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The Klein Bottle

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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24 March 2019 18:30
 
Cheshire Cat - 24 March 2019 12:34 PM
icehorse - 24 March 2019 10:02 AM

I fear that most religious fundamentalists are relentlessly trying to chip away at secularism.

This is exactly how I feel about Evangelical Christians here in the United States, because they’re succeeding. Roe v Wade will most likely get overturned with the conservative majority in the Supreme Court. Then there’s the overall attack on science by these people, particularly global warming and evolution. We also have an Evangelical extremist as vice president and many others who fill high ranking positions in the government.

Evangelical Christian fundamentalists are destroying secularism in the United States far more than Islamic fundamentalists ever will. I view them as the much greater threat.

localized to the US - I agree

 
 
MARTIN_UK
 
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MARTIN_UK
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25 March 2019 00:17
 
Skipshot - 24 March 2019 05:37 PM
Skipshot - 02 February 2019 11:53 AM

A mouse has been spotted prowling the kitchen by everyone in my house except our two cats.  We named the mouse Crumbs.

Crumbs lives!  S/he scurried across the kitchen floor and under the cabinetry!  Lousy cats. . .

Reminds me of Pixie and Dixie Skip, that Mr Jinx had a similar degree of success catching them mices… go Crumbs!!

 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
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25 March 2019 14:04
 

Go with your nyeep pool.

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
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26 March 2019 15:24
 
Cheshire Cat - 24 March 2019 03:35 PM
proximacentauri - 24 March 2019 02:47 PM

A very good point. From my perch, I’m also much more concerned about Christian Evangelical fundamentalism influence in the US than any Muslim Islamic fundamentalist influence in our country. As we know, the Evangelical fundamentalism movement in the US is not a fringe phenomenon. They command huge political clout and their political influence continues to tug the US in the direction of an anti-science, anti-intellectual, and theism-based theocracy of sorts. I used to be an Evangelical so I have some idea of how they think and what motivates them. Those who are politically active see themselves as saviors of the US culture - culture warriors called by god. They are essentially the American version of the Taliban.

Agreed.

You were an Evangelical? What shook you out of that way of life? If it’s too personal, and you don’t want to talk about it, I can understand.

Not at all, it’s not personal, but unfortunately it’s not all that remarkable. After years of increasing doubts that the tenets of Christianity were factual, I finally decided to just jettison the entire man-made narrative that was so heavily indoctrinated in my psyche as a youth, primarily by my mother, who grew up a Southern Baptist. No one event or epiphany occurred and nothing really “shook me out of” my belief. Indoctrination from a young age is a powerful thing and it took me the better part of a couple of decades to reverse the ‘brain-washing’. At age 52 I finally admitted to being an Atheist. Late bloomer I suppose.

 

 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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30 March 2019 06:11
 
proximacentauri - 26 March 2019 03:24 PM
Cheshire Cat - 24 March 2019 03:35 PM
proximacentauri - 24 March 2019 02:47 PM

A very good point. From my perch, I’m also much more concerned about Christian Evangelical fundamentalism influence in the US than any Muslim Islamic fundamentalist influence in our country. As we know, the Evangelical fundamentalism movement in the US is not a fringe phenomenon. They command huge political clout and their political influence continues to tug the US in the direction of an anti-science, anti-intellectual, and theism-based theocracy of sorts. I used to be an Evangelical so I have some idea of how they think and what motivates them. Those who are politically active see themselves as saviors of the US culture - culture warriors called by god. They are essentially the American version of the Taliban.

Agreed.

You were an Evangelical? What shook you out of that way of life? If it’s too personal, and you don’t want to talk about it, I can understand.

Not at all, it’s not personal, but unfortunately it’s not all that remarkable. After years of increasing doubts that the tenets of Christianity were factual, I finally decided to just jettison the entire man-made narrative that was so heavily indoctrinated in my psyche as a youth, primarily by my mother, who grew up a Southern Baptist. No one event or epiphany occurred and nothing really “shook me out of” my belief. Indoctrination from a young age is a powerful thing and it took me the better part of a couple of decades to reverse the ‘brain-washing’. At age 52 I finally admitted to being an Atheist. Late bloomer I suppose.

Your story is similar to mine, proximacentauri. Were the social ramifications of your loss of faith severe?

