phasing out Patreon

 
dagome
 
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dagome
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25 July 2017 15:16
 

Do we know why Sam is leaving Patreon yet ?
I really like patreon as a supporter, (everything worth supporting in one place, one bill a month).
I wonder what made Sam leave it, He must know that not everyone will go thru “the hassle” of setting up a new account on his website.
Heck, it took me a few days of “gathering the energy” to do the switch. (I do not think there is anyone else, other than Sam, i would bother doing this for)

So back to the original question, Did Sam explain his reasons yet ? (in any medium)

thanks

EDIT: i listend to his podcast on my way home tonight and yes indeed he explains the reason, i was guessing money, but his reason is (of course) much more morally superior smile

[ Edited: 25 July 2017 17:46 by dagome]
 
Probus
 
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Probus
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25 July 2017 16:26
 
dagome - 25 July 2017 03:16 PM

Do we know why Sam is leaving Patreon yet ?
I really like patreon as a supporter, (everything worth supporting in one place, one bill a month).
I wonder what made Sam leave it, He must know that not everyone will go thru “the hassle” of setting up a new account on his website.
Heck, it took me a few days of “gathering the energy” to do the switch. (I do not think there is anyone else, other than Sam, i would bother doing this for)

So back to the original question, Did Sam explain his reasons yet ? (in any medium)

thanks

Yes. In the beginning of his latest podcast he explains why. Basically, he feels that patreon does not offer enough protection from external coercion. He mentioned that pathreon has shut down accounts of people who are considered controversial, and that he don’t want to take the chance of his podcast being influenced by such coercion. If you are a patreon supporter, you should have received an e-mail.

[ Edited: 26 July 2017 04:56 by Probus]
 
Ned Jeffery
 
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Ned Jeffery
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25 July 2017 17:40
 

I was previously not a Patreon supporter. But I just wanted to point that I am now a monthly supporter because of this decision. Like Sam, I have no particular animosity towards Patreon personally. But I believe there is great value in having independent support. There is a risk services like Patreon, or ever PayPal for that matter, are creating choke points that allow for an unreasonable amount of leverage to be applied.

 
Onespecies
 
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Onespecies
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31 December 2018 14:34
 

I think there are aspects Sam is leaving out of the equation.

https://youtu.be/vYfZ_KwErlY

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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05 January 2019 09:57
 
Onespecies - 31 December 2018 02:34 PM

I think there are aspects Sam is leaving out of the equation.

https://youtu.be/vYfZ_KwErlY


Leaving out?

Note:
I’m thinking of OneSpecies as a school of thought or an organization here, so I’m addressing it as such rather than as the individual poster.

I agree that the OneSpecies argument has plenty of merit—it’s all well and good in theory/ideology to buy free speech wholesale, but the AltRight and the overwhelming dark side of human nature unleashed en masse by the Interweb have proven to be the actual result. Human brain owners are terrible at self-regulation and accurate self-awareness and the kinds of measures that are absolutely necessary to be a truly responsible owner and user, or to even be a communally/socially functional owner and user.

The problem with the OneSpecies argument is that it essentially says its own position on where the line is to be drawn, which isn’t actually presented, has to be right because if it’s drawn somewhere else the problem children win. It uses citations and explanations of problem child behavior to make its point, the problematic nature of which aren’t in dispute, rather than arguments supporting why the line needs to be drawn where OneSpecies thinks it should be drawn. It also stresses the point that the problem children will take advantage of any platform no matter where that platform draws the line—it doesn’t matter where the line is drawn, so we need to draw the line pretty high? If the OneSpecies argument is right then I think the OneSpecies conclusion (as I perceive it from the video) is wrong—the only way to shut down the dark side of human nature on the Interweb is to shut down the Interweb. The real concern I have is that the OneSpecies argument may be absolutely right.

My further concern is that the only thing that’s been keeping the dark side of human nature increasingly under wraps through history has been the revulsion of social convention in response to the dark side (Dark Sided types tend to have fragile egos in need a great deal of affirmation, which is a major aspect of what draws them together), and that as the dark side infects more and more through the polarization of exposure to the extreme Other, even that live/in person social regulatory mechanism is going to break down. Not sure what happens then, but I expect it’s not a world in which we cooperative, civilized types want to live. Ultimately I think that’s the basic idea that motivates both sides on this one (both sides being OneSpecies and Sam Harris, et al, not the decent and civilized vs. the Deplorables who revel and wallow in the dark side of human nature).

Ultimately liberal society is absolutely at odds with intense intellectual cowardice—i.e. the dark side of human nature as manifest in the Interweb. If the social convention were to properly recognize the Interweb dark side as cowardice that might significantly restore the power of its regulating force (we’re all afraid of being considered cowards, sort of ironically, but far more so the dark sided problem children, with their fragile egos). Unfortunately that seems a pretty tall order—or maybe it could be as simple as being presented to a big enough audience by the right personality/personalities so it catches on ... ?

[ Edited: 05 January 2019 10:10 by SkepticX]
 
 
Onespecies
 
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Onespecies
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17 January 2019 01:47
 

Wow, lengthy and rich feedback, Thanks. I did not conclude with fixed suggestions for solutions because this problem is probably to complicated to be solved by one person’s skills or abilities. I was mostly trying to raise awareness in what I perceive as a slightly too naive conversation around platforms and free expression. I wanted to highlight the part of the problem people don’t seem to highlight enough.

My personal take is that a general lack of decency is manifesting in many places, and is the main reason behind multiple problems. The internet only reflects the social depravity of the offline world. That will follow social trends overall. Nevertheless the behavior of certain groups and people are obstructing online discourse (which is becoming more influential than offline discourse over time), and we should be looking into that and solving it.

I am not pretending to have the all the answers and solutions, but I did highlight what we are facing, in the hope of more people thinking and talking about it.