EN, to play it safe and judge humanity by the worst scenario is being gullible to our fears and suspicions.
Today’s skeptics literally believe in nothing their senses can’t confirm, and this is being gullible to our limited perceptions.
And to hear great stories like God has produced, to only equate them all to a story about Zeus, is being gullible to our ignorance.
The only way to stop being gullible is to take a story and find out for ourselves if it’s true.
To simply make general opinionated statements about a gullible humanity, while searching for examples outside of our own experiences, is to be gullible to our opinions and personalities.
Skeptics are not the least gullible people on the planet, but the most, because the stories they believe they tell themselves, no matter how opinionated and ignorant they and their stories are.
You didn’t answer the question. You yourself do not believe most of the stories that are out there. You don’t believe the stories about Greek and Norse gods. Yet some people took those as true for years. So how do you distinguish between Odysseus sailing between Scylla and Charibdis, and Jonah being swallowed by a whale for three days but surviving?
I’ve told you a half dozen times that God’s spirit is always revealing his existence and attributes, but always within the parameters of our free will and human history and culture.
Zeus isn’t a falsehood, but another step towards God’s fuller revelations of himself, which peaked in the fullness in time when he gave to a single person his greatest power and love.
To know God is to see him always present throughout human history.
The specific details of what an ancient person thought about God intellectually are infinitely less important than the spirit of God moving in that person.
Our intellects were brought along for the ride until we arrived at this moment in time when the greatest person ever born showed us the Truth about God that doesn’t need any more explanation.
Pilate wanted an explanation, but what he got was this greatest person ever born standing silently in front of him doing everything perfectly to profoundly ensure the greatest coming of the Holy Spirit God could give without showing up himself.
Now, through the divine love in Jesus’ heart (Catholics have a devotion to his Sacred Heart), we no longer say that God is here or there, for God is in all our hearts, no matter how deformed a person willfully becomes.
It takes a real dumbass to keep asking the stupid question, “What God do you believe in?”
I understand you progressive revelation argument, but that’s not what we are talking about here. Today many people in America believe the world was created in a literal 7 days. You do not. Why do they?
I’ve never met one of those people.
But if I did, I would try to sell them something for a lot more money than it’s worth.
But really ...
A “day” could not be 24 hours without an already created Earth and Sun for it to spin in front of. It was a succession of perfect “days” in the life of God, not imperfect days such as we are limited to. So such people are just stupid.
But other stupid people claiming the earth is 6,000 years old don’t really find it in the Bible. They are simply following some Protestant tradition that calculates the descendants of Abraham incorrectly, for the Bible explicitly states that Adam was created after the Earth was first created and all other life was created.
So the “story” they are believing is a religious Protestant one, not a biblical one.
And the first stories of the Bible are very ancient oral traditions, not written accounts, which came much later.
The New Testament stories, however, are seamlessly connected to us through the centuries since they were written.
To not know what the Church Fathers wrote in the first centuries about Jesus, and then to lump him in with a biblical character like Jonah, is just as bad as following some silly religious traditions that don’t make a whole lot of sense.
EN, your respect for today’s skeptics needs some fine tuning.
You aren’t on “Dancing with the Stars”, but you sure make a lot of moves. I’m not lumping Jonah in with anyone. I’m comparing two stories, that on their face are impossible - one from Greek mythology and one from the Bible. Many today scoff at the idea of a multi-headed monster but literally believe in a guy getting swallowed by a whale, staying there for three days, speaking poetic prayers while inside (presumably while the whale was diving deep into the sea), and being vomited out alive, to begin a new phase in his life. What distinguishes one from the other? Do you literally believe one, both, or neither?
I literally have never written a single sentence where I claim to “believe” in anything, especially not whether or not Jonah spent time in the belly of a whale.
Homer and ancient Biblical writers are on the same footing in many respects. But not all Biblical writers told stories. You have heard of the Wisdom Books, right? And the Prophets were not telling stories but in them.
