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If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
Total Posts:  5219
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08 October 2017 08:27
 
Greatest I am - 08 October 2017 07:25 AM
Brick Bungalow - 07 October 2017 07:19 PM
Greatest I am - 07 October 2017 08:57 AM
jdrnd - 07 October 2017 07:45 AM
Greatest I am - 06 October 2017 05:07 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2017 04:30 PM

Sometimes I struggle to know whether your questions are serious.

Answer it and find out.

Regards
DL

Brick, myself and others are always suspicious when someone asks a question without also expressing their opinion of what they think the answer is.

I and others here do not want to play the role of Plato and his peers.  I for one do not wanted to play Socrates foil.
It is easier for you to comment on our opinions than to express your own.
So
Do you think that if an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, it should be actively opposed?

Respectfully Submitted
Jeff

And here I thought that the site had just been infected with stupid people given the quality of the postings.

This is in the O.P. ” We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. ” ———and answers your question, so I guess you all are not stupid.

You just do not have reading comprehension.

Regards
DL

I think your ideology is immoral and I oppose it

Opposition without an argument is you p ing in the wind.

Debate, discuss or depart.

Regards
DL

Granting immoral ideologies temporal authority is immoral. I may or may not depart according to my personal preference.

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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08 October 2017 09:22
 
Brick Bungalow - 08 October 2017 08:27 AM
Greatest I am - 08 October 2017 07:25 AM
Brick Bungalow - 07 October 2017 07:19 PM
Greatest I am - 07 October 2017 08:57 AM
jdrnd - 07 October 2017 07:45 AM
Greatest I am - 06 October 2017 05:07 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2017 04:30 PM

Sometimes I struggle to know whether your questions are serious.

Answer it and find out.

Regards
DL

Brick, myself and others are always suspicious when someone asks a question without also expressing their opinion of what they think the answer is.

I and others here do not want to play the role of Plato and his peers.  I for one do not wanted to play Socrates foil.
It is easier for you to comment on our opinions than to express your own.
So
Do you think that if an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, it should be actively opposed?

Respectfully Submitted
Jeff

And here I thought that the site had just been infected with stupid people given the quality of the postings.

This is in the O.P. ” We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. ” ———and answers your question, so I guess you all are not stupid.

You just do not have reading comprehension.

Regards
DL

I think your ideology is immoral and I oppose it

Opposition without an argument is you p ing in the wind.

Debate, discuss or depart.

Regards
DL

Granting immoral ideologies temporal authority is immoral.

I agree but that does not answer the question I put.

If you are to stay, at least speak to the O.P.

Regards
DL

 
EN
 
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EN
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08 October 2017 11:51
 

Sometimes actively opposing an ideology only causes the proponents to dig in.  Better sometimes just to let it die a natural death , as people see its weaknesses and leave it.  Sometimes.

 
dhave
 
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dhave
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08 October 2017 14:31
 

I enjoyed DL’s youtube clips a bunch, thanks for those.  Haven’t watched Alan Watts in years, a brilliant fellow, always entertaining.  This gnosticism business could be a separate topic, interesting on its own, but I’ll just respond to original query fwiw.

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

“In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?”

I don’t think I have an ideology.  I probably resonate most closely with a Buddhist view.  As your Alan Watts clip suggests (or another nearby clip I may have listened to) and as Zen teachers often recommend, “Just don’t know.”  Then you might know what to do when a situation arises.

OK. Do I win a prize now?

Regards,
Dave.

 
 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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09 October 2017 07:48
 
EN - 08 October 2017 11:51 AM

Sometimes actively opposing an ideology only causes the proponents to dig in.  Better sometimes just to let it die a natural death , as people see its weaknesses and leave it.  Sometimes.

If you are correct, you would not support the old adage of,—-  the for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Right?

You would advise good people and opponents to evil ideologies, like Sam Harris, to back off would you?
 
Regards
DL

 

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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09 October 2017 07:52
 
dhave - 08 October 2017 02:31 PM

I enjoyed DL’s youtube clips a bunch, thanks for those.  Haven’t watched Alan Watts in years, a brilliant fellow, always entertaining.  This gnosticism business could be a separate topic, interesting on its own, but I’ll just respond to original query fwiw.

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

“In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?”

I don’t think I have an ideology.  I probably resonate most closely with a Buddhist view.  As your Alan Watts clip suggests (or another nearby clip I may have listened to) and as Zen teachers often recommend, “Just don’t know.”  Then you might know what to do when a situation arises.

OK. Do I win a prize now?

Regards,
Dave.

Yes. The booby prize as there is nothing vague about the question.

Regards
DL

 

 
dhave
 
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dhave
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09 October 2017 08:21
 
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 07:52 AM
dhave - 08 October 2017 02:31 PM

I enjoyed DL’s youtube clips a bunch, thanks for those.  Haven’t watched Alan Watts in years, a brilliant fellow, always entertaining.  This gnosticism business could be a separate topic, interesting on its own, but I’ll just respond to original query fwiw.

