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Do we like Muslims now?

 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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08 February 2017 16:11
 

This forum has had several threads debating whether Muslims can be modern and moderate.  Many posters have argued that the teachings of Islam make this impossible.

Since Pres Trump’s Executive Order banning immigration from seven Muslim countries, much support has been shown for these people through traditional and social media as well as public demonstrations.  Major tech companies have come out against the ban (Twitter, Google, Apple, Uber, Adobe, HP, Tesla, etc.).

Does this mean that the majority of people have faith that Muslims can integrate peaceably into Western society?  If so, is this true?

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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08 February 2017 16:43
 

I can only speak for myself.  Although concerned about the effect of some of the teachings of Islam, I do not want to see anyone discriminated against because of their religion.  Many Muslim families are living under terrible and uncertain conditions and should have our compassion.  I hope, and want to believe, that the majority of Muslims who wish to immigrate to North America want a free and peaceful life for themselves and their families.  I think most people support fair vetting practices in regards to immigration, but an overall ban is an entirely different situation.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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08 February 2017 17:10
 

Yes, I don’t care for Islam, but I know a number of Muslims who are fine people, so it’s hard to lump them in with the extremists. Depends on the individual, like every other group of people.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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08 February 2017 17:45
 
EN - 08 February 2017 05:10 PM

Yes, I don’t care for *Islam*, but I know a number of Muslims who are fine people, so it’s hard to lump them in with the extremists. Depends on the individual, like every other group of people.

Walking on thin ice with that statement.  Unless a group is specifically dedicated to illegal and/or anti-social activities then the law considers all of us individuals.

As for the OP’s question, Muslims don’t bother me like Islam does, with the difference being Muslims are people and Islam is an idea.

“Radical” Muslim:  https://youtu.be/cqXsJYCmg28

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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08 February 2017 17:57
 

I share being on call with a very nice and kind Muslim physician.
His family is great.
I know the kids and watched them grow up.
They are all born and raised in America.
Although born in Pakistan, The Physician is fully Americanized.
I consider him my friend.

When the Charlie Hebdo magazine offices were attacked because they published a picture of Mohamed,
My muslim friend told me that he was sad that the cartoonists “had to be killed”,
...“but its not right that somebody should be allowed to insult Islam by drawing a picture of the Prophet.
It should be strongly discouraged or made illegal.”

The coward that I am, I did not confront him with the idea that cartoon drawing is a form of free speech,
and that no religion is protected from scrutiny and criticism.


So, despite the fact that I would like to say that Muslim people are nice,
what this professionally successful and completely Americanized Muslim said about that incident,
makes one question what our attitudes should be towards our Muslim friends and colleagues.

If My friend knew I posted at SHF, would he think that I should be punished, or worse?

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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08 February 2017 18:17
 

That was a deep post, jeff.  Good luck reconciling your friendship with your true beliefs.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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08 February 2017 18:54
 
jdrnd - 08 February 2017 05:57 PM

I share being on call with a very nice and kind Muslim physician.
His family is great.
I know the kids and watched them grow up.
They are all born and raised in America.
Although born in Pakistan, The Physician is fully Americanized.
I consider him my friend.

When the Charlie Hebdo magazine offices were attacked because they published a picture of Mohamed,
My muslim friend told me that he was sad that the cartoonists “had to be killed”,
...“but its not right that somebody should be allowed to insult Islam by drawing a picture of the Prophet.
It should be strongly discouraged or made illegal.”

That was a very disturbing comment from your friend.  I wonder if his children share these views.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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08 February 2017 19:12
 
Skipshot - 08 February 2017 06:17 PM

That was a deep post, jeff.  Good luck reconciling your friendship with your true beliefs.

The point is not about friendship, but rather that I(we) all come in contact with very nice seemingly normal ordinary people who just happen to be Muslim. 
and most of us here want to give them the benefit of the doubt.
My friend consistently tells me that Islam is a peaceful religion.
He is peaceful, he behaves peacefully.
He is always well mannered, he is kind to his patients.
He never raises his voice.
and yet??

If I told him I was an atheist (I masquerade as a Jew)
and what I really thought
I wonder what would happen?

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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08 February 2017 19:15
 
Jan_CAN - 08 February 2017 06:54 PM

That was a very disturbing comment from your friend.  I wonder if his children share these views.

Don’t know,

Three of his children are engineers, one is going to be a physician.
They are 100% American albeit Muslim.  All under 30 years of age.

