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Why ISIS Are Right

 
Barry0tter
 
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Barry0tter
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24 September 2016 08:35
 

In the sense that Islam is at war with the rest of the world.

I think the following analysis by Matt Bracken is spot on, but if anyone disagrees with his assessment I’d be interested to hear a rebuttal.


“1. Islam

Islam is similar to a self-replicating supercomputer virus. It is a hydra-headed monster, designed by its creators to be an unstoppable formula for global conquest. It’s almost impossible to eradicate, because it has no central brain or control center. Islam is like a starfish: when you cut off a limb, another grows to replace it. The names of the Muslim leaders, and the names of their Islamic groups, are transitory and ultimately unimportant. Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are succeeded by Al-Baghdadi and the Islamic State, but they will all pass from the scene and be replaced by others. While Muslim leaders and regimes have come and gone, Islam itself has remained steadfastly at war with the non-Muslim world for 1,400 years.

Islam does not recognize secular national boundaries. To devout Muslims, there are only two significant realms of the world. First is the Dar al-Islam — the House of Islam, which is the land of the believers. The other is the Dar al-Harb — the House of War, which must be made Islamic by any means, including violent jihad. The expansion of Islam is sometimes held in check for long periods, but more often Islam is on the march, acquiring new territory. Once conquered by Islam, territory is rarely taken back, Spain being a notable exception.

The Muslim world produces almost no books or new inventions. Short of finding oil under their feet, most Islamic nations are backward and impoverished. So wherein lies the power source for Islam’s nearly constant expansion over the past fourteen centuries? The motor and the battery of Islam are the Koran and the Hadith, or sayings of Mohammed. A messianic Mahdi, Caliph or Ayatollah with sufficient charisma can accelerate Islam’s pace of conquest, but individual men are not the driving force.

Secular “Muslim in name only” strongmen from Saddam Hussein to Muamar Qadafi can hold Islamism in check for a period with brutal methods, but strongmen are often assassinated or otherwise removed from power, and in any event, they cannot live forever. Once the secular strongmen are gone, fanatical mullahs are able to stir their zealous Muslim followers into sufficient ardor to reinstall a radical Islamist regime under Sharia Law, according to the Koran.

This pattern of secular strongmen being followed by fanatical Islamist leaders has recurred many times over the past millennium and longer. Do not be fooled by modernists like King Abdullah of Jordan. To the true believer of Islam, any king or strongman is never more than a rifle shot or grenade toss away from being kinetically deposed, and replaced by another Islamist fanatic.

The persistent virulence of Mohammed’s 7th Century plan for global domination means that it is always ready to erupt in a fresh outbreak. Islam is like a brushfire or ringworm infection: it is dead and barren within the ring, but flares up where it parasitically feeds off the healthy non-Islamic societies around it. What produces this uniquely fanatical motivation, from within nations and peoples that otherwise seem devoid of energy and new ideas?


The motivation lies within the words of the Koran and Hadith. Most simply distilled, in the earthly realm, these Islamic texts offer immoral men sanction for thrill-killing, looting, raping, and capturing infidel slaves, and when these jihadists are killed, they are promised a perpetual orgy with seventy-two nubile virgin slave girls in Mohammed’s sick, evil and perverted Muslim paradise. Unlike the Jewish and Christian Bibles, the Koran and Hadith appeal not to man’s better angels, but to the darkest aspects of human nature. (Tellingly, Moses and Jesus are said to have climbed to mountaintops to communicate with their God, while Mohammed received his messages from Allah deep inside a bat cave.)

A meaningful or permanent reformation of Islam is impossible, because a new generation of fanatics, wielding the unexpurgated Koran and Hadith as their weapons, will always declare the reformists to be apostates and murder them. In Islam, the fanatics who are holding the unalterable Koran in one hand and a sword in the other always stand ready to seize complete power and exterminate their enemies.

This latent danger breeds fear and causes nearly all non-Muslims to be carefully circumspect in their dealings with Muslims, lest they lose their heads at a later date. This intentionally fostered fear of Islam is used as a cudgel against those who would otherwise resist its domination. The immutable Koran is the constant fountainhead of bloody Islamic conquest. Radical Islam is the pure Islam, the Koranic Islam, the real Islam.

