The rise of the far right

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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28 August 2017 15:16
 

I was hoping to be wrong about a prediction in this old post, and I’m not patting myself on the back, but I never thought the USA would actually go so far as have Nazi and White Supremacist rallies, much less elect a sympathizer as president - https://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/60629/#729787

Skipshot - 19 November 2012 06:21 PM

The Teabagger sentiment is not new but it’s elevation to mainstream politics is, as the John Birch Society, long recognized as the crackpot fringe of right wing politics, has been given the wheel by the GOP under the pseudonym of the Tea Party.  We could see this slowly coming when the GOP strategy after a loss is to go further to the right, but how much room is there left for them to go and still be taken seriously?  That rant from my dad shows they have plenty of room to go but they are getting closer and closer to the KKK and White Supremacists, and I’m not sure they will be able to drag religion that far, but if they do then the Westboro Baptist Church is waiting to show them the way.

This is going to be a long four years.

edit: formatting

[ Edited: 02 September 2017 07:43 by Skipshot]
 
Sir Drinks-a-Lot
 
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Sir Drinks-a-Lot
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28 August 2017 15:49
 

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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28 August 2017 16:14
 
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 28 August 2017 03:49 PM

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.

There isn’t really a left-wing set of facts or a right-wing set of facts, there are only facts.

Stop watching FOX.

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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28 August 2017 16:27
 
jdrnd - 28 August 2017 04:14 PM
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 28 August 2017 03:49 PM

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.

There isn’t really a left-wing set of facts or a right-wing set of facts, there are only facts.

Stop watching FOX.

Indeed.

 
 
Celal
 
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Celal
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28 August 2017 18:21
 
jdrnd - 28 August 2017 04:14 PM
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 28 August 2017 03:49 PM

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.

There isn’t really a left-wing set of facts or a right-wing set of facts, there are only facts.

Stop watching FOX.

Yet you are posting in a thread “The rise of the far right”.  I think you make it up as you go.

 
jdrnd
 
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28 August 2017 18:52
 
Celal - 28 August 2017 06:21 PM
jdrnd - 28 August 2017 04:14 PM
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 28 August 2017 03:49 PM

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.

There isn’t really a left-wing set of facts or a right-wing set of facts, there are only facts.

Stop watching FOX.

Yet you are posting in a thread “The rise of the far right”.  I think you make it up as you go.

I do.
I’m spontaneous.

 
EN
 
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EN
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29 August 2017 05:50
 

I do not equate the KKK, Alt-Right, Nazis with the anti-fascist crowd as far as the content of their speech/message.  The extreme right is wrong.  That being said, what I see in Berkeley is also disturbing. Peaceful protests are everyone’s right.  Violence and provocation are not.  Everyone needs to chill.

My only protest/march in the Trump administration was totally peaceful.  Of course, on the Texas border almost no one wants the Wall anyway, so there wasn’t much opposition.  But the character of the protesters (most of them were probably left, with a smattering of centrists such as myself) was such that violence was probably not in the cards to begin with. 

 
bigredfutbol
 
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29 August 2017 05:57
 
EN - 29 August 2017 05:50 AM

I do not equate the KKK, Alt-Right, Nazis with the anti-fascist crowd as far as the content of their speech/message.  The extreme right is wrong.  That being said, what I see in Berkeley is also disturbing. Peaceful protests are everyone’s right.  Violence and provocation are not.  Everyone needs to chill.

Co-sign.

The antifa are poor allies. The broad majority of anti-Trumpers span the ideological spectrum (excluding the far Right), including a minority of conservatives. We cannot allow a small clique of extremist self-appointed vanguards to co-opt the resistance.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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29 August 2017 06:09
 
bigredfutbol - 29 August 2017 05:57 AM
EN - 29 August 2017 05:50 AM

I do not equate the KKK, Alt-Right, Nazis with the anti-fascist crowd as far as the content of their speech/message.  The extreme right is wrong.  That being said, what I see in Berkeley is also disturbing. Peaceful protests are everyone’s right.  Violence and provocation are not.  Everyone needs to chill.

Co-sign.

The antifa are poor allies. The broad majority of anti-Trumpers span the ideological spectrum (excluding the far Right), including a minority of conservatives. We cannot allow a small clique of extremist self-appointed vanguards to co-opt the resistance.

Double co-sign

 
SkepticX
 
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29 August 2017 06:50
 
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 28 August 2017 03:49 PM

I’d be more worried about the far left if I were you.


No, you wouldn’t. If you were Skipshot you wouldn’t be invested in believing the far left is more dangerous than the far right. That might be because as Skipshot you’d understand the sociology and psychology better than you do, but he’ll have to verify that. In any case the key is that as Skipshot you wouldn’t have the same misplaced investment you do as you, so no, if you were him you wouldn’t have this misplaced perception either.

... assuming of course I’m reading your basic point correctly.

 
 
Sir Drinks-a-Lot
 
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01 September 2017 17:04
 
jdrnd - 28 August 2017 04:14 PM

There isn’t really a left-wing set of facts or a right-wing set of facts, there are only facts.

I know, and they don’t favor the hysteria posted in this thread so far.