Also, completely unrelated . . . regarding Abel’s posting—

Once an arguer’s main points have been roundly defeated, he need not be taken seriously on other points made down the line. If we successfully argue-down someone’s fundamental points, it seems silly if we allow the machine to continue as if we haven’t thoroughly done so. It’s amazing to watch Abel obviously struggle intellectually while simultaneously being taken seriously enough for others to respond to his many foul utterances.

For example, Abel cites the metaphorical notion of “selfish genes” to back up his flawed arguments attempting to favor people with his skin tone. Apparently, Dawkins’ pithy selfish-genes “theory” appeals to an admitted racist as a justification of his unfortunate emotional needs. I guess his imagined logic hinges on his naturally felt preference to be selfish about being allowed to maintain his various racial delusions without anyone being able to compel him to pretend they aren’t there. I can’t imagine his peculiar logic applying to anything Dawkins ever wrote or thought.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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01 April 2019 23:14
 
nonverbal - 30 March 2019 06:11 AM

. . . regarding Abel’s posting—

Once an arguer’s main points have been roundly defeated, he need not be taken seriously on other points made down the line. If we successfully argue-down someone’s fundamental points, it seems silly if we allow the machine to continue as if we haven’t thoroughly done so. It’s amazing to watch Abel obviously struggle intellectually while simultaneously being taken seriously enough for others to respond to his many foul utterances.

I have to ask, in what manner is Mr. Dean being taken seriously? A wide spectrum of patrons has taken their best toss at Mr. Dean’s precarious perch. He has nailed himself to it and let down those hoping for a splash. Note that his strongest critics are also his most enduring participants.

As a non-academic, my threshold of foulness is probably too high.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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02 April 2019 06:14
 
Nhoj Morley - 01 April 2019 11:14 PM
nonverbal - 30 March 2019 06:11 AM

. . . regarding Abel’s posting—

Once an arguer’s main points have been roundly defeated, he need not be taken seriously on other points made down the line. If we successfully argue-down someone’s fundamental points, it seems silly if we allow the machine to continue as if we haven’t thoroughly done so. It’s amazing to watch Abel obviously struggle intellectually while simultaneously being taken seriously enough for others to respond to his many foul utterances.

I have to ask, in what manner is Mr. Dean being taken seriously? A wide spectrum of patrons has taken their best toss at Mr. Dean’s precarious perch. He has nailed himself to it and let down those hoping for a splash. Note that his strongest critics are also his most enduring participants.

As a non-academic, my threshold of foulness is probably too high.

I’m also a non-academic, and I hope you’re correct about how seriously Abel has been taken here. I assume that, as a result of his efforts here, he now has some homework to do.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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02 April 2019 10:14
 
nonverbal - 02 April 2019 06:14 AM
Nhoj Morley - 01 April 2019 11:14 PM
nonverbal - 30 March 2019 06:11 AM

. . . regarding Abel’s posting—

Once an arguer’s main points have been roundly defeated, he need not be taken seriously on other points made down the line. If we successfully argue-down someone’s fundamental points, it seems silly if we allow the machine to continue as if we haven’t thoroughly done so. It’s amazing to watch Abel obviously struggle intellectually while simultaneously being taken seriously enough for others to respond to his many foul utterances.

I have to ask, in what manner is Mr. Dean being taken seriously? A wide spectrum of patrons has taken their best toss at Mr. Dean’s precarious perch. He has nailed himself to it and let down those hoping for a splash. Note that his strongest critics are also his most enduring participants.

As a non-academic, my threshold of foulness is probably too high.

I’m also a non-academic, and I hope you’re correct about how seriously Abel has been taken here. I assume that, as a result of his efforts here, he now has some homework to do.

Although Abel Dean has been provided with ample homework, I suspect he has no interest since he is obviously dug in with his self-proclaimed racism.

Whether or not Abel Dean has been taken seriously by regular members, he has used the responses he received as an opportunity to carry on with his many “foul utterances”.  In my opinion, he has contributed to bringing down the vibe of this forum.

Many white nationalists have learned to express themselves in a manner that attempts to sound logical and educated, but to let them get away with this is to fall into their trap.  It is the message that is important, not the methods used.  Posters such as Abel Dean should be treated the same way as if they had uttered the racist terms that I’m sure are being held back just under his breath.

