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A new forum.  What would you propose as operational parameters?

 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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27 June 2015 22:50
 

It might be worth the cash just to watch you guys screw it up. It sounds like the beginning of an exclusive good old boys club. Only instead of having the element of suprise upon joining, I’d be stuck with a bunch of familiars trying to clean up my true ego with their fake bravado, or “Fluids” as nhoj so blatantly once called some of my contributions this forum.

All that being said, fuck it. I like you guys. I like talking with you guys. I’ve learned a lot from you all. If you want to play with some of my cash, that’s fine. After all, it’s not like I earned it all. Let me know how I can help.

[ Edited: 27 June 2015 22:52 by Jb8989]
 
 
Bugs Bunny
 
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Bugs Bunny
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27 June 2015 22:56
 

This thread is beginning to remind me of certain religious forums, in the theological debate section.  I would like to offer my translation of Dennis post. 
The OP was formed as a question, not as a declarative statement.  That tells me it is open for opinion and contributions.  The main issue, emboldened, is one inquiring from active patrons on the philosophical direction.  Participate, if you care.

My comments on how I translate the three opinions Dennis made.

1) Philosophical parameters to be determined from suggestions of both patrons and the board.

2)  No personal attacks or threats, and discussions should be around the material the person presents, not on flinging poo at the person who presents it.  Attack and criticize the position, not the person.

3)  Quite a diverse group, with a wide range of thoughts on philosophy, religion and politics.  Isn’t that a good thing?!  Where is the exclusivity?    And it is still open for membership for those interested that can demonstrate rationality, no bigotry,  not sure I understand what is meant by being deliberative, but that seems like a minor point.

I don’t see the bias, unless I’m blinded by my own bias.  Like I said, I’m working my way off the social forum, active in a language one that is mainly academic,  so I do not expect to be included should any new group form outside of PR.  It’s okay.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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27 June 2015 23:13
 
person - 27 June 2015 08:56 PM

This thread is beginning to remind me of certain religious forums, in the theological debate section.  I would like to offer my translation of Dennis post. 
The OP was formed as a question, not as a declarative statement.  That tells me it is open for opinion and contributions.  The main issue, emboldened, is one inquiring from active patrons on the philosophical direction.  Participate, if you care.

My comments on how I translate the three opinions Dennis made.

1) Philosophical parameters to be determined from suggestions of both patrons and the board.

2)  No personal attacks or threats, and discussions should be around the material the person presents, not on flinging poo at the person who presents it.  Attack and criticize the position, not the person.

3)  Quite a diverse group, with a wide range of thoughts on philosophy, religion and politics.  Isn’t that a good thing?!  Where is the exclusivity?    And it is still open for membership for those interested that can demonstrate rationality, no bigotry,  not sure I understand what is meant by being deliberative, but that seems like a minor point.

I don’t see the bias, unless I’m blinded by my own bias.  Like I said, I’m working my way off the social forum, active in a language one that is mainly academic,  so I do not expect to be included should any new group form outside of PR.  It’s okay.

Right on.  I am asking for opinions and/or proposals.  So far, not much.  Apart from to me obvious spam or really idiot posters (as operationalized by a non-existent Board) no one is banned apriori.  Interesting to me that no one has ventured to formulate any thesis statements nor guidelines.  I could, but have elected not to do so.  We value “democracy,” as long as someone else does something.  Not, of course, us.  That saddens me.

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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28 June 2015 00:03
 

Needs to have a catchy name.  How about “All Subjects Civil Debate Forum”?  No, not catchy.

BTW, Dennis you are so generous!  I personally wouldn’t be opposed to being economical and using a venue with ads on the side.  We’re all so used to ignoring those by now in most websites.  But heck, they could even be sparks for witty conversation.

 
SkepticX
 
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28 June 2015 01:41
 
Dennis Campbell - 27 June 2015 09:13 PM

Right on.  I am asking for opinions and/or proposals.  So far, not much.  Apart from to me obvious spam or really idiot posters (as operationalized by a non-existent Board) no one is banned apriori.  Interesting to me that no one has ventured to formulate any thesis statements nor guidelines.  I could, but have elected not to do so.  We value “democracy,” as long as someone else does something.  Not, of course, us.  That saddens me.


http://www.project-reason.org/forum/viewreply/385470/

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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28 June 2015 02:54
 

If I could design a forum: hmmm.

If you have a look at the existing forum guidelines, it is easy to see why many find them unsatisfying. I expressed them narratively, which I tend to do with things in general. Absent are any succinctly worded rules or lists of requirements.

