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If free will does not exist, then consciousness has no reason to exist either

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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23 August 2018 19:07
 
GAD - 23 August 2018 06:27 PM
Alexmahone - 23 August 2018 06:05 PM

So, what is the point of consciousness if one has no free will?

To understand that you have none. Like the Cyclops’s in Krull, they had the power to see the future, but only their own deaths.

Ha ha, good answer!

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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24 August 2018 10:30
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 23 August 2018 07:07 PM
GAD - 23 August 2018 06:27 PM
Alexmahone - 23 August 2018 06:05 PM

So, what is the point of consciousness if one has no free will?

To understand that you have none. Like the Cyclops’s in Krull, they had the power to see the future, but only their own deaths.

Ha ha, good answer!

“Free will” is a horrible way of phrasing what is much more aptly interpreted as being the freedom to comply (or resist). “Free choice” is a better way of framing it, but the problem still remains that the only choice any of us ever really has is whether or not to resist the compulsion to go along with that which might otherwise occur. Even if we exercise highly disciplined control over our inhibitory faculties, we can only resist up to a point before biological imperatives override our conscious willpower.

I would venture a step further and posit that consciousness and willpower are the same thing. Each is nourished or diminished by our respective experiences, and the two are inextricably woven together. The meaning of life, as it were, is the midpoint at which we exist. The point is to live.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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24 August 2018 14:10
 
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 10:30 AM
Antisocialdarwinist - 23 August 2018 07:07 PM
GAD - 23 August 2018 06:27 PM
Alexmahone - 23 August 2018 06:05 PM

So, what is the point of consciousness if one has no free will?

To understand that you have none. Like the Cyclops’s in Krull, they had the power to see the future, but only their own deaths.

Ha ha, good answer!

“Free will” is a horrible way of phrasing what is much more aptly interpreted as being the freedom to comply (or resist). “Free choice” is a better way of framing it, but the problem still remains that the only choice any of us ever really has is whether or not to resist the compulsion to go along with that which might otherwise occur.

Otherwise known as Free Won’t.

ubique13 - 24 August 2018 10:30 AM

I would venture a step further and posit that consciousness and willpower are the same thing. Each is nourished or diminished by our respective experiences, and the two are inextricably woven together. The meaning of life, as it were, is the midpoint at which we exist. The point is to live.

No, because most of the time consciousness does not exercise “free won’t,” but merely rationalizes, after the fact, our subconscious impulses: the compulsions that otherwise occur.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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24 August 2018 14:21
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 24 August 2018 02:10 PM
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 10:30 AM

I would venture a step further and posit that consciousness and willpower are the same thing. Each is nourished or diminished by our respective experiences, and the two are inextricably woven together. The meaning of life, as it were, is the midpoint at which we exist. The point is to live.

No, because most of the time consciousness does not exercise “free won’t,” but merely rationalizes, after the fact, our subconscious impulses: the compulsions that otherwise occur.

I will readily admit that most people seem completely unmoored from any notion that they could posses inhibitory function, let alone exercise it. Nevertheless, what’s true for many is not true for all.

As an anecdotal example, one night about six years ago I chose to stop smoking cigarettes. I’ve been around other people smoking plenty of times since then, but I still haven’t touched a single cigarette since my decision. I never claimed that everyone possesses the will to do something like that, but I know that some do.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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24 August 2018 16:49
 
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 02:21 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 24 August 2018 02:10 PM
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 10:30 AM

I would venture a step further and posit that consciousness and willpower are the same thing. Each is nourished or diminished by our respective experiences, and the two are inextricably woven together. The meaning of life, as it were, is the midpoint at which we exist. The point is to live.

No, because most of the time consciousness does not exercise “free won’t,” but merely rationalizes, after the fact, our subconscious impulses: the compulsions that otherwise occur.

I will readily admit that most people seem completely unmoored from any notion that they could posses inhibitory function, let alone exercise it. Nevertheless, what’s true for many is not true for all.

As an anecdotal example, one night about six years ago I chose to stop smoking cigarettes. I’ve been around other people smoking plenty of times since then, but I still haven’t touched a single cigarette since my decision. I never claimed that everyone possesses the will to do something like that, but I know that some do.

My point is that consciousness and willpower/inhibitory function are not the same thing, as you claim. In addition to overriding our subconscious compulsions—exercising willpower—consciousness also rationalizes them.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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24 August 2018 17:12
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 24 August 2018 04:49 PM
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 02:21 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 24 August 2018 02:10 PM
ubique13 - 24 August 2018 10:30 AM

I would venture a step further and posit that consciousness and willpower are the same thing. Each is nourished or diminished by our respective experiences, and the two are inextricably woven together. The meaning of life, as it were, is the midpoint at which we exist. The point is to live.

No, because most of the time consciousness does not exercise “free won’t,” but merely rationalizes, after the fact, our subconscious impulses: the compulsions that otherwise occur.

I will readily admit that most people seem completely unmoored from any notion that they could posses inhibitory function, let alone exercise it. Nevertheless, what’s true for many is not true for all.

As an anecdotal example, one night about six years ago I chose to stop smoking cigarettes. I’ve been around other people smoking plenty of times since then, but I still haven’t touched a single cigarette since my decision. I never claimed that everyone possesses the will to do something like that, but I know that some do.

My point is that consciousness and willpower/inhibitory function are not the same thing, as you claim. In addition to overriding our subconscious compulsions—exercising willpower—consciousness also rationalizes them.

If I am conscious of a patterned, habitual behavior that I wish to change in myself, and then I make the conscious decision to alter the aforementioned behavioral pattern, then I have the ability to freely exert my preference. And this free exertion is of a willful nature. It is what I chose, insofar as any choice exists at all.

Phenomonology has made a fucking mess of things.

 
 
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