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It’s that time again…...911WTC…....just a question.

 
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15 October 2016 11:55
 
MrRon - 15 October 2016 06:06 AM
Throwdare - 14 October 2016 06:02 PM

No.

Maybe some ants, who have eaten some spider, or some kryptonite, have pissed on the steel and then….Booom!

In other words, I don’t know what happened. I only know that the offical version of what happend isn’t what actually happend, because that goes against every kind of reason.

Maybe “god” did it. Who knows.

You’re an expert in architecture, the demolition of buildings or otherwise certified as knowledgable regading the causes of buildings who come down in free fall? If not, what kind of expert are you? Just curious.

Edit: I just reply to you like this because I think the way you approach the issue does not seem to be un-biased to me. Maybe I’m just in a paranoid state of mind right now.

Actually, you’re right! Ants could have brought down the buildings. And maybe a God did it too. Also, other causes that have not been ruled out are:

- Russian psychics (more accurately, those with macro PK ability)
- Unusually powerful localized atmospheric downbursts
- Invisible Alien rays from space

Etc.

So go ahead and write down ALL the ways the buildings could have collapsed. And then put them in order from what you consider most likely to least likely. Which of those ways do you have as most likely?

You say that the official story “goes against every kind of reason”. Yet you seem reluctant to apply reason to the questions I asked (Why use planes when the only way to bring the buildings down is with explosives? Why blame Saudis when we plan on attacking Iraq? And why kill thousands of our own citizens when we could easily concoct a story that wouldn’t involve loss of innocent lives?). If you’re going to dismiss the official story, then you have to provide plausible answers to those questions. And if you’re going to use “reason”, then you have to speculate to some degree. To just stop reasoning your way through the possibilities while insisting that you don’t like/agree with the official story is intellectual dishonesty.   

You don’t need to be an expert in architecture or building demolition to evaluate what happened on 9/11 any more than you need to be an expert in rocketry to conclude that we went to the moon. But hey, if you, or anyone, can someday provide convincing evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, then I’ll gladly accept it. But to punt and say, “I don’t know, but it just couldn’t have been the way we were told” doesn’t cut it.

Thanks.

Ron

Once again, Ron, I doubt the official version of what happend on 9/11, but I’m not an expert in 9/11 research. And just because I doubt what someone is telling as being the whole picture does not mean I have to “know” what really happend instead. In other words, I can doubt a statement as being true when I think there are many flaws in that statement without already knowing why the speaker isn’t truthfull. I can spot a lie without knowing why and what for one is lying, without already knowing the motive why one is lying. You agree?

Is there evidence that there was insider stock-trading befor 9/11 happend?
Who benefitted financially from the catastrophe? (How where the buildings insuranced and who got how much money from it?)
How comes that the BBC reported the comming down of building 7 before it actually happend?
How comes that very shortly after the catastrophe the official spokes-persons already “knew” and announced who did it?
What better way do you know to announce a constant war against terror than a huge catastrophe that happens right infront of the eyes of everybody?
Who has an interest in calling 9/11 researchers conspiracy-theorists aka paranoid nut-jobs?


And…

Do you believe the official 9/11 story is what actually was the case? It covers all the events, the hows and whys and who-did-it Yes or no?

And thanks for your take on intellectual dishonesty. I’ll try to better myself. Please keep me informed regarding what actually happend, if you know it. Else just let us end our conversation right here.

 

 

 
 
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15 October 2016 12:28
 

Building 7 comes later in the sequence, lets go back to the beginning

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-list.htm

So all these crews and people have family and friends, they booked tickets went to the airport checked in but vanished before getting on their planes. The planes that left the airport were special fake planes that looked exactly like real planes but had special engines that would burn, and they were secretly swapped with the airline planes. They had flight plans to the airport, they landed and went to gates where fake ground crews serviced the planes, where fake passengers loaded on to the planes but then somehow got off before the planes took off.

And how do we know the above happened? Because someone says there was missing DNA and engine parts so this could be the only explanation possible.

And why was all the above done? To cover up a secret plot to blow up the WTC and blame it on terrorists so we could attack Iraq and spend a trillions dollars so defensive companies could make big money and the Army get new toys.

And how do we know the above happened? Because the someone says the video of building 7 collapsing looks like demolition and there is no way a burning building could collapse so that is the explanation possible. Or if you don’t want to come out as 911 truther then you just say that the official story doesn’t hold up i.e. your not sure how the secret explosives that brought the building got there.