Anyone who does not understand this bitter reality is dangerously ignorant of the past 1,400 years of human history.”


Full article on Gates of Vienna.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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24 September 2016 08:48
 

I agree with the history. I disagree that the situation is unfixable.

For example, now that the world is connected in real-time via the internet, we can all marginalize Islam at the same time.

 
 
Barry0tter
 
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24 September 2016 09:02
 
icehorse - 24 September 2016 08:48 AM

I agree with the history. I disagree that the situation is unfixable.

For example, now that the world is connected in real-time via the internet, we can all marginalize Islam at the same time.

I don’t think he said it’s unfixable?

For the record I don’t think that either, but I do think the hardest part of the battle will be convincing enough non-muslims of the reality of what we’re up against.

 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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24 September 2016 10:56
 

Islam lost the War at Vienna.

What we have now is a cycle of self-destruction with some collateral damage in the West.

ISIS, Iran and an every Middle Eastern country poses zero geopolitical threat, since they produce no weapons of their own. If China, Russia, the EU and USA all agreed, Muslims would have to use rocks to fight each other.
Economically, the oil-rich countries are trapped in a resource curse and none of the others have any manufacturing worth mentioning. And scientifically, Islamic countries are clinically dead.
And spiritually, Islam has long ago ceased to be a source of culture and learning and has whole become a casus belli: Saudi Arabia will take over the role that Iraq once held in the conflict against Iran and nothing will change for another decade or two.

Even a country as small as the UK could tomorrow tell its submarines to nuke ISIS and that would be it.

The reason why Islam is perceived as a strong religion sill is because it is being kept alive artificially by massive financial and ideological support by countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. These countries don’t want to proselytize, they want the interests of the Muslim diaspora to align with their regimes.

It is also wrong to accuse the “regressive left” or other western liberals of ignoring or even supporting extremism: western intellectuals secretly consider and actually treat Islamists like rebellious teenagers who can’t know better because they had a bad upbringing. They are in no way considered intellectual or moral equals. Any rhetoric about “Islam is a religion of peace” is meant in the same way a teacher might tell a bully during school-break “You are a good kid at heart, really.”.

in many countries there are old Muslim communities who support themselves without funding or control from outside forces. These are fully integrated and consider themselves citizens of their countries first and foremost. They also have accept the separation of religion and state. And most Muslim communities all over the world have been a key asset in identifying and reporting possible terrorist actors.

Violent extremism and call to arms for a fight that almost always ends in martyrdom (a.k.a. death) has the curious effect of efficiently removing the most gullible and potentially violent form society. Contrary to what ISIS&co;. think, there is not an endless supply of people willing to die or kill.

In one point ISIS is of course 100% right: the Wester lifestyle corrupts. And how efficiently.
Muslim traditionalist are panicking because they have to face more and more well-educated women, more people being openly gay, less religious observance, more drinking, more fashion, less niqab.
Iran has at most one more generation of old men telling their young how to behave before it will dramatically shift away from Islamism.

The biggest danger IMO is currently Turkey, because here religion is being bound to nationalism. This is a recipe or war.

 
 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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25 September 2016 06:29
 

Not to be a Grammar Nazi, but I think it should be “Why Isis IS right”.  However, I am puzzled about what members of this group should be called.  Isisites? Reporters will have to practice saying this before they go on air..  Why not just call them STD?  Sick Terrible Demon-possessed.  Oops…I forgot.  That’s what they call us. 

Sorry,..... just trying to break the tension.

Carry on.

[ Edited: 25 September 2016 06:35 by saralynn]
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 September 2016 07:47
 
saralynn - 25 September 2016 06:29 AM

Not to be a Grammar Nazi, but I think it should be “Why Isis IS right”.  However, I am puzzled about what members of this group should be called.  Isisites? Reporters will have to practice saying this before they go on air..  Why not just call them STD?  Sick Terrible Demon-possessed.  Oops…I forgot.  That’s what they call us. 