There is a point of view implicit in Dennis’s argument that I will remain a bulwark against. Not because we aren’t pals or because he isn’t a valued member of the community. He is both and I am expressing my core philosophy in opposing (some of) his desires for the forum.

There is perception among some posters that an insistence on brevity, succinctness and clarity all expressed in the grammar of a Western Union telegram earns the prize for Projecting The Most Reason. And hence, being more deserving of a voice in the proceedings. And, you’re all atheists to boot. It should be simple, but I’m going to complicate it.

In my many years here, I have observed distinctly different kinds of posters. There are those who favor plain perceptions and those who favor the narrative stuff and some who straddle both worlds. The narrative stuff is not without value even if it is beyond the reading desires of many patrons. Personally, I have found great value in all of it. I enjoy seeing all types of posters strolling the same Funway together. It is my desire to prevent the sort of insularity that some are suggesting. As readers, I think we could be more challenging and less dismissive and try to remember that we all come here to grow and not to calcify. The exceptions don’t post for long.


If I could name the sub-forums, I would start with The Narrative-Free Zone. It would have a red No symbol over the face of Bill Shakespeare. Here, fans of brevity can march their little cloud bunnies up and down to their hearts’ content. Whoops, that a poster talking. Here, arguments and issues must be presented entirely in plain perceptions and un-narrative text. Listing is encouraged. Waxing, waffling, wafting and wasting time are Right Out.

Next, The House of Un-Plain Perceptions. Here, even the sky isn’t the limit. This sub-forum’s icon would be something unrecognizable because it is too big for the little icon picture. Lyrical or free verse is welcome. Song lyrics, too. Wacky tales like my stuff would belong their. Here, those who enjoy expressing and reading narratively can do so without being told they are not reasonable or not valuable simply because it is narrative.

Followed by The Middle Ground. Open debate and discussion in the usual categories of Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Science and such.

Then, The Funway. Here, all the lighter stuff that doesn’t always know where to park can be found in one place. This would include audio track links of posters interviewing each other over the phone that are hosted and recorded by skype.

The Floor Show- if a patron wants to sit down, relax and take in a big set-piece, like EYEBALLS or Mr. Grings’ offerings, they would all be here. I would encourage more of such: like a thread dedicated to Mr. GAD’s Butte Faerie. A nicely mannered Bro Mo might even find a place here.

The Arena- Structured and scheduled debates between selected posters and closed to comment for their duration.

Finally, The Ghost Town. Closed and abandon threads along with Special Threads reserved for comments and input from Project Reason Board Members.

 
 
nv
 
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nv
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28 June 2015 10:46
 
Nhoj Morley - 28 June 2015 12:54 AM

If I could name the sub-forums, I would start with The Narrative-Free Zone. It would have a red No symbol over the face of Bill Shakespeare. Here, fans of brevity can march their little cloud bunnies up and down to their hearts’ content. Whoops, that a poster talking. Here, arguments and issues must be presented entirely in plain perceptions and un-narrative text. Listing is encouraged. Waxing, waffling, wafting and wasting time are Right Out.

One issue that has come up a few times in the past is how and when to implement the legendary shaving methods of William Occam. I’ll be brief.

Occam’s Razor does not apply to literary styles and methods in the same direct way it applies to the formation of a hypothesis. In writing, the fast-and-easy direct approach very often misses the goal of communicating efficiently and effectively, especially when the subject at hand is subtle, complex, or both subtle and complex. Some people run around with subtle and/or complex thoughts that are not readily translated into words. And if the thoughts and ideas stand out as being highly original, it can be impossible for a writer to describe them adequately without throwing together tens of thousands of words.

Fortunately for this forum, a variety of literary methods can be seen here, including fictional dialogue, poetry, cartoons, jokes, lists, and of course, paragraphs that are at times long. All the regular contributors to this forum understand how to be efficient writers, even when they’re laying down long-form paragraphs.

 
 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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28 June 2015 13:08
 
Nhoj Morley - 28 June 2015 12:54 AM

If I could design a forum: hmmm.

If you have a look at the existing forum guidelines, it is easy to see why many find them unsatisfying. I expressed them narratively, which I tend to do with things in general. Absent are any succinctly worded rules or lists of requirements.

There is a point of view implicit in Dennis’s argument that I will remain a bulwark against. Not because we aren’t pals or because he isn’t a valued member of the community. He is both and I am expressing my core philosophy in opposing (some of) his desires for the forum.

There is perception among some posters that an insistence on brevity, succinctness and clarity all expressed in the grammar of a Western Union telegram earns the prize for Projecting The Most Reason. And hence, being more deserving of a voice in the proceedings. And, you’re all atheists to boot. It should be simple, but I’m going to complicate it.

