Poll: Before reading ’Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue’ what would you say was your knowledge of the Quran?
 

I was and am an expert

I knew a moderate amount

I knew a few things

I knew nothing.

WHO CARES? THIS BOOK IS RACIST!

 

’Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue’ - America, the World, Islam, Islamism

 
fedoma
 
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fedoma
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01 August 2016 23:49
 

I think the obstacle that this book faces, if it wants to penetrating a wide enough audience, is the population’s ignorance of the details of the Quran.  People who already hold the idea that Islam is no more a problem than any other religion, and are additionally ignorant of the Quran, will resist the apparent need to take the word of both Harris and Nawaz when it comes to those details. The Quran seems like it should be a prerequisite to this book.

But then again the ignorance of the world’s knowledge of all the dominate religions, especially their own, blocks any real progress in debates, political ideas, or social advancement.

Actually, the world’s ignorance of most things along with people’s immense need to never admit, or be perceived as, wrong leads to a lack of progress in all areas.

How do we change this?

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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02 August 2016 00:01
 

The book has very little to say about the Quran, except that many Islamists know very little about it.  It deals more with Islam today than with the scripture.

 
 
fedoma
 
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fedoma
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02 August 2016 00:38
 

In all honesty, I’ve only just started the book. However, I’ve been watching videos on Youtube with Harris and Nawaz talking about what they address in the book. From those videos it seems that their aim is to address the negative impact of Islamic doctrine and Islamists. But if what your saying is correct, and the authors don’t deal with the actual scripture, then the book seems to be missing an important part. Without discussing the details of the Quran and other Islamic texts it’s difficult for Harris and Nawaz to effectively communicate their message. In fact, the crux of the confusion, for many, on their stance stems from the fact that people don’t know that Islamic scripture differs significantly from the scriptures of other popular religions. This leads people to wrongfully cry bigotry.

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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02 August 2016 00:47
 

Maajid Nawaz focuses on the different way Islamic scripture (not just the Koran) is interpreted by secular vs. fundamentalist Muslims. His goal is to (re-) establish the right of each Muslim individual to read the Koran as they see fit, with no right of authority on any single interpretation.
Harris’s goal otoh is to show that the texts leave little room for interpretation.

Hence the dialogue.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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03 August 2016 08:27
 

didn’t read the harris book - read and studied the quran - watched the harris videos

IMO, much of Islam’s troubling history and culture dovetails cleanly with the troubling messages the Quran repeats ad nauseum.

 
 
Hypersoup
 
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Hypersoup
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26 October 2016 01:22
 

That depends on interpretation again. Piety “taqua” stems from ideal like protection, safeguarding, staying away from danger etc.

reference: http://www.erfan.ir/english/61700.html

So the repetitive “sinners will be destroyed” - if thst what icehorse implies -  makes perfect sense in that context. God loves the believers, this is because they listen and are therefore protected. If a secularist said “dont do harm”  and “stay clear of trouble” than the message is very similar.

Youll probably say who needs silly religious ceremonies? Then again I just mnet a bro recently, shot three times in gang related violence, needs a colostomy bag. There are funerals every week for young men in their 20s, being shot stabbed etc.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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26 October 2016 09:16
 
Hypersoup - 26 October 2016 01:22 AM

That depends on interpretation again. Piety “taqua” stems from ideal like protection, safeguarding, staying away from danger etc.

reference: http://www.erfan.ir/english/61700.html

So the repetitive “sinners will be destroyed” - if thst what icehorse implies -  makes perfect sense in that context. God loves the believers, this is because they listen and are therefore protected. If a secularist said “dont do harm”  and “stay clear of trouble” than the message is very similar.

Youll probably say who needs silly religious ceremonies? Then again I just mnet a bro recently, shot three times in gang related violence, needs a colostomy bag. There are funerals every week for young men in their 20s, being shot stabbed etc.

I’m not sure I understand your point. But if your point is that other belief systems also cause trouble (like gang belief systems), then of course I agree, but that doesn’t let Islam off the hook.

 
 
Hypersoup
 
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Hypersoup
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27 October 2016 02:05
 

What is science doing to get people *out of* trouble? I know meditaiotn can help in jails for example, reducing violence.

But I dont see the kind of commitment to social issues like I do from the Catholics for example, but from from scientists.

Like Sam, Pat Churchland, Dawkins - the closest the latter will get is advocating abortion IIRC. Snide. I know they care, but wheres the science? Thats why I say I applaud the pragmatic value of faith.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/why.are.so.many.mexican.priests.being.killed/96410.htm
“Mexican priests are leaders in their communities. They are no saints but they usually do their job very well. It is not strange that they are a target of the gangs. The criminals want people isolated and full of fear,” he said.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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29 October 2016 10:02
 
Hypersoup - 27 October 2016 02:05 AM

What is science doing to get people *out of* trouble? I know meditaiotn can help in jails for example, reducing violence.

But I dont see the kind of commitment to social issues like I do from the Catholics for example, but from from scientists.

Like Sam, Pat Churchland, Dawkins - the closest the latter will get is advocating abortion IIRC. Snide. I know they care, but wheres the science? Thats why I say I applaud the pragmatic value of faith.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/why.are.so.many.mexican.priests.being.killed/96410.htm
“Mexican priests are leaders in their communities. They are no saints but they usually do their job very well. It is not strange that they are a target of the gangs. The criminals want people isolated and full of fear,” he said.

Here’s one counter-argument. Most of the people I know, who either are scientists or who understand science, would agree that we have to limit human population. It’s a no-brainer. But humans continue to breed, and scientists diligently try to find ways to feed more and more people.

 
 
Falcon Teachings
 
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Falcon Teachings
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15 May 2017 20:40
 

I was inspired by “Islam and The Future of Tolerance” to read the Koran. I can summarize the Koran in a sentence: “Submit to (/love) God, with all your heart and mind all the time, exactly as I (Allah) say… or else!” And the “or else” must comprise 40% of the book—all the graphic detail of all the ways you are going to burn in hell. I am curious if others have a similar view or would agree/disagree with that “summary.”

Falcon Teachings

[ Edited: 15 May 2017 20:44 by Falcon Teachings]
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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17 May 2017 00:06
 

I don’t think you will find anyone here with a favorable opinion of said item.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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17 May 2017 07:18
 
Falcon Teachings - 15 May 2017 08:40 PM

I was inspired by “Islam and The Future of Tolerance” to read the Koran. I can summarize the Koran in a sentence: “Submit to (/love) God, with all your heart and mind all the time, exactly as I (Allah) say… or else!” And the “or else” must comprise 40% of the book—all the graphic detail of all the ways you are going to burn in hell. I am curious if others have a similar view or would agree/disagree with that “summary.”

Falcon Teachings

I would amend it a bit to say: 40% of the book belabors how infidels will burn in hell and the 500 reasons why muslims ought to despise them.

 
 
Falcon Teachings
 
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Falcon Teachings
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19 May 2017 08:29
 
icehorse - 17 May 2017 07:18 AM
Falcon Teachings - 15 May 2017 08:40 PM

I was inspired by “Islam and The Future of Tolerance” to read the Koran. I can summarize the Koran in a sentence: “Submit to (/love) God, with all your heart and mind all the time, exactly as I (Allah) say… or else!” And the “or else” must comprise 40% of the book—all the graphic detail of all the ways you are going to burn in hell. I am curious if others have a similar view or would agree/disagree with that “summary.”

Falcon Teachings

I would amend it a bit to say: 40% of the book belabors how infidels will burn in hell and the 500 reasons why muslims ought to despise them.

Well said!
Falcon Teachings