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What is Religion?

 
Shaikh Raisuddin
 
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Shaikh Raisuddin
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23 August 2017 08:44
 

Can anyone give a near precise definition of religion which can represent all types of religion primitive to present, from theist to atheist (Buddhism)?

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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23 August 2017 09:05
 

Bullshit.

* Atheism is not religion. Not believing that make-believe things are real is called reality, which is the opposite of religion.

 
 
no_profundia
 
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no_profundia
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23 August 2017 19:48
 

It is probably impossible to provide a definition of religion that will include everything we would want to include and exclude everything we would want to exclude because our language is often based on “family resemblances” rather than essences.

However, here are two definitions by two anthropologists:

“A religion is a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing those conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic.” - Clifford Geertz

“Roughly, religion is (1) a community’s costly and hard-to-fake commitment (2) to a counterfactual and counterintuitive world of supernatural agents (3) who master people’s existential anxieties, such as death and deception.” - Scott Atran

 
 
Shaikh Raisuddin
 
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Shaikh Raisuddin
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24 August 2017 00:03
 

@ GAD,
Buddhism is a religion which does not believe in God. Is not a atheist religion? Only insanes do not have any religion.

Are the words of any dictionary scientifically verified to mean to what they ought to mean?

@no_profunda,

Religion is a “set of beliefs”.

The set includes beliefs about of code of conscience, conduct and causality. That is a, set of beliefs aimed to regulate, thinking, behavior and worldview.

And what is a belief?

A belief is cause of an action mental or physical.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 00:14
 
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 12:03 AM

@ GAD,
Buddhism is a religion which does not believe in God. Is not a atheist religion? Only insanes do not have any religion.

Are the words of any dictionary scientifically verified to mean to what they ought to mean?

Buddhism is bullshit. Atheism is not religion. We give words meanings, not dictionaries.

 
 
Shaikh Raisuddin
 
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Shaikh Raisuddin
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24 August 2017 08:09
 

@GAD,

Atheism is indeed a religion. It is a “state religion” in disguise.

Law of the land is religion.

Morality is religion. (Morality in national laws, in fact, has been borrowed from theological religions)

All that is educated without self-experience is religion =set of beliefs.

Education is Religion.

When we give wrong meanings to words then we “misinterpret”.

Dictionary is misery of mankind. It promotes ambiguity of meaning and conflict.

Religion is BRAIN OPERATING SYSTEM.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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24 August 2017 08:11
 

Your definition of religion seems too broad to fit in any dictionary.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 08:17
 
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 08:09 AM

@GAD,

Atheism is indeed a religion. It is a “state religion” in disguise.

Law of the land is religion.

Morality is religion. (Morality in national laws, in fact, has been borrowed from theological religions)

All that is educated without self-experience is religion =set of beliefs.

Education is Religion.

When we give wrong meanings to words then we “misinterpret”.

Dictionary is misery of mankind. It promotes ambiguity of meaning and conflict.

Religion is BRAIN OPERATING SYSTEM.

No Atheism is not religion. Not believing that make-believe things are real is called reality, not religion.

Do you have a point or are you just talking bullshit?

 
 
Shaikh Raisuddin
 
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Shaikh Raisuddin
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24 August 2017 08:29
 

You define what is atheism. Is it just not believing in God?

And please define what belief is?

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 08:31
 
Nhoj Morley - 24 August 2017 08:11 AM

Your definition of religion seems too broad to fit in any dictionary.

Indeed.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 08:34
 
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 08:29 AM

You define what is atheism. Is it just not believing in God?

And please define what belief is?

Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real.

 

 
 
Zardoz Speakz
 
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Zardoz Speakz
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24 August 2017 13:04
 
GAD - 24 August 2017 08:34 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 08:29 AM

You define what is atheism. Is it just not believing in God?

And please define what belief is?

Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real.

 

I don’t define it thus.  While it can be, atheism simply means without theism.  It is a non belief in God, but does not need to make the claim that God does not exist.  That’s why you have hard atheists, soft atheists, agnostic atheists.  I am an atheist, and while I don’t think that there is a God, I don’t deny the possibility.  Most would label me an agnostic, but I tend to prefer the term atheist since agnosticism can imply that we cannot know and can never know if God exists. 

One doesn’t have to believe in God, or Gods, to be religious, but it in common parlance it does have a “supernatural” element—something beyond the material world.  Of course it also has to do with rites and has systems of worship.  Many Buddhists believe in reincarnation and follow religious rites, such as how they treat the dead…  Religion can also be used more readily for more belief systems that don’t involve anything supernatural, but then that is a very broad interpretation (Capitalists worship Mammon haha).