 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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08 February 2017 19:24
 

I wonder what he would have said if you had replied, “Really, killed?”

You have more self-control than I do.  I think I at least would have gasped or my eyes would have widened in surprise.

Once, a Christian friend of mine told me that she was friends with a lesbian woman, but let her know she would not attend her gay wedding because she did not approve.  I told her that was mean.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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08 February 2017 19:38
 
jdrnd - 08 February 2017 07:12 PM
Skipshot - 08 February 2017 06:17 PM

That was a deep post, jeff.  Good luck reconciling your friendship with your true beliefs.

The point is not about friendship, but rather that I(we) all come in contact with very nice seemingly normal ordinary people who just happen to be Muslim. 
and most of us here want to give them the benefit of the doubt.
My friend consistently tells me that Islam is a peaceful religion.
He is peaceful, he behaves peacefully.
He is always well mannered, he is kind to his patients.
He never raises his voice.
and yet??

If I told him I was an atheist (I masquerade as a Jew)
and what I really thought
I wonder what would happen?

Sorry if I’m butting in here.  This is a difficult situation; only you can decide what is best to do.

Objectively, I think that people who voice these types of views should not be pussyfooted around – they should be ‘called on’ for these views.  Just as we wouldn’t listen to a racist joke and say nothing.  Silence can be interpreted as agreement, or at least not strong disagreement.  They need to be made to really think about what they are saying, and to be made aware how wrong we think these views are.  We don’t have to act angrily or aggressively; we just have to make it clear we do not agree.  (I know – easier said than done – like everything.)

 

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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08 February 2017 19:47
 
hannahtoo - 08 February 2017 07:24 PM

Once, a Christian friend of mine told me that she was friends with a lesbian woman, but let her know she would not attend her gay wedding because she did not approve.  I told her that was mean.

Perfect reply!  I bet that left her speechless.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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08 February 2017 20:05
 

It’s always interesting to see all the acrobatics people go through to try and separate Islam and Muslims so as not to be labeled a bad person. You never see this with Nazism, or racism or pedophilia etc, only religion gets this special treatment, everyone else is a scum for their bad beliefs and actions.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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08 February 2017 20:31
 
GAD - 08 February 2017 08:05 PM

It’s always interesting to see all the acrobatics people go through to try and separate Islam and Muslims so as not to be labeled a bad person. You never see this with Nazism, or racism or pedophilia etc, only religion gets this special treatment, everyone else is a scum for their bad beliefs and actions.

It’s not about being ‘labeled’ a bad person.  It is a very real struggle for many of us to try not to judge people unfairly because of the beliefs and actions of some.  Not all Muslims hold the same views and it would be unfair to treat them as if they did.  As I’ve said previously, I have lost someone I loved to Islamist terrorism.  Hate would come easy.  I won’t let it – hate just breeds more hate.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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08 February 2017 21:04
 
GAD - 08 February 2017 08:05 PM

It’s always interesting to see all the acrobatics people go through to try and separate Islam and Muslims so as not to be labeled a bad person. You never see this with Nazism, or racism or pedophilia etc, only religion gets this special treatment, everyone else is a scum for their bad beliefs and actions.

Good point.  Then again, religion is heavily cherry picked, and illegal and socially unacceptable parts are ignored.  Also, holding distasteful ideas is not illegal, but acting on them is. 

There is a lot of bad crap about Christianity, too, but most of us atheists ignore it in our interactions with Christians and don’t think much about separating the person from the religion.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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08 February 2017 22:57
 
Jan_CAN - 08 February 2017 08:31 PM
GAD - 08 February 2017 08:05 PM

It’s always interesting to see all the acrobatics people go through to try and separate Islam and Muslims so as not to be labeled a bad person. You never see this with Nazism, or racism or pedophilia etc, only religion gets this special treatment, everyone else is a scum for their bad beliefs and actions.

It’s not about being ‘labeled’ a bad person.  It is a very real struggle for many of us to try not to judge people unfairly because of the beliefs and actions of some.  Not all Muslims hold the same views and it would be unfair to treat them as if they did.  As I’ve said previously, I have lost someone I loved to Islamist terrorism.  Hate would come easy.  I won’t let it – hate just breeds more hate.

Which Nazis, racist, homophobes etc are the nice ones? The ones who only spout the beliefs but don’t do the killing themselves?

 
 
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