 

 
 
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15 October 2016 14:44
 
Throwdare - 15 October 2016 11:55 AM

Once again, Ron, I doubt the official version of what happend on 9/11, but I’m not an expert in 9/11 research. And just because I doubt what someone is telling as being the whole picture does not mean I have to “know” what really happend instead. In other words, I can doubt a statement as being true when I think there are many flaws in that statement without already knowing why the speaker isn’t truthfull. I can spot a lie without knowing why and what for one is lying, without already knowing the motive why one is lying. You agree?

Is there evidence that there was insider stock-trading befor 9/11 happend?
Who benefitted financially from the catastrophe? (How where the buildings insuranced and who got how much money from it?)
How comes that the BBC reported the comming down of building 7 before it actually happend?
How comes that very shortly after the catastrophe the official spokes-persons already “knew” and announced who did it?
What better way do you know to announce a constant war against terror than a huge catastrophe that happens right infront of the eyes of everybody?
Who has an interest in calling 9/11 researchers conspiracy-theorists aka paranoid nut-jobs?

And…

Do you believe the official 9/11 story is what actually was the case? It covers all the events, the hows and whys and who-did-it Yes or no?

And thanks for your take on intellectual dishonesty. I’ll try to better myself. Please keep me informed regarding what actually happend, if you know it. Else just let us end our conversation right here.

Again, one doesn’t have to be an expert in building construction in order to piece together the events of 9/11, weigh the different possible explanations, and come to some sort of plausible conclusion. Anyway, what is the specific lie that you so keenly spotted? That building 7 collapsed due to fire? That commercial planes (or ANY planes) flew into the twin towers? That a plane crashed in Pennsylvania? That a plane hit the Pentagon?

I do believe the official story because I believe it to be far more plausible than the story that the 9/11 truthers are claiming. The alternative story raises far more questions than it answers. Ockham’s razor and all that. Plus, extraordinary claims (in this case, that this was perpetrated by our own government) requires extraordinary evidence. Where is the smoking gun that implicates the government?? There isn’t. 

Perhaps the reason 9/11 “researchers conspiracy-theorists” have such a bad rap is because they have such a weak alternative to the official story (not to mention that their talking points have been debunked over and over). Come up with some actual, positive, compelling evidence (not just question asking) and they’ll get more credibility. 

PS - Just out of curiosity, do you believe the moon landings were faked by our government? Or do you believe the official story?


Ron

 
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15 October 2016 15:26
 
MrRon - 15 October 2016 02:44 PM
Throwdare - 15 October 2016 11:55 AM

Once again, Ron, I doubt the official version of what happend on 9/11, but I’m not an expert in 9/11 research. And just because I doubt what someone is telling as being the whole picture does not mean I have to “know” what really happend instead. In other words, I can doubt a statement as being true when I think there are many flaws in that statement without already knowing why the speaker isn’t truthfull. I can spot a lie without knowing why and what for one is lying, without already knowing the motive why one is lying. You agree?

Is there evidence that there was insider stock-trading befor 9/11 happend?
Who benefitted financially from the catastrophe? (How where the buildings insuranced and who got how much money from it?)
How comes that the BBC reported the comming down of building 7 before it actually happend?
How comes that very shortly after the catastrophe the official spokes-persons already “knew” and announced who did it?
What better way do you know to announce a constant war against terror than a huge catastrophe that happens right infront of the eyes of everybody?
Who has an interest in calling 9/11 researchers conspiracy-theorists aka paranoid nut-jobs?

And…

Do you believe the official 9/11 story is what actually was the case? It covers all the events, the hows and whys and who-did-it Yes or no?

And thanks for your take on intellectual dishonesty. I’ll try to better myself. Please keep me informed regarding what actually happend, if you know it. Else just let us end our conversation right here.

Again, one doesn’t have to be an expert in building construction in order to piece together the events of 9/11, weigh the different possible explanations, and come to some sort of plausible conclusion. Anyway, what is the specific lie that you so keenly spotted? That building 7 collapsed due to fire? That commercial planes (or ANY planes) flew into the twin towers? That a plane crashed in Pennsylvania? That a plane hit the Pentagon?

I do believe the official story because I believe it to be far more plausible than the story that the 9/11 truthers are claiming. The alternative story raises far more questions than it answers. Ockham’s razor and all that. Plus, extraordinary claims (in this case, that this was perpetrated by our own government) requires extraordinary evidence. Where is the smoking gun that implicates the government?? There isn’t. 

Perhaps the reason 9/11 “researchers conspiracy-theorists” have such a bad rap is because they have such a weak alternative to the official story (not to mention that their talking points have been debunked over and over). Come up with some actual, positive, compelling evidence (not just question asking) and they’ll get more credibility. 