I don’t think Buddhism is BS, certain aspects maybe, and it really does depend upon which variance you follow.  I don’t consider myself to be religious, although I try to practice mindfulness religiously, so to speak.  I think that Buddhist methods of mediation and philosophy can be useful from a psychological standpoint, and in my rather limited knowledge of i and experience of various religions, it’s the best “religion” for understanding our thought processes, but you don’t need to be religious to practice aspects of it.  Sorry Scientologists, now that’s a BS religion.

EDIT: I actually misread your quote “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” as “Atheism is knowing that gods are not real.”  and of course there is a difference between both statements.  I would say that theists would also claim they they know that make-believe gods are not real”, but for the atheists we will likely see the God they believe in as also made-up.  Most anyone who believes in reality over fiction would say that they don’t believe in made-up gods.  For a Christian, for instance,., they would say “I believe in the one true God, but I don’t believe in the made-up false gods such as Zeus.”  For the atheist they would not need to specify that they know that make-believe gods are not real, they would say that they don’t believe in any Gods, and for the hard atheist that all gods are surely made-up.  Even those atheists who accept that there conceivably could be a god no matter how unlikely or unnecessary, for instance if they only believe in the god of nature as in the metaphysics of Spinoza, would claim that theistic (a personal type God) is largely made-up by man—“And man created God in his own image.”  The attributes are made-up, even if there is some supernatural power, but then if there is a God of nature, it ceases to really be supernatural.  I feel like calling a rock god. There, I defined god into existence.  God is hard, flat, and skips on water when thrown correctly.

Anyway, silly edit, but I had slightly misread you and I think you might have been trying to say something more nuanced than I first took it to be with adding “the made-up” bit, which might seems redundant at first to some.

Shaikh, what do mean by “Only insanes do not have any religion”?  I’d be interested to see if there any clinical psychological studies to back that up.

[ Edited: 24 August 2017 13:31 by Zardoz Speakz]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 17:31
 
Greg M - 24 August 2017 01:04 PM
GAD - 24 August 2017 08:34 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 08:29 AM

You define what is atheism. Is it just not believing in God?

And please define what belief is?

Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real.

 

I don’t define it thus.  While it can be, atheism simply means without theism.  It is a non belief in God, but does not need to make the claim that God does not exist.  That’s why you have hard atheists, soft atheists, agnostic atheists.  I am an atheist, and while I don’t think that there is a God, I don’t deny the possibility.  Most would label me an agnostic, but I tend to prefer the term atheist since agnosticism can imply that we cannot know and can never know if God exists. 

One doesn’t have to believe in God, or Gods, to be religious, but it in common parlance it does have a “supernatural” element—something beyond the material world.  Of course it also has to do with rites and has systems of worship.  Many Buddhists believe in reincarnation and follow religious rites, such as how they treat the dead…  Religion can also be used more readily for more belief systems that don’t involve anything supernatural, but then that is a very broad interpretation (Capitalists worship Mammon haha).

I don’t think Buddhism is BS, certain aspects maybe, and it really does depend upon which variance you follow.  I don’t consider myself to be religious, although I try to practice mindfulness religiously, so to speak.  I think that Buddhist methods of mediation and philosophy can be useful from a psychological standpoint, and in my rather limited knowledge of i and experience of various religions, it’s the best “religion” for understanding our thought processes, but you don’t need to be religious to practice aspects of it.  Sorry Scientologists, now that’s a BS religion.

EDIT: I actually misread your quote “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” as “Atheism is knowing that gods are not real.”  and of course there is a difference between both statements.  I would say that theists would also claim they they know that make-believe gods are not real”, but for the atheists we will likely see the God they believe in as also made-up.  Most anyone who believes in reality over fiction would say that they don’t believe in made-up gods.  For a Christian, for instance,., they would say “I believe in the one true God, but I don’t believe in the made-up false gods such as Zeus.”  For the atheist they would not need to specify that they know that make-believe gods are not real, they would say that they don’t believe in any Gods, and for the hard atheist that all gods are surely made-up.  Even those atheists who accept that there conceivably could be a god no matter how unlikely or unnecessary, for instance if they only believe in the god of nature as in the metaphysics of Spinoza, would claim that theistic (a personal type God) is largely made-up by man—“And man created God in his own image.”  The attributes are made-up, even if there is some supernatural power, but then if there is a God of nature, it ceases to really be supernatural.  I feel like calling a rock god. There, I defined god into existence.  God is hard, flat, and skips on water when thrown correctly.

Anyway, silly edit, but I had slightly misread you and I think you might have been trying to say something more nuanced than I first took it to be with adding “the made-up” bit, which might seems redundant at first to some.

Shaikh, what do mean by “Only insanes do not have any religion”?  I’d be interested to see if there any clinical psychological studies to back that up.

Can you show me a human god that isn’t made-believe i.e. a human invention? 