1) There have been white supremacist and KK rallies for years.
2) Leftist mobs are sweeping the country attacking peaceful citizens that they think might, maybe be sort of racists, or sort of disagree with them, or something.
3) The President has denounced David Duke and the KKK

 

 

 
 
Skipshot
 
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01 September 2017 23:47
 
Sir Drinks-a-Lot - 01 September 2017 05:04 PM

1) There have been white supremacist and KK rallies for years.

And when is the next one?  I’d like to see the KKK hold a rally in Chicago’s violent black neighborhoods.  Show those uppity negroes who is boss.

 
tgwaty
 
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tgwaty
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02 September 2017 03:34
 

There have ALWAYS been nazis and kkk in America.  They were just ignored by everyone else.  If in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, the establishment started taking down Confederate monuments, there would have been the same response back then as we had in Charlottesville.

The reason it seems they have “risen” is because they are in the news. And the reason they are in the news is because of the response to them, especially the counter-protests.  It used to be that the nazis or kkk would have a march or protest, there would be a little local controversy about free speech, they’d get permission, do their thing, maybe it was in the local news but nobody else heard about it.

 
Hitchens Immortal
 
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Hitchens Immortal
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02 September 2017 05:37
 

At the end of WW1, there were 5 million KKK members in this country, roughly 5% of the population at the time.

There are currently 5000 members in the US, or .01% of the above number.

What is the difference? Internet.

20 years ago, Alex Jones would have been selling pencils out of a fucking cup. But, internet. So instead he has a multi-million dollar ‘media’ network that reaches hundreds of thousands of ears every day. Sargon of Akkad, Mark Dice, Steven Crowder. There’s 1000 channels just like these on YT and they all have a substantial subscriber base.

So let me be the first to welcome you all to the decade-long age of information warfare that apparently most folks have no concept of. All you have to do now is be louder than the established facts and eventually your fake facts are believed by enough people to become the fact facts. There is no ‘rise’ of the right wing. Their numbers are clearly still going down as every single state can provide evidence in being gerrymandered into comical, slithering districts just to keep MODERATE Republicans in power. All that’s changed is in the last few years in THIS country, they’ve gotten more media savvy and have taken all they’ve learned in the years leading up to that from the Russian playbook (they’ve been at this very thing since the late 90s).

There WILL be a rise of the right wing, however, if the disaffected youths that get roped into that micro media don’t eventually grow up (man, rebelling back in my day meant listening to death metal and wearing a leather jacket. Simpler times).

I’ve always wondered what kind of person I’d have grown up to be if I was a teenager in the early ‘60s. It’s really easy to say ‘black people should have equal protection under the law’ if you were born in 1979, but not so much if you were born in 1945. In times of strife, one of the most targeted groups by reactionaries is the young. So what is a kid who’s 16 now and completely buys into the tainted brand of skepticism that leads to 9/11 trutherism and Pizzagate going to be when they’re a voting adult in a system that already heavily favors the right wing?

 
 
Kalessin
 
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02 September 2017 10:03
 
Hitchens Immortal - 02 September 2017 05:37 AM

I’ve always wondered what kind of person I’d have grown up to be if I was a teenager in the early ‘60s. It’s really easy to say ‘black people should have equal protection under the law’ if you were born in 1979, but not so much if you were born in 1945. In times of strife, one of the most targeted groups by reactionaries is the young. So what is a kid who’s 16 now and completely buys into the tainted brand of skepticism that leads to 9/11 trutherism and Pizzagate going to be when they’re a voting adult in a system that already heavily favors the right wing?

Optimistically, I’m not sure those correlations apply that neatly when you apply them to the past.  The 1960’s were in fact a period of significant counter-culture and a level of free-thinking that ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous, much of which (on both counts) still ripples significantly through today’s world.  No rose-tinted glasses of course, there was plenty not to like.  But a better analog to today’s febrile antagonisms might be the 1950’s, with McCarthyism in the US,  the Hungarian revolution (which was actually hugely influential in breaking the myth of a benevolent and egalitarian communist Soviet Union), oppressively conformist social mores that would probably seem pretty “right-wing” to most people ...  although if you look at the cultural contributions from that period you still see the impact of critical thinking and risk-taking.

I think it’s possible to slice the cake either way depending on your mood, but I’m wary of assumptions.  The “masses” - the people who clearly aren’t as intelligent as us, or who are mindlessly following whatever they are told to believe unlike us, of course, are not always as predictable or malleable as everyone likes to think.  otherwise we never would have got here.

If you had grown up in the 1960’s you might easily have been in this group - from the Washington Post piece on the March on Washington -
“As black marchers descended on the District in the early morning hours of Aug. 28, they were met by busloads, planeloads and railroad-car-loads of whites. Among them were working-class auto machinists and other union members, young university intellectuals, elderly leftists, the Hollywood elite, socially conscious Catholics, Jews and Protestants, and the stray, curious government worker who wandered onto the Mall to check out the scene. “

Or maybe today I’m just feeling less pessimistic smile.  I can easily go all Hobbes-ian with just a few button presses.
Kalessin