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

Yes. The booby prize as there is nothing vague about the question.

Ideologies may include both good and bad qualities.  “Good” and “bad” in turn vary with different observers’ interpretations.

You seem intelligent enough to grok this subtle esoteric truth yet behave as though on a mission of some kind, arrogantly insulting posters along the way.

What’s really going on there, DL, did your cat die?

Regards,
Dave.

 

 
 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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09 October 2017 09:38
 
dhave - 09 October 2017 08:21 AM
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 07:52 AM
dhave - 08 October 2017 02:31 PM

I enjoyed DL’s youtube clips a bunch, thanks for those.  Haven’t watched Alan Watts in years, a brilliant fellow, always entertaining.  This gnosticism business could be a separate topic, interesting on its own, but I’ll just respond to original query fwiw.

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

Yes. The booby prize as there is nothing vague about the question.

Ideologies may include both good and bad qualities.  “Good” and “bad” in turn vary with different observers’ interpretations.

I would use the word must instead of may. That aside,

I agree that all such classifications are subjective.

You seem intelligent enough to grok this subtle esoteric truth yet behave as though on a mission of some kind, arrogantly insulting posters along the way.

I do have a mission but if you cannot take an honest criticism and just think it an arrogant insult then that is your thinking disfunction and not mine.

What’s really going on there, DL, did your cat die?

Regards,
Dave.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

“The question is too vague to say more.”

Questions remove vagueness.

How is the question vague.

Regards
DL

 

[ Edited: 09 October 2017 09:41 by Greatest I am]
 
Tahiti67
 
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Tahiti67
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Joined  13-09-2017
 
 
 
09 October 2017 10:38
 
Greatest I am - 05 October 2017 06:25 PM

If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL

I do not follow any particular ideology but probably draw from all. I don’t believe in any path, other than that human purpose is to evolve its consciousness awareness level. Everyone finds this in their own unique way. So no I do not think our own values require fighting other ‘bad’ ideologies, unless their premises and actions are affecting others negatively. Still then, is it effective to fight the evils by indicating them or does it only make the mass population hold onto them more? One ideology fighting another seems contradictory.  Comparisons in good points of each (because there is always something good to be found in anything) seems more profitable to me. It all depends on who has the truth on morality and whether it is truly upheld or not.

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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09 October 2017 11:01
 
Tahiti67 - 09 October 2017 10:38 AM
Greatest I am - 05 October 2017 06:25 PM

If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?

Christians and Muslims seem to think so as evidenced by Inquisitions and Jihads.

I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems. We are not pacifists but historically have done our ideological fighting with good arguments instead of violence.

We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. That is a take-off on the adage that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. Gnostic Christians believe in spreading good ideologies.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and good moral arguments and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them a better and more moral ways. Some of Christianity has adopted these better ways of late but Islam is lagging and fighting against ideological reform.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did call them out for their evils in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

In whatever belief system you follow, be it humanist, secular, atheistic or religious, does your ideology require you to fight other ideologies or religions you find immoral or harmful to society?

Please specify what ideology you follow in your reply.

Regards
DL

I do not follow any particular ideology but probably draw from all.

You follow an ideology that, like mine, tells me to be an esoteric ecumenist and cherry pick the best rules and laws regardless of where they are.

You might want to get into semantics but what you follow is and ideology or way of believing what you should do.

I don’t believe in any path,

Yes you do as you expressed it above as drawing the good from all ideologies.

other than that human purpose is to evolve its consciousness awareness level.

A good path even as your statement is self contradictory.

Everyone finds this in their own unique way. So no I do not think our own values require fighting other ‘bad’ ideologies, unless their premises and actions are affecting others negatively.

Do you see the intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions like Christianity and Islam as effecting others by the billions in a negative way since they discriminate and denigrate women and gays without a just cause?

Still then, is it effective to fight the evils by indicating them or does it only make the mass population hold onto them more?

Wars are won by killing one soldier at a time. The same applies to wrong thinking people. I do not promote killing of course but discussing and debating them till their immoral religions die by people leaving them one at a time.

One ideology fighting another seems contradictory.

Again, you use a weird word out of place.

  Comparisons in good points of each (because there is always something good to be found in anything) seems more profitable to me.

There is indeed profit in choosing the best way of thinking and acting but to only look at the good and ignore the evil that might override the goodness or evilness of the overall ideology would be to allow evil to grow.

It all depends on who has the truth on morality and whether it is truly upheld or not.

I think I can agree with this.

You said there is always something good to be found in anything.

Tell us what is good about Yahweh’s genocide as well as Hitler’s attempted genocide of the Jews so that I might see the good in those.

Regards
DL

 

 
dhave
 
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dhave
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09 October 2017 12:00
 
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 09:38 AM
dhave - 08 October 2017 02:31 PM

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

... there is nothing vague about the question.

Ideologies may include both good and bad qualities.  “Good” and “bad” in turn vary with different observers’ interpretations.

I would use the word must instead of may. That aside, I agree that all such classifications are subjective.