And why are you having discussions with skeptics about Jonah rather than David or Joseph?
The Old Testament is filled with a rich history that is still alive today.
I don’t think Homer Simpson is based on the Ancient Greek.
Your choice of discussion topics is quite suspect.
And the story of Jonah is a story about God giving to a person a direct revelation of himself, and then giving that person a task to do that entails warning others about their behaviors and what will happen to them if they don’t change. Jonah refuses the task and gets punished for it, so ends up doing the task after all. This is how I remember the story. (I didn’t Google it.) And having learned the lesson long ago that Jonah was taught has most surely given to me an additional impetus to not hide the light of God’s personal revelation to me under a table.
Inspired scripture writing is for the spirit-filled persons who follow in the footsteps of God’s inspired writers, not for the pseudo-intellectuals who follow in the footsteps of the world’s superficial writers.
As long as you people keep asking only yourselves questions about God and his close children you will be outside the fold, a branch off the vine left to wither and die.
That’s why you’re all on one drug or another.
I have never written a single word on this forum when I was under the influence of some drug.
I’m willing to bet a lot that many of you have done the exact opposite, because some of you are never clear-headed.
And that’s just pathetic ... and disrespectful.
That post had more red herrings than a fish market. I can see that an actual honest conversation with you is impossible.
Sure. I didn’t give you anything to think about, so you had no choice but to give me back a skeptic’s undergraduate accusation of a logical fallacy.
I answered your question well enough, too well actually.
Your dishonesty is and has always been palpable.
You simply can’t dialogue with me at a level above your pedestrian intellect.
When you asked permission of skeptics on another thread to use the term “data points” in an explanation of stories told by storytellers, I saw your true self.
You are the biggest ass kisser on this forum, and are so because you want your ass kissed back.
My response to your “question” about my believing in stories wasn’t what you wanted to hear because it was my honest response not looking for anything from you or for anything to give to you.
You and everyone else here have one foot on your opinion and the other on each other’s feelings.
Stand up for yourself and you will respect the same from others.
If you were truly humble and honest you would also be asking my permission to talk about God.
There is a new thread all about fictional stories throughout history people are duped into believing, and I am brought up as an example from the outset.
And posters showed up to support each other with their fabricated opinions about ancient stories, completely excluding any thoughts that people simply told the truth about great things happening among them.
And there you go being a face in this stupid crowd, accusing me of being the pretender because I write about great things happening.
You simply can’t listen to anything but what supports your lifestyle.
You actually believe in what the world offers you, and you have conformed yourself accordingly.
No matter how many things you put into your mouth or on your body, you will never become a truly successful human being until you live for every opportunity to give of yourself. And the reason this is so is because we will live forever according to the person we have willfully and wisely and lovingly become.
Takers are not the great persons among us, neither today and now nor tomorrow and forever.
Your superficial label of “theistic” is pasted over your deepest realities that you will regret forever not coming to know and love, and then serve with your whole mind, heart, and soul.
Okay, now get dressed and go eat at some fancy restaurant like you’ve planned for today. I’ll take a guess and say you like eating at Benu, at about $500 per person, but unfortunately it’s closed today.
I like to keep it simple. Do good, be good, love yourself, be smart. The rest will hopefully figure itself out. Or it won’t, which brings me to my point: I think that we’d agree there’s something inherent about people in general where they’ll always want more. The slippery slope of made up stories is that they validate our longing for things we can’t figure out why we don’t have. Or whether we even want them in the first place.
As I experienced life, I couldn’t help coming to the realization over and over again how serious it is.
Having a 10 year old brother die when I was 16 shook me out of my teenage superficialities. Maybe some people never get so shaken.
Also, I have a clear memory of looking out of a 5th floor window in Boston Children’s Hospital as he lay dying, and debating with myself whether or not to jump out of it for the sole purpose of getting before the face of God and punching him square in it.
You see, although I have never been religious, nor anyone in my family, God has always been a part of my life, always, and I have dozens of experiences growing up where he was particularly present to me.
