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Christmas is obviously more about changing lives (and society) than toys, trees, and tinsel.

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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26 December 2017 07:07
 
 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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26 December 2017 10:03
 

Convinced the world that a nasty lie is a somehow a good thing.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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26 December 2017 11:22
 
GAD - 26 December 2017 10:03 AM

Convinced the world that a nasty lie is a somehow a good thing.

Don’t forget the value of global theocratic hegemony, and colonial empires so expansive that any and all cultural traditions are assimilated into the entirety of Christendom. Fun stuff. rolleyes

 
 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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26 December 2017 11:48
 

How unfortunate they didn’t do all that without including such problematic baggage.

Hopefully it’s a threshold kind of thing—when a certain percentage of people get past this cum hoc ergo propter hoc notion that because we’ve survived and developed with Christianity and produced art and literature and music and all that, it’s because we’ve survived and developed with Christianity, is if we wouldn’t act as humans act and develop such things without that particular influence. Ironically, because of the more toxic aspects of Bad Religion the same argument is often taken further in terms of when Christianity monopolized the arts—because the lack of devotion to Christianity could be very costly and because Christianity dominated society with an iron fist for so long we have long periods for which Christian art is by far the dominant genre (for lack of a better word), therefore we wouldn’t have developed art without Christianity.

No consideration for the obvious certainty that the arts would have developed just fine without Christianity, and for long periods wouldn’t have been stifled by such intense a fixation on a single subject.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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26 December 2017 11:58
 
SkepticX - 26 December 2017 11:48 AM

How unfortunate they didn’t do all that without including such problematic baggage.

Hopefully it’s a threshold kind of thing—when a certain percentage of people get past this cum hoc ergo propter hoc notion that because we’ve survived and developed with Christianity and produced art and literature and music and all that, it’s because we’ve survived and developed with Christianity, is if we wouldn’t act as humans act and develop such things without that particular influence. Ironically, because of the more toxic aspects of Bad Religion the same argument is often taken further in terms of when Christianity monopolized the arts—because the lack of devotion to Christianity could be very costly and because Christianity dominated society with an iron fist for so long we have long periods for which Christian art is by far the dominant genre (for lack of a better word), therefore we wouldn’t have developed art without Christianity.

No consideration for the obvious certainty that the arts would have developed just fine without Christianity, and for long periods wouldn’t have been stifled by such intense a fixation on a single subject.

Do you mean to suggest that the Romans actually subjected people to brutal torture and execution just for the amusement? Oh, that’s right…

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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26 December 2017 12:38
 
ubique13 - 26 December 2017 11:22 AM
GAD - 26 December 2017 10:03 AM

Convinced the world that a nasty lie is a somehow a good thing.

Don’t forget the value of global theocratic hegemony, and colonial empires so expansive that any and all cultural traditions are assimilated into the entirety of Christendom. Fun stuff. rolleyes

That’s the real value, power and control and the justification of authority to do what would be otherwise considered the most vile and evil acts and call it good.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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26 December 2017 12:45
 
GAD - 26 December 2017 12:38 PM
ubique13 - 26 December 2017 11:22 AM
GAD - 26 December 2017 10:03 AM

Convinced the world that a nasty lie is a somehow a good thing.

Don’t forget the value of global theocratic hegemony, and colonial empires so expansive that any and all cultural traditions are assimilated into the entirety of Christendom. Fun stuff. rolleyes

That’s the real value, power and control and the justification of authority to do what would be otherwise considered the most vile and evil acts and call it good.


Of course. It’s all relatively basic political manipulation. Convince someone powerful that you hold the keys to the kingdom, and then the rewards are far better than being the public face of that power.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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27 December 2017 08:21
 

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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27 December 2017 09:55
 
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

Peace be upon you; that’s the mission. hmmm

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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27 December 2017 16:06
 
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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27 December 2017 18:47
 
EN - 27 December 2017 04:06 PM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

Yep.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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27 December 2017 21:40
 
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 06:47 PM
EN - 27 December 2017 04:06 PM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

Yep.