That’s news.  You just admitted that your original question, and therefore much of what you say here, is ambiguous.  “Vague” is a synonym for “ambiguous.”

You seem intelligent enough to grok this subtle esoteric truth yet behave as though on a mission of some kind, arrogantly insulting posters along the way.

I do have a mission ...

You just tanked your mission statement, DL.  Whoops.

“I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems.”

But then you told us that this mission statement is ambiguous, vague, and hence meaningless.  See above for more information.

You use the term “we” but I doubt you are a typical representative of Gnostic Christianity.  You are either doing research for a term paper or trolling Sam’s forum in hopes of proselytizing followers for your new and improved DL-Jihad.

Regards,
Dave.

 

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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Joined  11-03-2007
 
 
 
09 October 2017 17:24
 
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 07:48 AM
EN - 08 October 2017 11:51 AM

Sometimes actively opposing an ideology only causes the proponents to dig in.  Better sometimes just to let it die a natural death , as people see its weaknesses and leave it.  Sometimes.

If you are correct, you would not support the old adage of,—-  the for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Right?

You would advise good people and opponents to evil ideologies, like Sam Harris, to back off would you?
 
Regards
DL

 

I said sometimes.  I don’t think it’s one size fits all .

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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Joined  26-07-2013
 
 
 
09 October 2017 18:18
 
EN - 09 October 2017 05:24 PM
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 07:48 AM
EN - 08 October 2017 11:51 AM

Sometimes actively opposing an ideology only causes the proponents to dig in.  Better sometimes just to let it die a natural death , as people see its weaknesses and leave it.  Sometimes.

If you are correct, you would not support the old adage of,—-  the for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Right?

You would advise good people and opponents to evil ideologies, like Sam Harris, to back off would you?
 
Regards
DL

 

I said sometimes.  I don’t think it’s one size fits all .

Understood.

Regards
DL

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
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09 October 2017 18:24
 
Brick Bungalow - 08 October 2017 08:27 AM
Greatest I am - 08 October 2017 07:25 AM
Brick Bungalow - 07 October 2017 07:19 PM
Greatest I am - 07 October 2017 08:57 AM
jdrnd - 07 October 2017 07:45 AM
Greatest I am - 06 October 2017 05:07 PM
Brick Bungalow - 06 October 2017 04:30 PM

Sometimes I struggle to know whether your questions are serious.

Answer it and find out.

Regards
DL

Brick, myself and others are always suspicious when someone asks a question without also expressing their opinion of what they think the answer is.

I and others here do not want to play the role of Plato and his peers.  I for one do not wanted to play Socrates foil.
It is easier for you to comment on our opinions than to express your own.
So
Do you think that if an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, it should be actively opposed?

Respectfully Submitted
Jeff

And here I thought that the site had just been infected with stupid people given the quality of the postings.

This is in the O.P. ” We have also called on all good people to actively oppose religions and ideologies that they feel are immoral and not deserving of their respect. ” ———and answers your question, so I guess you all are not stupid.

You just do not have reading comprehension.

Regards
DL

I think your ideology is immoral and I oppose it

Opposition without an argument is you p ing in the wind.

Debate, discuss or depart.

Regards
DL

Granting immoral ideologies temporal authority is immoral.

I agree. That is why I promote opposition to them and fighting their ideology whenever we can.

Go Sam go. Be like John but only use your mouth to shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pnra8Ke1So

Regards
DL

 

 

 

 
Greatest I am
 
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Greatest I am
Total Posts:  205
Joined  26-07-2013
 
 
 
09 October 2017 18:27
 
dhave - 09 October 2017 12:00 PM
Greatest I am - 09 October 2017 09:38 AM
dhave - 08 October 2017 02:31 PM

“If you think an ideology or religion is immoral and evil, should you actively oppose it?”

It depends.  The question is too vague to say more.  Life is typically more complex than a simple yes/no or black/white scenario permits.

... there is nothing vague about the question.

Ideologies may include both good and bad qualities.  “Good” and “bad” in turn vary with different observers’ interpretations.

I would use the word must instead of may. That aside, I agree that all such classifications are subjective.

That’s news.  You just admitted that your original question, and therefore much of what you say here, is ambiguous.  “Vague” is a synonym for “ambiguous.”

You seem intelligent enough to grok this subtle esoteric truth yet behave as though on a mission of some kind, arrogantly insulting posters along the way.

I do have a mission ...

You just tanked your mission statement, DL.  Whoops.

“I am a Gnostic Christian and we have always seen it as part of our belief system to oppose immoral and evil belief systems.”

But then you told us that this mission statement is ambiguous, vague, and hence meaningless.  See above for more information.

You use the term “we” but I doubt you are a typical representative of Gnostic Christianity.  You are either doing research for a term paper or trolling Sam’s forum in hopes of proselytizing followers for your new and improved DL-Jihad.

Regards,
Dave.

I am doing my bit to fight immoral ideologies. Are you?

What is your description of a typical representative of Gnostic Christianity?

This I have to hear.

Regards
DL

 
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