PS - Just out of curiosity, do you believe the moon landings were faked by our government? Or do you believe the official story?


Ron

Thank your for being so honest to admit you believe the offical story wholeheartedly..

Why and what for are you pushing me to make a statement about what I think isn’t true about the official version? Why is that of such interest for you?

There have been whistleblowers who sued lawsuits and got dismissed by the courts. There have been requests for documents that have been denied for reasons of national security, or have gotten answers that there are no records regarding/concerning their requests.

Here is an hour long video about this cases. Showing atterneys who where involved in those cases.

Declassifying the Truth 2015 “The Lawyer’s Committee for 9/11 Inquiry”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9ns0SIGo


By the way, I don’t not just believe the earth is flat and made out of alien-concrete mixed with cheese, I also think NASA does not exist nor do rockets or the moon. Furthermore to I believe that Geoge W. Bush is a transgender men, who formally was born as Georgia and got his operation to be a men made by aliens from Mars. Angela Merkel is not Hitlers daughter but Stalins. I also believe that humans are genetically manipulated by aliens to have ten fingers. Usually they had just eight. Thanks for the thumps, et’s!

 
 
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16 October 2016 06:04
 
Throwdare - 15 October 2016 03:26 PM

Thank your for being so honest to admit you believe the offical story wholeheartedly..

You’re welcome. If you have a more plausible story, let’s hear it. 

 

Why and what for are you pushing me to make a statement about what I think isn’t true about the official version? Why is that of such interest for you?

Because you told us you can spot a lie. Don’t you think it’s natural for us to want to know what the specific lie is??? Why be so evasive about it? 

 

There have been whistleblowers who sued lawsuits and got dismissed by the courts. There have been requests for documents that have been denied for reasons of national security, or have gotten answers that there are no records regarding/concerning their requests.

Here is an hour long video about this cases. Showing atterneys who where involved in those cases.

Declassifying the Truth 2015 “The Lawyer’s Committee for 9/11 Inquiry”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9ns0SIGo

Dismissed whistleblowers and denied requests for documents tell us nothing about what really happened on 9/11 (if the official story is indeed false). And if I requested NASA’s official Apollo 11 documents and got denied, would I then be justified in thinking the moon landings were a hoax?

As far as your link, can you please sum it up for us? Personally, I don’t have an hour to dedicate to a youtube video. And besides, I’m pretty sure I can counter with my own hour long videos. I don’t think that sort of approach would be very productive.

 

By the way, I don’t not just believe the earth is flat and made out of alien-concrete mixed with cheese, I also think NASA does not exist nor do rockets or the moon. Furthermore to I believe that Geoge W. Bush is a transgender men, who formally was born as Georgia and got his operation to be a men made by aliens from Mars. Angela Merkel is not Hitlers daughter but Stalins. I also believe that humans are genetically manipulated by aliens to have ten fingers. Usually they had just eight. Thanks for the thumps, et’s!

Whew, that’s a relief! For a minute there I thought you were one of those Bigfoot crackpots!


Ron

[ Edited: 16 October 2016 06:07 by MrRon]
 
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16 October 2016 08:03
 
MrRon - 16 October 2016 06:04 AM
Throwdare - 15 October 2016 03:26 PM

Thank your for being so honest to admit you believe the offical story wholeheartedly..

You’re welcome. If you have a more plausible story, let’s hear it. 

 

Why and what for are you pushing me to make a statement about what I think isn’t true about the official version? Why is that of such interest for you?

Because you told us you can spot a lie. Don’t you think it’s natural for us to want to know what the specific lie is??? Why be so evasive about it? 

 

There have been whistleblowers who sued lawsuits and got dismissed by the courts. There have been requests for documents that have been denied for reasons of national security, or have gotten answers that there are no records regarding/concerning their requests.

Here is an hour long video about this cases. Showing atterneys who where involved in those cases.

Declassifying the Truth 2015 “The Lawyer’s Committee for 9/11 Inquiry”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5c9ns0SIGo

Dismissed whistleblowers and denied requests for documents tell us nothing about what really happened on 9/11 (if the official story is indeed false). And if I requested NASA’s official Apollo 11 documents and got denied, would I then be justified in thinking the moon landings were a hoax?

As far as your link, can you please sum it up for us? Personally, I don’t have an hour to dedicate to a youtube video. And besides, I’m pretty sure I can counter with my own hour long videos. I don’t think that sort of approach would be very productive.