You are so easy. The definition of Christianity is not “the good, the bad and the ugly”, its just “good”, which we know is a lie.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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28 December 2017 07:43
 
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 06:47 PM
EN - 27 December 2017 04:06 PM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

Yep.

With some reservation.
We will not accept historical appropriation or revisionism.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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01 January 2018 06:52
 
Jefe - 28 December 2017 07:43 AM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 06:47 PM
EN - 27 December 2017 04:06 PM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

Yep.

With some reservation.
We will not accept historical appropriation or revisionism.

If an individual’s religion inspires that person to do something good, it is good.  If an individual’s religion inspires him to do bad, it is bad. It’s not that hard, and involves no appropriation or revision.  But the focus needs to be on the individual, not “Christianity” as a corporate concept.  If an individual is inspired by Jesus’ example to go help a poor person or pay for a kid’s education or pay for someone’s medical bills, that’s a good thing, and that person’s religion is good.  Can’t get good fruit from a bad tree, etc.  On the other hand, if a person is inspired by his/her religion to be a racist or a sexist or to kill someone, that is bad, and that person’s religion is bad.  We are all inspired by something, whether it be a religious or a non-religious source. Whether it is good or bad inspiration depends on the action.  Pretty simple concept.

If a Muslim or a Hindu is inspired by Muhammad or Krishna to do good, I would say the same thing.  That individual’s personal religion is good.

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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01 January 2018 07:13
 
EN - 01 January 2018 06:52 AM

If an individual’s religion inspires that person to do something good, it is good.  If an individual’s religion inspires him to do bad, it is bad. It’s not that hard, and involves no appropriation or revision.  But the focus needs to be on the individual, not “Christianity” as a corporate concept.  If an individual is inspired by Jesus’ example to go help a poor person or pay for a kid’s education or pay for someone’s medical bills, that’s a good thing, and that person’s religion is good.  Can’t get good fruit from a bad tree, etc.  On the other hand, if a person is inspired by his/her religion to be a racist or a sexist or to kill someone, that is bad, and that person’s religion is bad.  We are all inspired by something, whether it be a religious or a non-religious source. Whether it is good or bad inspiration depends on the action.  Pretty simple concept.

If a Muslim or a Hindu is inspired by Muhammad or Krishna to do good, I would say the same thing.  That individual’s personal religion is good.

I agree.  People should only be judged by what they say and do, not by their personal beliefs.  We need to be tolerant and accepting of each other.  We don’t need to create additional divisions between people.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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01 January 2018 07:55
 
EN - 01 January 2018 06:52 AM
Jefe - 28 December 2017 07:43 AM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 06:47 PM
EN - 27 December 2017 04:06 PM
Skipshot - 27 December 2017 08:21 AM

Here we go again, with Christianity taking credit for all the good and none of the bad.

If we take the blame for the bad (there has been evil done in the name of Jesus) will you give us credit for the good?

Yep.

With some reservation.
We will not accept historical appropriation or revisionism.

If an individual’s religion inspires that person to do something good, it is good.  If an individual’s religion inspires him to do bad, it is bad. It’s not that hard, and involves no appropriation or revision.  But the focus needs to be on the individual, not “Christianity” as a corporate concept.  If an individual is inspired by Jesus’ example to go help a poor person or pay for a kid’s education or pay for someone’s medical bills, that’s a good thing, and that person’s religion is good.  Can’t get good fruit from a bad tree, etc.  On the other hand, if a person is inspired by his/her religion to be a racist or a sexist or to kill someone, that is bad, and that person’s religion is bad.  We are all inspired by something, whether it be a religious or a non-religious source. Whether it is good or bad inspiration depends on the action.  Pretty simple concept.

If a Muslim or a Hindu is inspired by Muhammad or Krishna to do good, I would say the same thing.  That individual’s personal religion is good.

Yep.  If there was a way to cut down on attributions to magic, ghosts, and spirits for inspiration, that would be good.  I would also like to see religion inspire helping one another rather than a goal of getting oneself into heaven.

 
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