 

I remember when I read End of Faith in high school amid my “spiritual journey”...changed my life and brought me here. In those moments, Sam was a trailblazer. He unabashedly attacked religion and brought me into the fold as a wandering adolescent seeking an identity in a conservative setting. Hands-down he’s been one of the most influential people in my life, regardless of his awareness of the fact. But now, I don’t know what to think of him. JB’s basketball analogy is a start.

Edit: I daresay that, as a naive high school kid at the time, I considered Sam a “hero” of sorts.

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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19 June 2015 02:11
 

A forum is not worthwhile if everyone agrees.

“Yeah!”
“Yeah!”
“Heck yeah!”
“Double for me!”

Ho hum.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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19 June 2015 02:48
 
EN - 18 June 2015 11:16 PM

Remember, NASA scientists have proposed that our universe may be a computer simulation.

Just bullshit speculation, not actual science as there is zero factual or empirical evidence for that. 

There is no difference between that and an intelligent creator.

Sure, in the sense that they are both just bullshit speculation with zero factual or empirical evidence. Or your claim is that your god is an alien computer.

Burt, our resident mathematician and physicist, thinks that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the cosmos, like space-time.

Just bullshit opinion, not actual science as there is zero factual or empirical evidence for that. Burt should apply at NASA.

Not much difference between that and God (I know he would disagree).

LOL! No, I’ll agree since that still leaves your god as just the made up bullshit opinion he always was.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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19 June 2015 11:17
 
EN - 18 June 2015 11:16 PM

I just start from a different premise than you do.  You have no better evidence than I do.

An acute hallucination is not relevant evidence for anything other than to prove that your mind went on the fritz for a couple minutes and convinced you that your culture’s god exists. Relying on that and the bible, which is infamous for being substantially made up, and then saying that you have evidence to prove god exists simple shows that you’re fast and loose with the word “evidence.”

I keep thinking that there is some combination of words that could show you how nonsensical you sound when you say things like that.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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19 June 2015 11:46
 
Jb8989 - 19 June 2015 09:17 AM
EN - 18 June 2015 11:16 PM

I just start from a different premise than you do.  You have no better evidence than I do.

An acute hallucination is not relevant evidence for anything other than to prove that your mind went on the fritz for a couple minutes and convinced you that your culture’s god exists. Relying on that and the bible, which is infamous for being substantially made up, and then saying that you have evidence to prove god exists simple shows that you’re fast and loose with the word “evidence.”

I keep thinking that there is some combination of words that could show you how nonsensical you sound when you say things like that.

What there is evidence of is the resurrection of Jesus.  What conclusions you draw from that are a matter of faith.  I’ve never said that I can prove God’s existence.  You do not understand my argument because you don’t take it seriously because of your bias.  That’s fine, but when I read your posts I realize that you don’t get it.  Which is also fine.

 
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