 

By the way, I don’t not just believe the earth is flat and made out of alien-concrete mixed with cheese, I also think NASA does not exist nor do rockets or the moon. Furthermore to I believe that Geoge W. Bush is a transgender men, who formally was born as Georgia and got his operation to be a men made by aliens from Mars. Angela Merkel is not Hitlers daughter but Stalins. I also believe that humans are genetically manipulated by aliens to have ten fingers. Usually they had just eight. Thanks for the thumps, et’s!

Whew, that’s a relief! For a minute there I thought you were one of those Bigfoot crackpots!


Ron

Hey Ron!

Thanks for keeping the dialog going.

Here is a question I would like you to answer first before I eventually answer one your questions.

Are you 100% sure that there are no scientific papers out there that contain evidence that insider trading on the stock-market via put-options have been traded before the catastophe of 9/11?

If you’re not informed regarding my question, just say “I don’t know.” Else please elaborate.

By the way, Bigfoot isn’t real but there is a monster in some sea in Scottland. Also: I can fart the Godfather theme, but only the first tone…yet.

Kind regards,
An aging barby-doll who desperately needs a new front-tooth but has a dentist phobie.

 
 
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16 October 2016 09:41
 
Throwdare - 16 October 2016 08:03 AM

Hey Ron!

Thanks for keeping the dialog going.

Here is a question I would like you to answer first before I eventually answer one your questions.

Are you 100% sure that there are no scientific papers out there that contain evidence that insider trading on the stock-market via put-options have been traded before the catastophe of 9/11?

If you’re not informed regarding my question, just say “I don’t know.” Else please elaborate.

By the way, Bigfoot isn’t real but there is a monster in some sea in Scottland. Also: I can fart the Godfather theme, but only the first tone…yet.

Kind regards,
An aging barby-doll who desperately needs a new front-tooth but has a dentist phobie.

I am not 100% positive about ANYTHING. The only thing we can truly be 100% sure about is that we are thinking beings.

You started out by indicating that the collapse of WTC 7 could not have been caused by ensuing fires and stress (it certainly could have). Then I asked questions regarding relative plausible scenarios which you did not answer. Then you said you could spot a lie (although you’re not saying what the lie is). Now you bring up insider trading (as if that proves something). Do you have a more plausible explanation for the events of 9/11 than the official story or not? Please say so if you do. If not, the conversation is over.

I think a better theme to fart would be the Jaws theme.


Regards,
The more talented half of Milli Vanilli

 

 

 
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16 October 2016 09:50
 
MrRon - 16 October 2016 09:41 AM
Throwdare - 16 October 2016 08:03 AM

Hey Ron!

Thanks for keeping the dialog going.

Here is a question I would like you to answer first before I eventually answer one your questions.

Are you 100% sure that there are no scientific papers out there that contain evidence that insider trading on the stock-market via put-options have been traded before the catastophe of 9/11?

If you’re not informed regarding my question, just say “I don’t know.” Else please elaborate.

By the way, Bigfoot isn’t real but there is a monster in some sea in Scottland. Also: I can fart the Godfather theme, but only the first tone…yet.

Kind regards,
An aging barby-doll who desperately needs a new front-tooth but has a dentist phobie.

I am not 100% positive about ANYTHING. The only thing we can truly be 100% sure about is that we are thinking beings.

You started out by indicating that the collapse of WTC 7 could not have been caused by ensuing fires and stress (it certainly could have). Then I asked questions regarding relative plausible scenarios which you did not answer. Then you said you could spot a lie (although you’re not saying what the lie is). Now you bring up insider trading (as if that proves something). Do you have a more plausible explanation for the events of 9/11 than the official story or not? Please say so if you do. If not, the conversation is over.

I think a better theme to fart would be the Jaws theme.


Regards,
The more talented half of Milli Vanilli

 

 

Dear Ron,

not that I think you don’t mean well when engaging with me here, I just don’t think you are as intellectually honest as you think you are. That’s why I don’t make any further comments on the topic of 9/11 here.

And yes, you got me. I stole a joke.

Kind regards,
Frank Zappa’s (not formally but spiritually) adopted daughter.

PS: Feel free to nevertheless continue the dialog. Else this is my final statement in this thread.

 
 
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16 October 2016 11:51
 

Ron, you seem to not be particularly quick in responding here. I wonder how comes. Are you too buisy to engage on a more spontanious level in this kind of discussion?

You said you have no time to listen to a video that is just an hour long. How comes? What is your occupation that prevents you from that? Just curious.