Sorry,..... just trying to break the tension.

Carry on.

IS-holes… fargin IS-holes

 
 
saralynn
 
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saralynn
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25 September 2016 07:51
 

Ha! Ha!

 
Barry0tter
 
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Barry0tter
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25 September 2016 08:00
 
saralynn - 25 September 2016 06:29 AM

Not to be a Grammar Nazi, but I think it should be “Why Isis IS right”.  However, I am puzzled about what members of this group should be called.  Isisites? Reporters will have to practice saying this before they go on air..  Why not just call them STD?  Sick Terrible Demon-possessed.  Oops…I forgot.  That’s what they call us. 

Sorry,..... just trying to break the tension.

Carry on.

Ha ha I think you is probably correct.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 September 2016 08:09
 
Barry0tter - 25 September 2016 08:00 AM
saralynn - 25 September 2016 06:29 AM

Not to be a Grammar Nazi, but I think it should be “Why Isis IS right”.  However, I am puzzled about what members of this group should be called.  Isisites? Reporters will have to practice saying this before they go on air..  Why not just call them STD?  Sick Terrible Demon-possessed.  Oops…I forgot.  That’s what they call us. 

Sorry,..... just trying to break the tension.

Carry on.

Ha ha I think you is probably correct.

Actually, I think the “is” vs “are” question depends on which the side of “the pond” you reside.

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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25 September 2016 08:29
 

Hey Twissel,

It’s not an actual “guns and bombs” sort of war that concerns me. It’s the slower, softer chipping away of secularism that concerns me. Things like: introducing blasphemy laws, small curtailments of free speech (which of course often lead to large curtailments), reversals of women’s rights and safety, increase in homophobia and anti-semitism, that sort of thing.

 
 
Barry0tter
 
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Barry0tter
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25 September 2016 10:11
 
Twissel - 24 September 2016 10:56 AM

Islam lost the War at Vienna.

What we have now is a cycle of self-destruction with some collateral damage in the West.

ISIS, Iran and an every Middle Eastern country poses zero geopolitical threat, since they produce no weapons of their own. If China, Russia, the EU and USA all agreed, Muslims would have to use rocks to fight each other.
Economically, the oil-rich countries are trapped in a resource curse and none of the others have any manufacturing worth mentioning. And scientifically, Islamic countries are clinically dead.
And spiritually, Islam has long ago ceased to be a source of culture and learning and has whole become a casus belli: Saudi Arabia will take over the role that Iraq once held in the conflict against Iran and nothing will change for another decade or two.

Even a country as small as the UK could tomorrow tell its submarines to nuke ISIS and that would be it.

The reason why Islam is perceived as a strong religion sill is because it is being kept alive artificially by massive financial and ideological support by countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. These countries don’t want to proselytize, they want the interests of the Muslim diaspora to align with their regimes.

It is also wrong to accuse the “regressive left” or other western liberals of ignoring or even supporting extremism: western intellectuals secretly consider and actually treat Islamists like rebellious teenagers who can’t know better because they had a bad upbringing. They are in no way considered intellectual or moral equals. Any rhetoric about “Islam is a religion of peace” is meant in the same way a teacher might tell a bully during school-break “You are a good kid at heart, really.”.

in many countries there are old Muslim communities who support themselves without funding or control from outside forces. These are fully integrated and consider themselves citizens of their countries first and foremost. They also have accept the separation of religion and state. And most Muslim communities all over the world have been a key asset in identifying and reporting possible terrorist actors.

Violent extremism and call to arms for a fight that almost always ends in martyrdom (a.k.a. death) has the curious effect of efficiently removing the most gullible and potentially violent form society. Contrary to what ISIS&co;. think, there is not an endless supply of people willing to die or kill.

In one point ISIS is of course 100% right: the Wester lifestyle corrupts. And how efficiently.
Muslim traditionalist are panicking because they have to face more and more well-educated women, more people being openly gay, less religious observance, more drinking, more fashion, less niqab.
Iran has at most one more generation of old men telling their young how to behave before it will dramatically shift away from Islamism.

