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The Trouble With Trioonity

 
EN
 
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EN
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27 March 2018 14:56
 
jdrnd - 27 March 2018 02:45 PM

Have you drank one yet?

After engaging in this conversation, I feel like I have.

 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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27 March 2018 15:27
 
EN - 27 March 2018 02:56 PM
jdrnd - 27 March 2018 02:45 PM

Have you drank one yet?

After engaging in this conversation, I feel like I have.

Hah,
If you have, you owe me royalty.
That drink is trademarked.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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30 March 2018 08:30
 
Nhoj Morley - 25 March 2018 01:31 PM

Mr. ASD often lurks close. “Tis but another step to turn that bi-view into two ongoing interactions of three sets of gears.

The self is the illusion created when Mr. Flashlight explains Mr. Flashlight. Free will is the illusion created when Mr. Flashlight selfishly takes credit away from Mr. Hippo. Isn’t it possible that Mr. Now is the illusion created when an “enlightened” Mr. Flashlight magnanimously tries to make sense of Mr. Hippo?

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 March 2018 14:20
 

The trouble with trioonity is quite similar to the trouble with psychology, psychiatry, philosophy, etc.  They are summed up quite well here and here.  Previously mentioned here

 
 
SkepticX
 
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30 March 2018 17:34
 

Szasz was interesting. Schaler’s speech was about 10% point and 90% buelshite (a lot of false equivalencies and turning exceptions into rules going on, for starters).

I can see why that would appeal to some kids though.

 
 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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30 March 2018 17:53
 

Woot!

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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31 March 2018 06:33
 
bbearren - 30 March 2018 02:20 PM

The trouble with trioonity is quite similar to the trouble with psychology, psychiatry, philosophy, etc.  They are summed up quite well here and here.  Previously mentioned here

You’re siccing Szasz on Trioon? You have a subtle but fine sense of humor, Bruce.

 
 
EN
 
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31 March 2018 07:45
 
bbearren - 30 March 2018 05:53 PM

Woot!

Do you think there ANY mental illness - like schizophrenia?

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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31 March 2018 09:33
 

Mr. Owl Guy makes a categorization error.

I have to agree with nv. Trioon is all in or out. To rustle Mr. Horse’s metaphor, trioon cannot be a useful tool in a toolbox. It is the toolbox that engulfs all others.

This isn’t a deep science that requires a thorough understanding of neurons or biology. We have been approaching the science with the wrong model at the start. Attempts to support this model have led to strange and seemingly impossible conclusions that are defended with a religious fervor. There is simply no alternative without stepping into magic and woo? Nonsense. Yer already there IMO. Trioon steps out decisively.

An earth-centric model of the solar system cannot be influenced or modified by a solar-centric system. It can only be replace by it. One does not need to be an expert on the composition of planets or the nature of gravity to suggest a different basic configuration of the objects involved. Free will and the illusive self are like epicycles solving a faulty concept of orbits. Likewise, a single congealing of experience never happens, ever. It is a misbegotten idea necessary to imagine a ‘thing’ that can be accountable or have an afterlife. If we can’t see zeroes, we can’t be zeroes.

I do not suggest that anyone look for the trioon machinery in themselves at least at first. It is easy to see in other people. Count the beats, watch the eyes, mark the pace and note the inflection to observe what the machinery of their perception is doing. Then turn the same examination on what you look and sound like from the outside.

Everyone’s narrative perceptual ability carries a rating on The Malarkey Scale. Fives overwhelm and confuse the Twos. Twos make the Fives eyes roll for their moronic simplicity. Ones and Twos like Trump. Threes are skeptical. Fives are horrified. Fives can be Twos when it comes to other people’s posting. Mr. Murray discovered the same principle in The Bell Curve. Differences in narrative training practices far outweigh genetic differences and can decisively evolve or de-evolve in a generation or two.

Of course I welcome new eyes looking at the stuff. I would point to Cult of Zero, Pizza & Beer, End of Time and The Malarkey Scale as somewhat servicable and perhaps the way in. I’m nearly a year into making the next principia item.

Mr. ASD:
The self is the illusion created when Mr. Flashlight explains Mr. Flashlight. Free will is the illusion created when Mr. Flashlight selfishly takes credit away from Mr. Hippo. Isn’t it possible that Mr. Now is the illusion created when an “enlightened” Mr. Flashlight magnanimously tries to make sense of Mr. Hippo?

