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Notes From The Underground

 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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02 December 2017 22:23
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2017 08:13 AM

This forum can be a very confusing place.

Quoted for posterity.

Q.  Are members with most posts tallied the most popular and well liked?

A.  Quality over quantity every time.

Q.  Is this forum exclusively a site for atheists?

A.  I used to think of myself as an anti-theist. Albert Camus broke me.

Q.  Is there a good reason one member is relegated to a single thread?  I mean what’s the deal with that?

A.  Yes and no (all over again). Parsing through the details would require defining both “good” and “reason.”
 
Q.  Are female posters encouraged to knuckle under in the face of a challenge?

A.  Frankly, if I thought that I’d only ever be agreed with, I’d be gone already. Insofar as I’ve been able to determine, women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact (it’s nurture, not nature).

Q.  What is the significance of the title Notes From The Underground?

A.  People read too much into things?

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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03 December 2017 06:17
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2017 01:25 PM

true story, one member calls another member a jerk and it gets moved to The Klein Bottle.  Despite the fact the member referred to as a jerk isn’t even offended at being referred to as a jerk.  At almost exactly the same moment another member calls a newbie a twit and absolutely nothing happens.  That sends a bit of a mixed message which may, or may not, be the reason that newbie hasn’t posted since.  What could’ve possibly gone awry?

The impression that leaves suggests personal attacks made by some are relocated while personal attacks made by others are given a free pass.

You may be correct.

but context may play a roll in the decision.

...or not

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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03 December 2017 06:22
 
ubique13 - 02 December 2017 10:23 PM

 
...women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact…

and cats are more intelligent than both men and women humans,
...and they know it!

 

 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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03 December 2017 08:03
 
jdrnd - 03 December 2017 06:22 AM
ubique13 - 02 December 2017 10:23 PM

 
...women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact…

and cats are more intelligent than both men and women humans,
...and they know it!

I am unsure as to what your point may be other than to serve as an illustrative example of what I had described.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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03 December 2017 08:17
 
ubique13 - 03 December 2017 08:03 AM
jdrnd - 03 December 2017 06:22 AM
ubique13 - 02 December 2017 10:23 PM

...women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact…

and cats are more intelligent than both men and women humans,
...and they know it!

I am unsure as to what your point may be other than to serve as an illustrative example of what I had described.


The word we use for this is humor.

I’m sure your people have something like it too ... I think.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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03 December 2017 08:21
 
SkepticX - 03 December 2017 08:17 AM
ubique13 - 03 December 2017 08:03 AM
jdrnd - 03 December 2017 06:22 AM
ubique13 - 02 December 2017 10:23 PM

...women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact…

and cats are more intelligent than both men and women humans,
...and they know it!

I am unsure as to what your point may be other than to serve as an illustrative example of what I had described.


The word we use for this is humor.

I’m sure your people have something like it too ... I think.

You mean both men and women are human? Go figure. Funny. Ha.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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03 December 2017 08:23
 
June - 02 December 2017 05:05 PM

Some of my impressions are that I’m convinced without doubt,  after following this forum now for several years decisions are made favorably towards posters based on politics.  Not religion or god!  If the female is of the “correct” political persuasion she is recognized as fully human and worthy of extended latitude, even encouraged to carry on.  Any insults given by her or of a male with a shared belief do not matter for their hearts and motivations are pure and in the right place.  If the female (or male) slants in the “wrong” direction, then no, a malevolent creature is assumed to be behind the keyboard.    That was a difficult lesson I had to learn after leaving the faith,  chosen for me at birth.  I assumed, and wrongly,  that to be an atheist the divide between right and left was equally divided.    Not so, or even close.