 

 
 
Zardoz Speakz
 
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Zardoz Speakz
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24 August 2017 20:58
 
GAD - 24 August 2017 05:31 PM
Greg M - 24 August 2017 01:04 PM
GAD - 24 August 2017 08:34 AM
Shaikh Raisuddin - 24 August 2017 08:29 AM

You define what is atheism. Is it just not believing in God?

And please define what belief is?

Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real.

 

I don’t define it thus.  While it can be, atheism simply means without theism.  It is a non belief in God, but does not need to make the claim that God does not exist.  That’s why you have hard atheists, soft atheists, agnostic atheists.  I am an atheist, and while I don’t think that there is a God, I don’t deny the possibility.  Most would label me an agnostic, but I tend to prefer the term atheist since agnosticism can imply that we cannot know and can never know if God exists. 

One doesn’t have to believe in God, or Gods, to be religious, but it in common parlance it does have a “supernatural” element—something beyond the material world.  Of course it also has to do with rites and has systems of worship.  Many Buddhists believe in reincarnation and follow religious rites, such as how they treat the dead…  Religion can also be used more readily for more belief systems that don’t involve anything supernatural, but then that is a very broad interpretation (Capitalists worship Mammon haha).

I don’t think Buddhism is BS, certain aspects maybe, and it really does depend upon which variance you follow.  I don’t consider myself to be religious, although I try to practice mindfulness religiously, so to speak.  I think that Buddhist methods of mediation and philosophy can be useful from a psychological standpoint, and in my rather limited knowledge of i and experience of various religions, it’s the best “religion” for understanding our thought processes, but you don’t need to be religious to practice aspects of it.  Sorry Scientologists, now that’s a BS religion.

EDIT: I actually misread your quote “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” as “Atheism is knowing that gods are not real.”  and of course there is a difference between both statements.  I would say that theists would also claim they they know that make-believe gods are not real”, but for the atheists we will likely see the God they believe in as also made-up.  Most anyone who believes in reality over fiction would say that they don’t believe in made-up gods.  For a Christian, for instance,., they would say “I believe in the one true God, but I don’t believe in the made-up false gods such as Zeus.”  For the atheist they would not need to specify that they know that make-believe gods are not real, they would say that they don’t believe in any Gods, and for the hard atheist that all gods are surely made-up.  Even those atheists who accept that there conceivably could be a god no matter how unlikely or unnecessary, for instance if they only believe in the god of nature as in the metaphysics of Spinoza, would claim that theistic (a personal type God) is largely made-up by man—“And man created God in his own image.”  The attributes are made-up, even if there is some supernatural power, but then if there is a God of nature, it ceases to really be supernatural.  I feel like calling a rock god. There, I defined god into existence.  God is hard, flat, and skips on water when thrown correctly.

Anyway, silly edit, but I had slightly misread you and I think you might have been trying to say something more nuanced than I first took it to be with adding “the made-up” bit, which might seems redundant at first to some.

Shaikh, what do mean by “Only insanes do not have any religion”?  I’d be interested to see if there any clinical psychological studies to back that up.

Can you show me a human god that isn’t made-believe i.e. a human invention? 

 

No, alhough I’d like to humorously say that if you took sufficient quantities of the right hallucinogens then you might see one, but of course it would still be an invention of your drug-riddled mind.

I don’t believe in human gods that are fictitious, nor non-human gods that are not human inventions, nor human or non-human gods that are factual.

I found it curious that you needed to specify that “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” rather than simply saying “....knowing that gods are not real.” Specifying only fictitious ones seemed rather redundant, but It can depend upon how one defines a god.  To some I might seem a god of solitaire, if I ever played it in public, which I don’t,  but that doesn’t truly make me a god, merely awesome.  Hey, perception and definition.  I am a human-made God still, well I don’t believe it, but some insane person might, but if I were deemed a god, it would be an inventive designation. I’ve yet to meet an atheist who said something like “I believe that the non-make-believe gods are real, but the make-believe ones are totally bogus, dude” On the other hand, a theist might well think “I believe in the true God, but not the huge number of make-believe Gods that other people throughout history have believed in.”  I thought you might be going for some sarcastic humour there, but I haven’t been around long enough to get a feel for the humour of this forum.

[ Edited: 24 August 2017 21:04 by Zardoz Speakz]
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2017 22:57
 
Greg M - 24 August 2017 08:58 PM
GAD - 24 August 2017 05:31 PM

Can you show me a human god that isn’t made-believe i.e. a human invention? 

 

No, alhough I’d like to humorously say that if you took sufficient quantities of the right hallucinogens then you might see one, but of course it would still be an invention of your drug-riddled mind.

I don’t believe in human gods that are fictitious, nor non-human gods that are not human inventions, nor human or non-human gods that are factual.