In my many years here, I have observed distinctly different kinds of posters. There are those who favor plain perceptions and those who favor the narrative stuff and some who straddle both worlds. The narrative stuff is not without value even if it is beyond the reading desires of many patrons. Personally, I have found great value in all of it. I enjoy seeing all types of posters strolling the same Funway together. It is my desire to prevent the sort of insularity that some are suggesting. As readers, I think we could be more challenging and less dismissive and try to remember that we all come here to grow and not to calcify. The exceptions don’t post for long.


If I could name the sub-forums, I would start with The Narrative-Free Zone. It would have a red No symbol over the face of Bill Shakespeare. Here, fans of brevity can march their little cloud bunnies up and down to their hearts’ content. Whoops, that a poster talking. Here, arguments and issues must be presented entirely in plain perceptions and un-narrative text. Listing is encouraged. Waxing, waffling, wafting and wasting time are Right Out.

Next, The House of Un-Plain Perceptions. Here, even the sky isn’t the limit. This sub-forum’s icon would be something unrecognizable because it is too big for the little icon picture. Lyrical or free verse is welcome. Song lyrics, too. Wacky tales like my stuff would belong their. Here, those who enjoy expressing and reading narratively can do so without being told they are not reasonable or not valuable simply because it is narrative.

Followed by The Middle Ground. Open debate and discussion in the usual categories of Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Science and such.

Then, The Funway. Here, all the lighter stuff that doesn’t always know where to park can be found in one place. This would include audio track links of posters interviewing each other over the phone that are hosted and recorded by skype.

The Floor Show- if a patron wants to sit down, relax and take in a big set-piece, like EYEBALLS or Mr. Grings’ offerings, they would all be here. I would encourage more of such: like a thread dedicated to Mr. GAD’s Butte Faerie. A nicely mannered Bro Mo might even find a place here.

The Arena- Structured and scheduled debates between selected posters and closed to comment for their duration.

Finally, The Ghost Town. Closed and abandon threads along with Special Threads reserved for comments and input from Project Reason Board Members.

I love your ideas and appreciate what you wrote about brevity not necessarily being the soul of wit and how we can learn much from those who prefer a more meandering style of writing and simply go with the flow and even add a few exclamation marks because these people may be more imaginative which is another form of intelligence and if they are delightful as well why would anyone object to their presence on this new Forum because human reality is varied and bits of the truth reside in many minds and though some of us are quite different than others because of genetics, temperament and experience and if we adopt a flexible perspective and an open heart we may learn from our differences, which is certainly not an easy thing to do, but, it is important for all of us to try even if only to demonstrate that it can be done and therefore this Forum would serve humanity in a small, insignificant way although it would be challenging to communicate with civility and good will but, on the other hand, these delightful, but rather verbose folks might prove to be a distraction and the others wouldn’t be able to dig as deeply into a subject s they might wish so the delightful person ends up not being quite as delightful as first assumed and a few people might feel inclined to tell this particular person to shut the f*** up but can’t since that is against the rules which might be a good thing because it requires self control and God knows the world would be a better place if people valued self control instead of unrestrained self indulgence and thus this Forum can be an inspiring representation to other Forums that such a community can be created which is important even if only for ourselves to understand and keep in mind if we believe and sorry if I am borrowing from Jesus but I wish to emphasize that if we can do this with our whole hearts, minds and soul we will show the world and more importantly ourselves blank stare that it can be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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28 June 2015 13:13
 

I like your ideas, Nhoj.  Let’s get rid of Dennis or confine him to a sub-category entitled “Old Fuddie Duddies Opine”

He should use his $$10,000 to make the lives of delightful, but struggling, middle-aged women a little easier.  Please remind him that I am more middle-aged than Hannah.

[ Edited: 28 June 2015 14:30 by saralynn]
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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28 June 2015 14:06
 

That’s an interesting proposal to organize a forum by style.  Personally, I don’t mind the mixed styles within threads.  But obviously, it’s annoying to some people.  In my thinking, the beauty of an online forum (as opposed to a dinner table conversation or a board meeting) is that you can skip hearing stories and opinions that bore or annoy you.  Just scroll.

Would the pithy threads be like tweets? Akin to “What are you drinking now?”

And Sarah, that was very James Joyce.  Can’t have him on the forum, for sure!

 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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28 June 2015 14:28
 
Hannah2 - 28 June 2015 12:06 PM

That’s an interesting proposal to organize a forum by style.  Personally, I don’t mind the mixed styles within threads.  But obviously, it’s annoying to some people.  In my thinking, the beauty of an online forum (as opposed to a dinner table conversation or a board meeting) is that you can skip hearing stories and opinions that bore or annoy you.  Just scroll.