Thanks for chiming in with an angle no one is currently representing.  I hadn’t thought of it in quite the same way.  I can see how difficult that must be.  Especially when you’re feeling outnumbered.  Perseverance is essential.  I am always interested in your take on things and willingness to entertain political discussions without allowing it to interfere with your ability to get along with fellow posters.  (Even when they viciously attack.)  That’s not easy.  We are complex creatures carrying a variety of opinions, on a variety of issues, that stray from any sort of common stereotypical party affiliation.  We’re not even all from the same country.  Some folks will go to great lengths in order to pick a fight.  And some haven’t any political views at all.  Which doesn’t seem to matter to some men who have childishly interrupted, selling imaginary popcorn, with calls of “cat fight” whenever females disagree.  Which is extremely discouraging and successfully silences people for asking simple questions.  You never witness that behaviour when men disagree.  Even when they act like whiny little bitches.  This is very territorial behaviour.  That remains the greatest challenge.  Your posts offer a glimpse into a point of view I personally cannot possess.  The brief discussions we’ve shared illustrate a desire to understand the differences in our perceptions rather than deter us from having conversations at all.  And that’s the only currency of any worth around here.  Perspectives are only as useful as our willingness to hear them out.  Projecting only leaves us having conversations with ourselves.  It’s kind of like fun.  You can’t fully appreciate it when you take yourself too seriously.  And there’s nothing more valuable than a steady sense of humour.  Laughter is a great equalizer.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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03 December 2017 08:26
 

This examination has become a regular holiday-end of year thing.

It is difficult to predict how some forum features will be perceived. Initially, I overlooked the effect of how high or low a sub-forum appears on the main page (some patrons prefer to post in threads at the top of the page). Or that relocation to The Klein Bottle force-marches a poor poster’s expression down the Trail of Tears to an isolated gulag on the low end of the main page.

The Klein Bottle was intended to be enabling and liberating. Should a squabble appear to step outside of the thread’s context, it may continue in The Klein Bottle and not derail the thread. If the squabble remains within context of the thread, then the thread is stuck with it. I’m sure some opportunities to use it have been overlooked. The Jan-GAD scenario worked out fine. Of course Mr. GAD is ruffled by it. I know that’s coming. Resisting the urge to call Mr. GAD a jerk is in the best interests of the forum. I have stated “this is not a disciplanary measure” as often as The Owl Guy has stated that he has no argument to defend.

As for the other comments, if such perceptions are reported, they cannot be dismissed.

A pecking order? I might have one without realizing it. The one I am aware of looks like this:

The Boss
Karl the Webmaster
The Hop Studio Ubers
Me and Mart
Patrons
Jar Monkeys

We have two containment threads presently. The Mabus has The Mabus Tank. It does not get a lot of traffic.

Women posters do not need to be protected from the lads by a white in night armor. Rather, the wankie lads need to be protected from me. That has always been an aspect of my social life and likely why I don’t have a lot of pals.

The notion of a pedastel is of great concern. Most of the posters I hold in high regard are no longer posting. But the perception matters. I have been told that I give certain posters too much slack and maybe that is true. It is also true that cordial PM’s and phone calls are used to handle some issues privately. I will call the Ubers and shout at them if necessary.

Please use the ‘report post’ function if you see a problem. We see them and will sort them out. Some newbie complaints address things that normally don’t raise an eyebrow. Some are reporting directly to the Ubers, who then contact me.

Everyone seems better on the phone. I have a growing pile of recordings with Doc Byrne and Jeff and Mart. I could be editing them but there is a certain level of content build-up necessary before it screams podcast. I hope Jeff and I can see our conversation through soon. Are these my pedastel people?


This past summer, Mart discovered that cycling up and down the seaside with cottages and rolling hills is more FUN and healthier than staring at the forum. I’ll bet he’s right.


All this can be taken as a defence or a cry for help. It is getting harder to keep up with all this.

 

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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03 December 2017 08:42
 
LadyJane - 03 December 2017 08:23 AM
June - 02 December 2017 05:05 PM

Some of my impressions are that I’m convinced without doubt,  after following this forum now for several years decisions are made favorably towards posters based on politics.  Not religion or god!  If the female is of the “correct” political persuasion she is recognized as fully human and worthy of extended latitude, even encouraged to carry on.  Any insults given by her or of a male with a shared belief do not matter for their hearts and motivations are pure and in the right place.  If the female (or male) slants in the “wrong” direction, then no, a malevolent creature is assumed to be behind the keyboard.    That was a difficult lesson I had to learn after leaving the faith,  chosen for me at birth.  I assumed, and wrongly,  that to be an atheist the divide between right and left was equally divided.    Not so, or even close.