The biggest danger IMO is currently Turkey, because here religion is being bound to nationalism. This is a recipe or war.

No argument from me that in a straight up traditional military conflict it would be no contest right now, but if the war was lost at Vienna they haven’t done too badly in the following 300+ years if they’re sitting at roughly 1.6 billion of the global population.

To take your example even if the UK nuked ISIS into oblivion tomorrow we’d still have millions of muslims in our countries to deal with.

I’m assuming that you’re in the US (and please correct me if I’m wrong) so I guess given the population % you may be correct on the current situation in the US and probably see the threat as being largely contained in the middle east, but viewed from a European perspective things look very different. I just don’t see the vast numbers being corrupted by western values that you claim to, quite the opposite in fact. I see more and more Islamic garb being worn on our streets, more and more examples of Muslims raping western women, and more self-imposed segregation rather than integration.

Here’s a scene from the UK and one from Sweden showing how well they blend in. There are literally hundreds more on YT for anyone who cares to look for them.

They’ve also infiltrated our institutions like councils, parliaments, the police and London even has an Islamist mayor! So far he’s given his victory speech in a cathedral - how is that viewed from the muslim world’s perspective? Conquest - banned ads showing girls in bikinis, and set up a special social media police unit to clamp down on “hate speech” i.e. any criticism of Islam or muslims. He was also quick to downplay the recent terrorist attacks in NY & NJ while he was visiting as something you just have to get used to.

If you can provide some evidence to explain your position I’d happily take a look at it, for example which Islamic countries have more gays, drinking, less niqab etc, but I’m afraid your view just seems unrealistically sanguine to me and doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation. I believe we are in a war and we’re losing because we won’t acknowledge it.

If we accept that the OP is largely accurate, and I didn’t see a direct refutation of his analysis, and apply it to the current situation in the West then I think it is apparent that Islam is trying to take over. And doing it pretty well!

 
Twissel
 
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25 September 2016 11:12
 
icehorse - 25 September 2016 08:29 AM

Hey Twissel,

It’s not an actual “guns and bombs” sort of war that concerns me. It’s the slower, softer chipping away of secularism that concerns me. Things like: introducing blasphemy laws, small curtailments of free speech (which of course often lead to large curtailments), reversals of women’s rights and safety, increase in homophobia and anti-semitism, that sort of thing.

as I said, for a country like, say France, this is not a caving-in to Sharia law: it’s a strategy to make it easier for religious Muslims to integrate.
France is fanatically secular, and Germany is by Constitution Christian (so is the UK).
These countries are not at risk to lose any of their humanistic achievements.

 
 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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25 September 2016 11:25
 

@Barry

it is not the religion itself that is doing the infiltration, it is the governments that support certain mosques in the West and send their own Imans to them. They make it purposefully hard for Muslims to integrate.


The total number of Muslims would be worrisome if a) they would be a homogeneous group and b) if they stopped fighting long enough to get their shit together.
But the economy of the Middle East is about to collapse due to the low oil prices. And even though oil has been very cheap for a long time (and through many crises), Western countries are trying hard to become less oil-dependent.
We will not have another US-led Iraq war because there is no economic gain in that.
What might happen is that China, which still needs the oil, could send troops - it has a massive problem with radical Muslims, as does Russia.

The mass migration to the West is the clear sign that the Islam has failed and the people know it: why else would they become the lowest of the low in a country of infidels?
I’m for migration, because it is obviously the sane ones who quit the endless cycle of tribalism and move away: those who stay are the crazy ones.

 

 
 
June
 
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June
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25 September 2016 11:46
 
Barry0tter - 25 September 2016 10:11 AM

Here’s a scene from the UK and one from Sweden showing how well they blend in. There are literally hundreds more on YT for anyone who cares to look for them.