Would the pithy threads be like tweets? Akin to “What are you drinking now?”

And Sarah, that was very James Joyce.  Can’t have him on the forum, for sure!

Actually I was imitating the annoying nephew who I always end up sitting next to at Thanksgiving Dinner.  Last fall, starting with the appetizers and ending with the pumpkin pie, he explained both the Bible and Qur’an to me.

 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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28 June 2015 14:33
 
saralynn - 28 June 2015 12:28 PM
Hannah2 - 28 June 2015 12:06 PM

That’s an interesting proposal to organize a forum by style.  Personally, I don’t mind the mixed styles within threads.  But obviously, it’s annoying to some people.  In my thinking, the beauty of an online forum (as opposed to a dinner table conversation or a board meeting) is that you can skip hearing stories and opinions that bore or annoy you.  Just scroll.

Would the pithy threads be like tweets? Akin to “What are you drinking now?”

And Sarah, that was very James Joyce.  Can’t have him on the forum, for sure!

Actually I was imitating the annoying nephew who I always end up sitting next to at Thanksgiving Dinner.  Last fall, starting with the appetizers and ending with the pumpkin pie, he explained both the Bible and Qur’an to me.

I always wonder that endless talkers don’t notice the poor listeners’ facial clues.  Not that I’ve ever run on…

 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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28 June 2015 16:18
 
Nhoj Morley - 28 June 2015 12:54 AM

If I could design a forum: hmmm.

If you have a look at the existing forum guidelines, it is easy to see why many find them unsatisfying. I expressed them narratively, which I tend to do with things in general. Absent are any succinctly worded rules or lists of requirements.

There is a point of view implicit in Dennis’s argument that I will remain a bulwark against. Not because we aren’t pals or because he isn’t a valued member of the community. He is both and I am expressing my core philosophy in opposing (some of) his desires for the forum.

There is perception among some posters that an insistence on brevity, succinctness and clarity all expressed in the grammar of a Western Union telegram earns the prize for Projecting The Most Reason. And hence, being more deserving of a voice in the proceedings. And, you’re all atheists to boot. It should be simple, but I’m going to complicate it.

In my many years here, I have observed distinctly different kinds of posters. There are those who favor plain perceptions and those who favor the narrative stuff and some who straddle both worlds. The narrative stuff is not without value even if it is beyond the reading desires of many patrons. Personally, I have found great value in all of it. I enjoy seeing all types of posters strolling the same Funway together. It is my desire to prevent the sort of insularity that some are suggesting. As readers, I think we could be more challenging and less dismissive and try to remember that we all come here to grow and not to calcify. The exceptions don’t post for long.


If I could name the sub-forums, I would start with The Narrative-Free Zone. It would have a red No symbol over the face of Bill Shakespeare. Here, fans of brevity can march their little cloud bunnies up and down to their hearts’ content. Whoops, that a poster talking. Here, arguments and issues must be presented entirely in plain perceptions and un-narrative text. Listing is encouraged. Waxing, waffling, wafting and wasting time are Right Out.

Next, The House of Un-Plain Perceptions. Here, even the sky isn’t the limit. This sub-forum’s icon would be something unrecognizable because it is too big for the little icon picture. Lyrical or free verse is welcome. Song lyrics, too. Wacky tales like my stuff would belong their. Here, those who enjoy expressing and reading narratively can do so without being told they are not reasonable or not valuable simply because it is narrative.

Followed by The Middle Ground. Open debate and discussion in the usual categories of Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Science and such.

Then, The Funway. Here, all the lighter stuff that doesn’t always know where to park can be found in one place. This would include audio track links of posters interviewing each other over the phone that are hosted and recorded by skype.

The Floor Show- if a patron wants to sit down, relax and take in a big set-piece, like EYEBALLS or Mr. Grings’ offerings, they would all be here. I would encourage more of such: like a thread dedicated to Mr. GAD’s Butte Faerie. A nicely mannered Bro Mo might even find a place here.

The Arena- Structured and scheduled debates between selected posters and closed to comment for their duration.

Finally, The Ghost Town. Closed and abandon threads along with Special Threads reserved for comments and input from Project Reason Board Members.

I think you have that backwards. You waste a lot of time with how you write so unnecessarily wordy. Nontheless good thoughts.