Thanks for chiming in with an angle no one is currently representing.

Agreed.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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03 December 2017 09:06
 
bigredfutbol - 02 December 2017 09:01 AM

I have over 5000 posts and am neither popular nor well-liked. I’m mostly just stubborn and keep coming back in spite of myself. wink

There is something of a pecking order here, and a subtly enforced culture which is somewhat unwelcoming. Which is why it doesn’t bother me in the slightest that I’m not one of the cool kids.

I have to disagree with these conclusions about your status here.

 

bigredfutbol - 02 December 2017 09:01 AM

Anyway, good job kicking the rock over to see what scurries out.

Yup ... someone has to do it from time to time ...

LJ, I’ve always enjoyed your posts (not really a poetry fan though—an artistic blind spot I guess). You often provide an insightful angle (occasionally also a bit inciteful, at least for some) from a larger viewpoint than many of us (Middle) ‘Murcans aren’t used to seeing, and that many of us make much effort to keep that way. Sometimes that gets lower lips poking out and quivering a bit, which is almost always a good thing, IMO.

But I guess I’m a bit blind to some of the issues you mention. I probably just ignore those posts/posters—or at least that’s an appealing reason for me. I may just blow it off from my own perspective, which I guess would just be a slightly different degree of blindness. I’ve kind of gone the same way you have though—less interested in participating recently. Not so big on some of the topics that seem popular, or the comically calibrated ruler contests. A bit turned off by the social climate, which seems to have suffered over time—the toxic climate of the Interweb is seeping in at a problematic rate and souring things a bit much for my taste (clearly it’s the millennials). It seems to be a much bigger thing than the forum though—may just be the malodorous US social climate getting spread all over everyone else, but I think the Interweb may have a whole lot to do with that as well—may be an underlying cause—may turn out to be a source of pretty much unlimited fuel for our inner demons to flourish that flied under the radar because it’s not Real Life online. I’ve been missing the much bigger, pre-globalized/pre-Interwebbed world in some key ways because of all of this, but that may have as much or more to do with lost youth and naivete. Hard to say, largely because it’s definitely a very different world, and there’s definitely something very unhealthy, even self-destructive, about how we use seemingly limitless information (much of it “information”) if we’re not very conscientious and vigilant and humble about how our nature would have us use it.

Anyway, I think this forum at least started out as something of a substance over form oasis in this sense, but the surrounding desert also seems to be closing in, and I’m not sure there’s all that much oasis left any more. We tend to be fixated too much on the desert to give the oasis the attention it needs.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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03 December 2017 13:31
 
Nhoj Morley - 03 December 2017 08:26 AM

It is difficult to predict how some forum features will be perceived. Initially, I overlooked the effect of how high or low a sub-forum appears on the main page (some patrons prefer to post in threads at the top of the page). Or that relocation to The Klein Bottle force-marches a poor poster’s expression down the Trail of Tears to an isolated gulag on the low end of the main page.

I don’t think that placement of the threads matters all that much to the patrons.  We tend to post on topics of interest wherever they happen to appear on the page.  Your reasons for relocating posts are beside the point.  When someone is marched to The Klein Bottle it still feels like a gulag no matter where the gulag is positioned. 

The Klein Bottle was intended to be enabling and liberating.

And it is.  That is why I voluntarily visit often.  I think maybe people are resistant to forced liberation.

Should a squabble appear to step outside of the thread’s context, it may continue in The Klein Bottle and not derail the thread.

It’s an excellent alternative.  I understand that and you understand that.  I’m just not so sure it is clearly understood by everyone.  Hence the lack of traffic there.  It’s certainly more dignified to excuse yourself from the dinner table and retire to the parlour, to continue the conversation, than suggest taking it outside like an angry goon.

The Jan-GAD scenario worked out fine. Of course Mr. GAD is ruffled by it. I know that’s coming. Resisting the urge to call Mr. GAD a jerk is in the best interests of the forum.