Nope. Mr. Now is a cartoony characterization of our cinematic or ‘following’ perception in action. Following is not an illusion. It is a percetual ability. Mr. Hippo is a cartoony characterization of our sub-cinematic or primary perception and is blind to explanations of anything. Our ability to internally shepherd our perceptions after we have perceived them is the function of the third eye or post-cinematic perception and our only means of hosting explanations or knowing that we know them. Mr. Flashlight is a cartoony characterization of over-trained and excessive self-shepherding. Excessive auto-narration (from poor training) leads to short-sightedness, emotionally driven thinking and religious experiences.

Forgive the tardy reply. I am having a spell of trouble with typing. I may have to try one of those damn voice thingies again.

 
 
bbearren
 
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31 March 2018 10:19
 
EN - 31 March 2018 07:45 AM
bbearren - 30 March 2018 05:53 PM

Woot!

Do you think there ANY mental illness - like schizophrenia?

What I KNOW is that there are NO clinical tests for ANY so-called mental disease; zero, zip, nada, none.  “Chemical imbalance” in the brain is thrown around as a diagnosis when in fact it is unknown what a correct chemical balance in the brain might look like.  (I’ll follow with a couple or three true tales from my past for examples)

 
 
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bbearren
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31 March 2018 10:30
 

Here’s one:

I lost my life-long best friend a few years ago to liver cancer.  Our friendship began in second grade and continued steadfastly until his death.  Ray’s father was a binge-drinking alcoholic, and his mother was an elementary school teacher who divorced his father when he was quite young, before he started school.  She never remarried, and Ray was raised by his single mother.  This set of circumstances were unlikely to have been helpful during his formative years.  Ray was quite intelligent, opinionated and strong-willed.

He was often confrontational, and the two of us had quite a number of disagreements in the early years.  We never came to blows, and were always able to reach some semblance of settlement over our differences.  He was teased a lot, talked about behind his back a lot, but never bullied; everyone knew he would fight back with extreme vigor, so bullying per se was not an issue.  He himself was never a bully.  As he grew older he became more difficult for his mother to deal with, rebellious and disobedient.  His mother would ask his father for assistance, but that only amounted to his father giving him a good beating with a belt as punishment, extracting a promise of good behavior in the future.

Around age 10 he struck his mother during an argument, juvenile authorities got involved, there were evaluations, and Ray was confined to a mental health facility, G. Pierce Wood Memorial Hospital, for about a year (in 2002, the mental hospital closed, but it soon became the DeSoto County Juvenile Correctional Complex).  He returned to our class, diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic, with an ever-present bottle of pills rattling in his pocket.  I don’t know what was prescribed.  After a few months, Ray was again carted off to G. Pierce Wood for an extended stay.  This became a pattern for the rest of our school years.

After graduation Ray had difficulty holding a job for any length of time, moved around a lot, and it was hard for me to keep in touch with him, but he would come visit me from time to time and we would spend hours catching up and discussing issues of common interest.  He always rattled when he walked, carrying his prescription meds with him everywhere he went.  He had tried just about every illegal drug except for heroin, but didn’t care much for any of them.  He didn’t like his prescriptions meds, either, but he said they kept him numbed down and made it easier to put up with people.

In his twenties Ray realized that if he checked himself into a mental health facility, he could check himself out when he was ready, rather than having to wait for some doctor to sign off on him.  When pressures got to be a bit much for him, that was his refuge; when he felt better, he would leave.  That continued for a number of years.  He once came to visit me a couple of days after one of those episodes, and we were discussing his stay.  Ray was very well read in the psychiatric literature of the day.  He was disappointed with the doctor, saying, “He had me diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and that was it.”  Ray was hoping for some counseling, someone to talk to about his behavioral issues, but the only folks he got to talk to were fellow patients.

In his late 40’s he met and married a woman who had fallen in love with him.  She added a stability to his life that he never seemed to have had, and he tapered off his meds until he was free of them.  He was happy, stable, got a job as a drug rehab counselor at which he excelled even with no formal training.  The last years of his life were his happiest.

Behavioral issues?  Without a doubt.  Schizophrenia?  Not a chance.

 
 
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31 March 2018 10:36
 
Nhoj Morley - 31 March 2018 09:33 AM

Mr. Owl Guy makes a categorization error.

I have to agree with nv. Trioon is all in or out. To rustle Mr. Horse’s metaphor, trioon cannot be a useful tool in a toolbox. It is the toolbox that engulfs all others.