I can appreciate your simple philosophy of life, especially since I have a few very rich friends who have destroyed their lives by relying on easy money rather than hard-earned money. And the destructive power of greed traps a very high percentage of humanity.
As you know, what I can’t appreciate is your malicious attitude towards God.
You’re not a stupid guy, but your attitude towards God is like you being a bank robber who doesn’t understand that bank robbery carries a long prison sentence.
In a word, if what I’m telling you about God is true, then, good deeds here or there or not, you’re fucked.
Q: What images never appear on Christmas cards? Mathew 2:16-18
16. Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
17. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,
18. In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
IYO - Did Jesus’s parents tell him about this when he was old enough to understand? “Son, your birth caused hundreds of infants to be slaughtered.”
Was Herod the Grinch who stole Christmas by killing all the other babies and little kids in Bethlehem and beyond? Why didn’t God warn the other fathers about Herod’s intentions the way he warned Joseph? The other babies weren’t important? It makes a better story if only Joseph gets warned? The border patrol would have become suspicious if hundred of parents had started seeking asylum in Egypt? https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/188000/188011/188011-the-slaughter-of-the-innocents.htm
Mario, since you are a close associate of God, could you ask him why he let the distinguished foreigners from the East go and blab to Herod about the birth of Jesus? Did the magi really believe that the king of Judaea was going to go and kneel before the newborn and pay his respects? Also could you ask God why he gave Joseph instructions to flee to Egypt with his wife and child, but not the other parents whose infants were now in mortal danger? Wouldn’t it have been easier if God had just told the magi not to tell Herod why they brought gold and other presents for this baby? https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/188000/188011/188011-the-slaughter-of-the-innocents.htm
“If you were truly humble and honest you would also be asking my permission to talk about God.” - Brother Mario, December 16, post #2515
And another thing …
On the newly resurrected thread about near death and out of body experiences, my two friends, Bruce and John, are debating about how human thought may be zooming outward through space at the speed of light.
Bruce is questioning the possibility of human thought being recorded in light.
John is questioning the possibility of human beings being tethered to people and things physically proximate to us.
Both of these highly educated persons are seeking a purely material explanation for the obviously immaterial power of thought. Why? Because when a person worships the belief that modern thought has replaced traditional thought, such a person has allowed the hijacking of their thinking, leaving himself, no matter how educated he becomes, with an empty head.
Bruce and John have written many times, in one way or another, that God is simply a personal belief, a religious phenomenon without any connection to the physical universe that we can come to know as “knowledge”. And this is, of course, their own “personal belief”.
Their debate about human thought being attached to the physical universe outside of the brain is in direct correlation to their refusal to move past their own personal beliefs about God.
Human thought (actually all thought) is a divine power seated in a miraculous physical structure, the brain. We think because God thinks, not because our brains evolved into brains, because these “seats” for thought are not thought itself. Thought cannot float freely through space just as it cannot be created by a brain through a combination biological and chemical materials alone. Our brain is an evolution of these materials with the omnipotent power of God always present.
To look at human thought from a materialistic, bottom-up, perspective only is to remain ignorant of what human thought is. It is to take the seat of this power and equate it to the power.
God is only sometimes a personal belief and a religious phenomenon.
God is always a divine being, omnipotent and omniscient, the true power behind and the true author of all we see and experience … and, most of all, all we are.
So Bruce’s personal faith and John’s personal theistic problems are two opposite ends of a spectrum of ignorance that produces nothing truly intelligent.
Mentioning the speed of light in a conversation about our human thought is like mentioning the nearest star in a conversation about the love we have for our children.
As you know, what I can’t appreciate is your malicious attitude towards God.
You can’t have malice for something that you’re sure is made up. And here’s the thing, if I’m right, you’re wasting your time on a brainwasher’s credo that above all is 100% irrelevant when it comes to being a good person. Honest question: Have you ever entertained the idea - I mean recently - that you’re wrong? Or is doubt a sin?