 
 
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16 October 2016 13:19
 

Thanks for the conversation. You may continue conspiracizing with yourself. Let us know when you have something more than “doubts”. It’s been a blast (pun intended).  grin


Ron

 
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16 October 2016 13:38
 
MrRon - 16 October 2016 01:19 PM

Thanks for the conversation. You may continue conspiracizing with yourself. Let us know when you have something more than “doubts”. It’s been a blast (pun intended).  grin


Ron

Yeah, yeah, yeah….let me also know if you come across some scientific papers that provide evidence that insider stock-market trading had been done by put-options concerning/regarding certain us-american airlines before 9/11 happend. Not that I think that you would come across those papers. I just think I give you the option to keep up a straight face when tellling me you believe the official version. .

Nice to know you care about your reputation of being spontanious, Ron.

By the way, I believe that Bob Marley was murdered but the footage isn’t released yet, and so was Peter Tosh. They both died from a weed-overdose, given to them by Lee (Scratch) Perry. I also believe that my neigbour brakes into my appartement when I’m not at home and replaces some stuff, like, my glasses, who I thought are on my desk, but are in the fridge when I return and such. That’s prove that us-american agencys are messing with my mind.

 
 
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19 October 2016 12:09
 
Throwdare - 16 October 2016 01:38 PM
MrRon - 16 October 2016 01:19 PM

Thanks for the conversation. You may continue conspiracizing with yourself. Let us know when you have something more than “doubts”. It’s been a blast (pun intended).  grin


Ron

Ron, just wondering why you are so afraid of knowing the truth. Seriously, anyone with a inquisitive mind and a high school physics class can ask the same questions presented here….how does a skyscraper fall free-fall 47 stories from a small contained fire on a single floor, debris from a building hundreds of yards away that’s on fire. May I ask again, how steel catches on fire and launches itself hundreds of yards horizontally into another building, and somehow taking it down, when in fact buildings closer to the source of debris, which caught considerable more thrown steel did not? Funny how a building, 3 in fact, can have fatigued steel beams shoot out of buildings rather than just collapse under the stress of weight, and fall as proven by any other building collapses in history…...hmmmm.  Their are many photos of the surrounding buildings that had structural beam sections sticking into them…I wonder how that can be? If they were in fact fatigued by heat, they would bend, they would fold, they wouldn’t be launched as missiles and penetrate other steel beams unaffected by heat. But what do I know, I only spent my entire life working in steel mills with plasma and laser technologies cutting steel and manufacturing continuous steel beams identical to the structures at WTC. What could I possibly know about carbon steel beam properties under stress and heat?

 

 
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19 October 2016 13:02
 
911defender - 19 October 2016 12:09 PM
Throwdare - 16 October 2016 01:38 PM

But what do I know, I only spent my entire life working in steel mills with plasma and laser technologies cutting steel and manufacturing continuous steel beams identical to the structures at WTC.

Zero percent chance of that being even remotely true. Is 15 years really too long to expect someone to take a hint?

 
 
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19 October 2016 14:09
 
Hitchens Immortal - 19 October 2016 01:02 PM
911defender - 19 October 2016 12:09 PM
Throwdare - 16 October 2016 01:38 PM

But what do I know, I only spent my entire life working in steel mills with plasma and laser technologies cutting steel and manufacturing continuous steel beams identical to the structures at WTC.

Zero percent chance of that being even remotely true. Is 15 years really too long to expect someone to take a hint?

I meant to say I spent my entire life in the steel industry, the last 10 years with plasma technology….Northwestern Steel and Wire made the largest continuous steel beams on the planet. Our technology included 3-400 ton electric arc furnaces inline with a 7 strand continuous caster…...no other company in the world had them. Our beams were manufactured for skyscrapers and bridges all over the world….We created more high carbon beam types than anyone.
The commission on 911 was delayed an inordinate amount of time after the event compared to any other tragedy in this country’s history. Not months, rather years. It doesn’t surprise me any that the proof was buried as deeply as it could be…....fortunately access to government files are now available as well as improved technology, ie, forensic technology to bring key information to light….

It’s like Trumps taxes…....if there’s nothing to hide…show them!.....what is Congress afraid of not addressing the reopening of the commissions report?....They aren’t doing anything else!

[ Edited: 19 October 2016 14:14 by 911defender]
 
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19 October 2016 14:22
 
911defender - 19 October 2016 02:09 PM

It’s like Trumps taxes…....if there’s nothing to hide…show them!.....

I’m going to give you credit for saying something sane here. But I’m sorry, there is overwhelming evidence that jet fuel can weaken steel beams and that much like Jenga, when you weaken the integrity of them enough the top falls down and gravity does the rest. For every tin foil hat there are 1000 on-the-level engineers that corroborate the official story. All your supposed experience working in the steel industry says is that they want employees who can operate a pattern machine more than they want critical thinkers on their staff.

 
 
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