 

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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02 April 2019 11:39
 
Jan_CAN - 02 April 2019 10:14 AM

Although Abel Dean has been provided with ample homework, I suspect he has no interest since he is obviously dug in with his self-proclaimed racism.

Yes, but he did manage to pick our brains pretty effectively, wouldn’t you say? If he’s so inclined, he can now spend a month or a year diligently working out any apologetics that might sound to naive listeners/readers to be science-derived advances in thinking. It’s not worth arguing with people once it becomes clear that they are not digesting what they’re being told.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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02 April 2019 12:53
 
nonverbal - 02 April 2019 11:39 AM
Jan_CAN - 02 April 2019 10:14 AM

Although Abel Dean has been provided with ample homework, I suspect he has no interest since he is obviously dug in with his self-proclaimed racism.

Yes, but he did manage to pick our brains pretty effectively, wouldn’t you say? If he’s so inclined, he can now spend a month or a year diligently working out any apologetics that might sound to naive listeners/readers to be science-derived advances in thinking. It’s not worth arguing with people once it becomes clear that they are not digesting what they’re being told.

Yes, he did pick many posters’ brains.  (In my case, it was not so much my brain as my heart that was affected, with raised blood pressure to boot.)

It became apparent fairly early on where he was coming from, that he wasn’t really listening or willing to change his mind, and that he was here just to spout his own bigotry.  I agree – it’s not worth arguing with such people.  However, they should be put in their place, either by shunning with no response, or by clearly and bluntly calling them on their dishonesty and inhumanity.

 

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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02 April 2019 15:18
 

Bringing down the vibe? Mr. Dean has been the vibe. Aside from a creationist stop-in and a silly pigeon, no one has attempted to vibrate the place in a while. That is sad. I would rather face off with a more engaging issue. We need more to talk about. Events of the last few years seems to have left us speechless and just posting outrageous news like a bulletin board. I would like to initiate some quivers ahead once I recover my typing skills. This post took 90 minutes. Folks on the other side have been running the table everywhere. Our side is disjointed and unfocused.

JanCan:
Many white nationalists have learned to express themselves in a manner that attempts to sound logical and educated, but to let them get away with this is to fall into their trap.  It is the message that is important, not the methods used.  Posters such as Abel Dean should be treated the same way as if they had uttered the racist terms that I’m sure are being held back just under his breath.

Mods cannot adjudicate on the basis of what might be under someone’s breath.

Part of the problem is my personal view. A common response to any opposition is that some folks are intellectually incapacitated by their seething hatred of something. I do not believe this and it strikes me as absurd. But that is because, as a trioonist, I see these intellectual train wrecks as far more a matter of internal timing than emotion. To a non-trioonist, there may be no where else to lay the blame.

nv:
It’s not worth arguing with people once it becomes clear that they are not digesting what they’re being told.

That is a broad brush that colors many. A lack of digestion is speculation. Responses are greeted with enthusiasm. After digestion, they tend to come back with claims that the forum panders to the emotional needs of SJW’s or that free speech is giving way to PC-ness. Or that we are all dummies who are not ready for the offered enlightenment.


I think I am defending the institution here and not Mr. Dean. Personally, I would prefer that Mr. Dean either open up or wander off. Some patrons compel him to stick around for a string of encores.

 

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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02 April 2019 17:12
 
Nhoj Morley - 02 April 2019 03:18 PM

Bringing down the vibe? Mr. Dean has been the vibe. Aside from a creationist stop-in and a silly pigeon, no one has attempted to vibrate the place in a while. That is sad. I would rather face off with a more engaging issue. We need more to talk about. Events of the last few years seems to have left us speechless and just posting outrageous news like a bulletin board. I would like to initiate some quivers ahead once I recover my typing skills. This post took 90 minutes. Folks on the other side have been running the table everywhere. Our side is disjointed and unfocused.

JanCan:
Many white nationalists have learned to express themselves in a manner that attempts to sound logical and educated, but to let them get away with this is to fall into their trap.  It is the message that is important, not the methods used.  Posters such as Abel Dean should be treated the same way as if they had uttered the racist terms that I’m sure are being held back just under his breath.

Mods cannot adjudicate on the basis of what might be under someone’s breath.