I found it curious that you needed to specify that “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” rather than simply saying “....knowing that gods are not real.” Specifying only fictitious ones seemed rather redundant, but It can depend upon how one defines a god.  To some I might seem a god of solitaire, if I ever played it in public, which I don’t,  but that doesn’t truly make me a god, merely awesome.  Hey, perception and definition.  I am a human-made God still, well I don’t believe it, but some insane person might, but if I were deemed a god, it would be an inventive designation. I’ve yet to meet an atheist who said something like “I believe that the non-make-believe gods are real, but the make-believe ones are totally bogus, dude” On the other hand, a theist might well think “I believe in the true God, but not the huge number of make-believe Gods that other people throughout history have believed in.”  I thought you might be going for some sarcastic humour there, but I haven’t been around long enough to get a feel for the humour of this forum.

Seems rather pedantic… OK, can you show me a non-make-believe god? Anyways it’s a line of reasoning and matter of necessity when dealing with people who make special exceptions for gods. If I say I know there are no gods I get the you can’t know/prove there are no gods and/or the conceptional gods shticks.

like for example

I am an atheist, and while I don’t think that there is a God, I don’t deny the possibility.  Most would label me an agnostic, but I tend to prefer the term atheist since agnosticism can imply that we cannot know and can never know if God exists.

 

 

 
 
Zardoz Speakz
 
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Zardoz Speakz
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25 August 2017 00:14
 
GAD - 24 August 2017 10:57 PM
Greg M - 24 August 2017 08:58 PM
GAD - 24 August 2017 05:31 PM

Can you show me a human god that isn’t made-believe i.e. a human invention? 

 

No, although I’d like to humorously say that if you took sufficient quantities of the right hallucinogens then you might see one, but of course it would still be an invention of your drug-riddled mind.

I don’t believe in human gods that are fictitious, nor non-human gods that are not human inventions, nor human or non-human gods that are factual.

I found it curious that you needed to specify that “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” rather than simply saying “....knowing that gods are not real.” Specifying only fictitious ones seemed rather redundant, but It can depend upon how one defines a god.  To some I might seem a god of solitaire, if I ever played it in public, which I don’t,  but that doesn’t truly make me a god, merely awesome.  Hey, perception and definition.  I am a human-made God still, well I don’t believe it, but some insane person might, but if I were deemed a god, it would be an inventive designation. I’ve yet to meet an atheist who said something like “I believe that the non-make-believe gods are real, but the make-believe ones are totally bogus, dude” On the other hand, a theist might well think “I believe in the true God, but not the huge number of make-believe Gods that other people throughout history have believed in.”  I thought you might be going for some sarcastic humour there, but I haven’t been around long enough to get a feel for the humour of this forum.

Seems rather pedantic… OK, can you show me a non-make-believe god? Anyways it’s a line of reasoning and matter of necessity when dealing with people who make special exceptions for gods. If I say I know there are no gods I get the you can’t know/prove there are no gods and/or the conceptional gods shticks.

like for example

I am an atheist, and while I don’t think that there is a God, I don’t deny the possibility.  Most would label me an agnostic, but I tend to prefer the term atheist since agnosticism can imply that we cannot know and can never know if God exists.

 

The pedants are revolting, sorry if I came across as pedantic. I was genuinely curious about your reasoning, and it got me thinking a bit.  I tend to use other people’s thoughts as springboards for my own (as is commonplace in discussion) which may come across as arrogant, argumentative or at least unfriendly when it’s not intended to be.  When one is new one should try extra hard to be charitable in discussion, methinks.  And no, of course I cannot show you you a non-make-believe god either, but then I wouldn’t try to even if it was somehow possible as I don’t believe in gods. Perhaps some individual might attribute almost godlike qualities to Sam Harris, God of the Podcast, but I wouldn’t expect that of any people at this forum despite any respect for the man and enjoyment in his works one might have.  Anyway, I get the line of reasoning, thanks for taking the time to explain.

I actually saw sense in saying “Atheism is knowing that make-believe gods are not real” rather than the more commonly put “Atheism is knowing that gods are not real.” The second statement is not necessarily true of an atheist as an atheist need not know that gods are not real (for instance with a soft atheist), but merely doesn’t believe in gods (no truth claim), but I can say that most every atheist would be comfortable claiming with certainty that made-up gods are not real (I could think of some weird hypothetical people who would consider themselves atheist and not believe that with certainty either, but you won’t find many who believe that reality is a fiction, and “that all that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream”—Poe, or some such thing).

Damn, I honestly had something that felt like deep insight, probably an illusion, but my daughter interrupted me and I forgot what I was going to say.  Anyway, I also get the distinction that we can define things into existence and use the term god to mean something that is not supernatural and could be described more prosaically, but it’s not a very useful exercise.

And apologies to the topic-starter if this seems like hijacking your discussion to any extent.

 

 
 
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