I make a categorization.  I’m tossing trioon in with philosophy.  I see psychology and psychiatry as dressed-out philosophy.

To you it is, quite naturally, in error.  But I’ll stick with my categorization, thanks.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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31 March 2018 10:37
 
SkepticX - 30 March 2018 05:34 PM

Szasz was interesting…

I had never heard Szasz speak.
I understand the problem.
The video is a group of isolated Szasz statements strung together.
If Szasz means what he says, then he doesn’t understand the point of having a list of Diagnoses.
In our western civilization reductionist society, that list of diagnoses “reflect” a means of trying to understand human behaviour.

 
LadyJane
 
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31 March 2018 11:12
 

That isn’t the way I read ASD’s post at all.  There was no mention of any explanations to Mr. Hippo. 

There are a few slight alterations I’d make.  The self is the illusion created when Mr. Now explains Mr. Flashlight.  Free will is the illusion created when Mr. Now takes credit for everything Mr. Flashlight shone a light on and some of what Mr. Hippo picked up on, that Mr. Flashlight missed entirely.  Mr. Now fills in the blanks.  When you’re driving in a car and Mr. Now zones out, it leaves Mr. Hippo at the wheel.  An accident occurs up ahead, Mr. Flashlight switches on, and evasive actions are taken.  Mr. Now takes credit for being such an awesome driver.  I don’t get why anyone would deter those capable of understanding, so dismissively, instead of encouraging the scheme they’re meaning to sell.   

I’m starting to wonder if the author is experiencing post traumatic cinema perception.

 
 
bbearren
 
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31 March 2018 11:41
 

Here’s another:

When I was a child, ADHD was not yet generally considered a disorder.  For that I’m grateful, because I surely would have fit, a poster child, even.  In elementary school, the first of every school year, I read all the text books cover to cover even though being sternly admonished to not read ahead.  The rest of the year, I drew, mostly airplanes and battle formations.

I mentioned Ray’s mother earlier.  She was my teacher in second grade.  At Ray’s graveside service after his funeral, we had a nice long talk.  She told me of a number of times she had tried to catch me being inattentive in her classroom.  She would be at the blackboard explaining something, I would be at my desk drawing something, but still listening to her.  She told me that she would notice me from the corner of her eye and say to herself, “I’ve got him now!” then call on me and ask me a question about the lesson.  I would look up from my drawing and give her the correct answer.  She told me she finally gave up, realizing that I already knew the material.

She told me that she made sure that my reputation preceeded me throughout elementary school, because she would warn my teachers for each upcoming grade to spend their time with the others in their class, because I would be ahead of the rest of them.  The only time I actually participated in class was during reading, when we would read aloud in turn.  The rest of the time I was drawing.

Apparently this was passed along genetically to my youngest son.  Except during his elementary school years, ADHD was all the rage.  He attended a Magnet School, with all the extra attention that entails, and my wife and I had many meetings with his teachers and the school administrative staff.  The school district psychologist wanted to evaluate him, and my wife and I agreed and signed the necessary permissions.  I warned the psychologist that my son was a “pleaser”, and would wrap her around his little finger if she wasn’t careful.  She assured me that that wouldn’t happen.

A couple of weeks later we had another meeting to go over her evaluation, and he had indeed won her over.  But she said that he exhibited ADHD behavior, and his teacher at the time agreed.  My wife and I were asked if we would consider medication.  We agreed to discuss it with our son’s pediatrician.  He said that he was not against trying it, although he wasn’t in favor of pills for behavioral issues.  So we gave it a shot.  I forget the specific medication; it wasn’t Ritalin, but similar.

After about six or seven weeks, my son asked one evening if we could talk.  He asked if he could stop taking the pills.  I asked him for his reasoning, and he said, “I just don’t feel like me, and I don’t like not being myself.”  I reminded him that his behavior at school was what had started that particular chapter, and that if he stopped taking the pills, he would have to control his behavior on his own.  He agreed.  No more pills.

He still had some behavioral issues, and we still had some meetings with teachers and staff, but we also had an ace-in-the-hole.  He was a very high scorer on FCAT testing, always at or very nearly at the top of every category.  Magnet Schools are small schools, and one very good student can affect an entire class grade average.  His behavior was never abusive or destructive, and never bad enough to get him kicked out of the Magnet School.

 
 
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