Part of the problem is my personal view. A common response to any opposition is that some folks are intellectually incapacitated by their seething hatred of something. I do not believe this and it strikes me as absurd. But that is because, as a trioonist, I see these intellectual train wrecks as far more a matter of internal timing than emotion. To a non-trioonist, there may be no where else to lay the blame.

nv:
It’s not worth arguing with people once it becomes clear that they are not digesting what they’re being told.

That is a broad brush that colors many. A lack of digestion is speculation. Responses are greeted with enthusiasm. After digestion, they tend to come back with claims that the forum panders to the emotional needs of SJW’s or that free speech is giving way to PC-ness. Or that we are all dummies who are not ready for the offered enlightenment.


I think I am defending the institution here and not Mr. Dean. Personally, I would prefer that Mr. Dean either open up or wander off. Some patrons compel him to stick around for a string of encores.

Your good.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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02 April 2019 18:07
 
Nhoj Morley - 02 April 2019 03:18 PM

Bringing down the vibe? Mr. Dean has been the vibe. Aside from a creationist stop-in and a silly pigeon, no one has attempted to vibrate the place in a while. That is sad. I would rather face off with a more engaging issue. We need more to talk about. Events of the last few years seems to have left us speechless and just posting outrageous news like a bulletin board. I would like to initiate some quivers ahead once I recover my typing skills. This post took 90 minutes. Folks on the other side have been running the table everywhere. Our side is disjointed and unfocused.

JanCan:
Many white nationalists have learned to express themselves in a manner that attempts to sound logical and educated, but to let them get away with this is to fall into their trap.  It is the message that is important, not the methods used.  Posters such as Abel Dean should be treated the same way as if they had uttered the racist terms that I’m sure are being held back just under his breath.

Mods cannot adjudicate on the basis of what might be under someone’s breath.

Part of the problem is my personal view. A common response to any opposition is that some folks are intellectually incapacitated by their seething hatred of something. I do not believe this and it strikes me as absurd. But that is because, as a trioonist, I see these intellectual train wrecks as far more a matter of internal timing than emotion. To a non-trioonist, there may be no where else to lay the blame.

nv:
It’s not worth arguing with people once it becomes clear that they are not digesting what they’re being told.

That is a broad brush that colors many. A lack of digestion is speculation. Responses are greeted with enthusiasm. After digestion, they tend to come back with claims that the forum panders to the emotional needs of SJW’s or that free speech is giving way to PC-ness. Or that we are all dummies who are not ready for the offered enlightenment.

I think I am defending the institution here and not Mr. Dean. Personally, I would prefer that Mr. Dean either open up or wander off. Some patrons compel him to stick around for a string of encores.

Yeah, Mr. Dean livened up the place for awhile, but it’s rather sad that it may be at least partly due to patrons’ boredom.  We need more posters, more diversity, varied perspectives, and controversy that doesn’t depend on mean nutters, even those with bigly vocabularies.  A scan of some of the topics and posts might very well scare off potential contributors who could bring something interesting to the table.

No, moderators can’t adjudicate on the basis of assumptions, but I think the intentions of Mr. Dean were clear.  I personally think it would be reasonable for all of his racist threads to be moved out of The Halls of Critical Thinking.  If his is an example of critical thinking, then I’m a monkey’s uncle.

I’d prefer Mr. Dean to just wander off since it appears that he can’t be persuaded away from the dark side.

 

[ Edited: 02 April 2019 19:13 by Jan_CAN]
 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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03 April 2019 18:44
 
Jan_CAN - 02 April 2019 06:07 PM

I’d prefer Mr. Dean to just wander off since it appears that he can’t be persuaded away from the dark side.

Maybe if he attenuated his offensiveness and broadened his responses to other topics, he could be like EN.  Or, he could be like BroMo and wreck every thread he can, then be reduced to slashing swords with a couple patrons in an isolated cage match.  Single-issue members are boring.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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04 April 2019 07:57
 
Skipshot - 03 April 2019 06:44 PM
Jan_CAN - 02 April 2019 06:07 PM

I’d prefer Mr. Dean to just wander off since it appears that he can’t be persuaded away from the dark side.

Maybe if he attenuated his offensiveness and broadened his responses to other topics, he could be like EN.  Or, he could be like BroMo and wreck every thread he can, then be reduced to slashing swords with a couple patrons in an isolated cage match.  Single-issue members are boring.

Yes, except I doubt he could ever show us anything like EN’s inherent intelligence, common sense, and good nature.

 
 
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