They’ve also infiltrated our institutions like councils, parliaments, the police and London even has an Islamist mayor! So far he’s given his victory speech in a cathedral - how is that viewed from the muslim world’s perspective? Conquest - banned ads showing girls in bikinis, and set up a special social media police unit to clamp down on “hate speech” i.e. any criticism of Islam or muslims. He was also quick to downplay the recent terrorist attacks in NY & NJ while he was visiting as something you just have to get used to.

I don’t have much doubt Islam will prevail through stealth infiltration.  The loudest believers have the passion maybe not the patience, while the moderates appear silent, with the patience minus the passion.    It seems to my mind western secularism is frightened of the stain of being accused of intolerance, which is a fear that does not carry over to the other side.  Why is that?    More so, few people will openly say,  your religion frightens me, without the concern of being labeled Islamophobic.  Something else I do not understand. 

  Terms are freely tossed around such as,  “Xenophobic or Islamophobic.”  The very idea of closing borders to people that will not assimilate is thought to be cruel, intolerant and Xenophobic.  It will not be long before we hear of words like,  ISISophobia, and people may readily go along with that too.  Islam is gaining ground,  but I would not agree they are right. 

I found the group behavior interesting to observe, from both of the utubes.    In the UK utube, they were indignant, and had no qualms about showing open aggression, verbally,  towards the single, young woman.  The group successfully played off for the camera, as the role of victims, though they had the numbers.  A very stern, authoritarian and self righteous crowd. 

We are in for some interesting times ahead of us. 

 

[ Edited: 25 September 2016 12:18 by June]
 
 
Barry0tter
 
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Barry0tter
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26 September 2016 13:14
 
icehorse - 25 September 2016 08:29 AM

Hey Twissel,

It’s not an actual “guns and bombs” sort of war that concerns me. It’s the slower, softer chipping away of secularism that concerns me. Things like: introducing blasphemy laws, small curtailments of free speech (which of course often lead to large curtailments), reversals of women’s rights and safety, increase in homophobia and anti-semitism, that sort of thing.

This is succinct and correct.

There’s also the side order of rape, violence and intimidation to scare the native population into silence and submission.

 
Barry0tter
 
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Barry0tter
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26 September 2016 13:53
 
June - 25 September 2016 11:46 AM
Barry0tter - 25 September 2016 10:11 AM

Here’s a scene from the UK and one from Sweden showing how well they blend in. There are literally hundreds more on YT for anyone who cares to look for them.

They’ve also infiltrated our institutions like councils, parliaments, the police and London even has an Islamist mayor! So far he’s given his victory speech in a cathedral - how is that viewed from the muslim world’s perspective? Conquest - banned ads showing girls in bikinis, and set up a special social media police unit to clamp down on “hate speech” i.e. any criticism of Islam or muslims. He was also quick to downplay the recent terrorist attacks in NY & NJ while he was visiting as something you just have to get used to.

I don’t have much doubt Islam will prevail through stealth infiltration.  The loudest believers have the passion maybe not the patience, while the moderates appear silent, with the patience minus the passion.    It seems to my mind western secularism is frightened of the stain of being accused of intolerance, which is a fear that does not carry over to the other side.  Why is that?    More so, few people will openly say,  your religion frightens me, without the concern of being labeled Islamophobic.  Something else I do not understand. 

  Terms are freely tossed around such as,  “Xenophobic or Islamophobic.”  The very idea of closing borders to people that will not assimilate is thought to be cruel, intolerant and Xenophobic.  It will not be long before we hear of words like,  ISISophobia, and people may readily go along with that too.  Islam is gaining ground,  but I would not agree they are right. 

I found the group behavior interesting to observe, from both of the utubes.    In the UK utube, they were indignant, and had no qualms about showing open aggression, verbally,  towards the single, young woman.  The group successfully played off for the camera, as the role of victims, though they had the numbers.  A very stern, authoritarian and self righteous crowd. 

We are in for some interesting times ahead of us.

I sincerely hope you’re wrong!

In the sense that you have no doubt Islam will win.

I’m investing a lot of hope in Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, he has the right approach and if it goes well for them then it could provide inspiration and the courage for other countries to follow suit.

I do believe that each western country that wants to save its own people and culture will have to adopt similar policies.

 
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