 
 
Gregoryhhh
 
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28 June 2015 16:30
 
saralynn - 28 June 2015 11:08 AM

I love your ideas and appreciate what you wrote about brevity not necessarily being the soul of wit and how we can learn much from those who prefer a more meandering style of writing and simply go with the flow and even add a few exclamation marks because these people may be more imaginative which is another form of intelligence and if they are delightful as well why would anyone object to their presence on this new Forum because human reality is varied and bits of the truth reside in many minds and though some of us are quite different than others because of genetics, temperament and experience and if we adopt a flexible perspective and an open heart we may learn from our differences, which is certainly not an easy thing to do, but, it is important for all of us to try even if only to demonstrate that it can be done and therefore this Forum would serve humanity in a small, insignificant way although it would be challenging to communicate with civility and good will but, on the other hand, these delightful, but rather verbose folks might prove to be a distraction and the others wouldn’t be able to dig as deeply into a subject s they might wish so the delightful person ends up not being quite as delightful as first assumed and a few people might feel inclined to tell this particular person to shut the f*** up but can’t since that is against the rules which might be a good thing because it requires self control and God knows the world would be a better place if people valued self control instead of unrestrained self indulgence and thus this Forum can be an inspiring representation to other Forums that such a community can be created which is important even if only for ourselves to understand and keep in mind if we believe and sorry if I am borrowing from Jesus but I wish to emphasize that if we can do this with our whole hearts, minds and soul we will show the world and more importantly ourselves blank stare that it can be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

nice paragraph(?) sara smile
gregory

 
 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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28 June 2015 16:33
 
Jb8989 - 28 June 2015 02:18 PM
Nhoj Morley - 28 June 2015 12:54 AM

If I could design a forum: hmmm.

If you have a look at the existing forum guidelines, it is easy to see why many find them unsatisfying. I expressed them narratively, which I tend to do with things in general. Absent are any succinctly worded rules or lists of requirements.

There is a point of view implicit in Dennis’s argument that I will remain a bulwark against. Not because we aren’t pals or because he isn’t a valued member of the community. He is both and I am expressing my core philosophy in opposing (some of) his desires for the forum.

There is perception among some posters that an insistence on brevity, succinctness and clarity all expressed in the grammar of a Western Union telegram earns the prize for Projecting The Most Reason. And hence, being more deserving of a voice in the proceedings. And, you’re all atheists to boot. It should be simple, but I’m going to complicate it.

In my many years here, I have observed distinctly different kinds of posters. There are those who favor plain perceptions and those who favor the narrative stuff and some who straddle both worlds. The narrative stuff is not without value even if it is beyond the reading desires of many patrons. Personally, I have found great value in all of it. I enjoy seeing all types of posters strolling the same Funway together. It is my desire to prevent the sort of insularity that some are suggesting. As readers, I think we could be more challenging and less dismissive and try to remember that we all come here to grow and not to calcify. The exceptions don’t post for long.

If I could name the sub-forums, I would start with The Narrative-Free Zone. It would have a red No symbol over the face of Bill Shakespeare. Here, fans of brevity can march their little cloud bunnies up and down to their hearts’ content. Whoops, that a poster talking. Here, arguments and issues must be presented entirely in plain perceptions and un-narrative text. Listing is encouraged. Waxing, waffling, wafting and wasting time are Right Out.

Next, The House of Un-Plain Perceptions. Here, even the sky isn’t the limit. This sub-forum’s icon would be something unrecognizable because it is too big for the little icon picture. Lyrical or free verse is welcome. Song lyrics, too. Wacky tales like my stuff would belong their. Here, those who enjoy expressing and reading narratively can do so without being told they are not reasonable or not valuable simply because it is narrative.

Followed by The Middle Ground. Open debate and discussion in the usual categories of Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Science and such.

Then, The Funway. Here, all the lighter stuff that doesn’t always know where to park can be found in one place. This would include audio track links of posters interviewing each other over the phone that are hosted and recorded by skype.

The Floor Show- if a patron wants to sit down, relax and take in a big set-piece, like EYEBALLS or Mr. Grings’ offerings, they would all be here. I would encourage more of such: like a thread dedicated to Mr. GAD’s Butte Faerie. A nicely mannered Bro Mo might even find a place here.

The Arena- Structured and scheduled debates between selected posters and closed to comment for their duration.

Finally, The Ghost Town. Closed and abandon threads along with Special Threads reserved for comments and input from Project Reason Board Members.

I think you have that backwards. You waste a lot of time with how you write so unnecessarily wordy. Nontheless good thoughts.

You are nuts.  Nhoj’s writing is wonderfully unique and I am one of his greatest fans.  My opinion counts more than yours because I was an English major.  Okay….minor.

 
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