Agreed.  Although, the use of the word jerk was inferred whereas the use of word twit was deliberate.  And that scenario managed to escape a trip to The Klein Bottle.  And that presents a bit of a break in continuity, sir.  That can be confusing to the objective observer.

As for the other comments, if such perceptions are reported, they cannot be dismissed.

And as long as wearing the Sheriff’s hat, whilst running the human resources department, poses no problem I see nothing wrong with that. 

We have two containment threads presently. The Mabus has The Mabus Tank. It does not get a lot of traffic.

Mr. Mabus doesn’t throw insults at everyone from his jar nor does he think everything that people say is about him.  At least, he never lets on. 

Women posters do not need to be protected from the lads by a white in night armor. Rather, the wankie lads need to be protected from me. That has always been an aspect of my social life and likely why I don’t have a lot of pals.

And that often goes down like Kevin Spacey at a Barry Manilow concert.

Indiscriminately and overly aggressive.

The notion of a pedastel is of great concern. Most of the posters I hold in high regard are no longer posting. But the perception matters. I have been told that I give certain posters too much slack and maybe that is true. It is also true that cordial PM’s and phone calls are used to handle some issues privately. I will call the Ubers and shout at them if necessary.

Pedestals are superficial monuments made for show.  Pillars are solid structures that serve to hold up the joint.  Any insights of newcomers may get lost in superficial thinking if the columns of the veterans are not held in high regard.  Taking for granted all the presently posting patrons takes for granted the very foundation every poster’s standing on. 

All this can be taken as a defence or a cry for help. It is getting harder to keep up with all this.

Yes, and yes.  Just pace yerself like the rest of us.  Timing is everything.  And everything is bon.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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03 December 2017 16:42
 
ubique13 - 03 December 2017 08:21 AM
SkepticX - 03 December 2017 08:17 AM
ubique13 - 03 December 2017 08:03 AM
jdrnd - 03 December 2017 06:22 AM
ubique13 - 02 December 2017 10:23 PM

...women are generally more intelligent than men, many women just seem pathological in their unwillingness to recognize this fact…

and cats are more intelligent than both men and women humans,
...and they know it!

I am unsure as to what your point may be other than to serve as an illustrative example of what I had described.


The word we use for this is humor.

I’m sure your people have something like it too ... I think.

You mean both men and women are human? Go figure. Funny. Ha.

For transparency sake,
23andme indicates that I am 3.5% Neanderthal.

 

 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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03 December 2017 17:30
 
jdrnd - 03 December 2017 04:42 PM

For transparency sake,
23andme indicates that I am 3.5% Neanderthal.

Hahaha. Touche. LOL

 
 
MARTIN_UK
 
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MARTIN_UK
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04 December 2017 09:10
 
Nhoj Morley - 03 December 2017 08:26 AM

This examination has become a regular holiday-end of year thing…

Not always a bad thing as long as it’s positive, I appreciate all you do here to keep things going.

Nhoj Morley - 03 December 2017 08:26 AM

The Boss
Karl the Webmaster
The Hop Studio Ubers
Me and Mart
Patrons
Jar Monkeys

Ah… first mention I’ve had for a while.
I am still here reading and generally scratching myself.

 

Everyone seems better on the phone. I have a growing pile of recordings with Doc Byrne and Jeff and Mart. I could be editing them but there is a certain level of content build-up necessary before it screams podcast. I hope Jeff and I can see our conversation through soon. Are these my pedastel people?

Me again…

This past summer, Mart discovered that cycling up and down the seaside with cottages and rolling hills is more FUN and healthier than staring at the forum. I’ll bet he’s right.

Yes. But…

All this can be taken as a defence or a cry for help. It is getting harder to keep up with all this.

I’m still here if anyone feels the need to communicate… by their preferred medium.

I like mind melding, but other forms of interaction are welcome.  cheese

 

 

 

 
EN
 
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EN
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04 December 2017 11:43
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2017 08:13 AM

It’s also entirely possible some patrons don’t know when to shut the hell up.

Guilty as charged.  I lost my filter long ago.

 
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