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Escalating International Conflict

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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14 May 2018 11:28
 
unsmoked - 14 May 2018 09:51 AM

I can sense Iran and its nukes lurking in the background of Trump’s moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem . . . and all the rest of this hornet’s nest.

This was totally avoidable.  Same with Iran.  A beehive and a hornet’s nest.  Pulling out of the Iran Deal and insisting on moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, despite what foreign policy experts advised, means inching the States further out to sea and relinquishing its leadership role on the world stage.  At a certain point there’ll be no way of righting the ship.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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15 May 2018 12:53
 
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 11:28 AM
unsmoked - 14 May 2018 09:51 AM

I can sense Iran and its nukes lurking in the background of Trump’s moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem . . . and all the rest of this hornet’s nest.

This was totally avoidable.  Same with Iran.  A beehive and a hornet’s nest.  Pulling out of the Iran Deal and insisting on moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, despite what foreign policy experts advised, means inching the States further out to sea and relinquishing its leadership role on the world stage.  At a certain point there’ll be no way of righting the ship.

https://condenaststore.com/featured/you-are-americans-david-sipress.html  (inching the States further out to sea)

 
 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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08 June 2018 21:44
 
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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09 June 2018 10:34
 

Remember the days when a disinterested party, the Queen of Holland maybe, or the Prince of Monaco would be called in to settle boundary disputes etc.?  In this case, what would such an arbiter decide?  Could the two sides be persuaded to accept such a decision?  A vote in the U.N. General Assembly?

In this comic, the little girl is the U.N. General Assembly, and the father is Netanyahu.

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icehorse
 
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icehorse
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13 June 2018 07:39
 
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

 
 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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15 June 2018 15:58
 
icehorse - 13 June 2018 07:39 AM
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

More bs.  Also complete nonsense.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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15 June 2018 16:08
 
lynmc - 15 June 2018 03:58 PM
icehorse - 13 June 2018 07:39 AM
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

More bs.  Also complete nonsense.

Context is everything. You pick yours, and I pick mine.

 
 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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15 June 2018 23:17
 
icehorse - 15 June 2018 04:08 PM
lynmc - 15 June 2018 03:58 PM
icehorse - 13 June 2018 07:39 AM
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

More bs.  Also complete nonsense.

Context is everything. You pick yours, and I pick mine.

Your argument that the Palestinians “declared war” on Israel by writing the Hamas charter or voting in Hamas would be valid only if you start history when Hamas wrote the charter, and elide from history what happened before, i.e., the context, the Zionist declaration of intent to take Palestine away from Palestinians and the mass murders and terror they used to accomplish it.  Sorry, you don’t get to pick and chose “context,” the same as you don’t get to pick and choose when history starts.  Doing so is just bullshitting everyone.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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16 June 2018 07:35
 
lynmc - 15 June 2018 11:17 PM
icehorse - 15 June 2018 04:08 PM
lynmc - 15 June 2018 03:58 PM
icehorse - 13 June 2018 07:39 AM
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

More bs.  Also complete nonsense.

Context is everything. You pick yours, and I pick mine.

Your argument that the Palestinians “declared war” on Israel by writing the Hamas charter or voting in Hamas would be valid only if you start history when Hamas wrote the charter, and elide from history what happened before, i.e., the context, the Zionist declaration of intent to take Palestine away from Palestinians and the mass murders and terror they used to accomplish it.  Sorry, you don’t get to pick and chose “context,” the same as you don’t get to pick and choose when history starts.  Doing so is just bullshitting everyone.

The thing is lyn that you’re also picking a context, you’re just not acknowledging it. Let’s go in the other direction, perhaps we ought to give the entire region (Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, maybe Iran, maybe other areas?), back to Turkey. This was all Ottoman territory for 400 years up until about 100 years ago, correct?

In the interest of moving the debate along, I’m going to guess that you will disagree with the idea of giving it all back to Turkey. If that guess is correct, can you explain why? It seems to me that folks have a sort of intuitive statute of limitations in their brains that varies from situation to situation. We all pick a slice of time that we think is the “correct” slice of time. Few of us would agree that we should give the UK back to the Druids, but why is that? Isn’t that an arbitrary decision as well?

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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16 June 2018 11:25
 

If all else fails and a WMD exchange finally seems inevitable (nuclear, gas, or biological) here is my idea for a solution:

As soon as an Israeli baby is born it is adopted by a Palestinian family and as soon as a Palestinian baby is born it is adopted by an Israeli family.  Voila!  An exchange of babies instead of WMD’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Faith

 
 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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16 June 2018 13:24
 
unsmoked - 16 June 2018 11:25 AM

If all else fails and a WMD exchange finally seems inevitable (nuclear, gas, or biological) here is my idea for a solution:

As soon as an Israeli baby is born it is adopted by a Palestinian family and as soon as a Palestinian baby is born it is adopted by an Israeli family.  Voila!  An exchange of babies instead of WMD’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Faith

I liked that idea until I remembered that on one side of the conflict there are people who really, really believe that martyrdom is a fine idea.

 
 
lynmc
 
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lynmc
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17 June 2018 20:27
 
icehorse - 16 June 2018 07:35 AM
lynmc - 15 June 2018 11:17 PM
icehorse - 15 June 2018 04:08 PM
lynmc - 15 June 2018 03:58 PM
icehorse - 13 June 2018 07:39 AM
lynmc - 08 June 2018 09:44 PM
icehorse - 14 May 2018 08:02 AM
LadyJane - 14 May 2018 07:50 AM

How many times can people get buried under an avalanche of bullshit before they realize they’re being snowed?

It IS amazing isn’t it? People can read Hamas’s charter and pretend it should be disregarded. Shocking really.

Hamas’s charter was written 30-40 some years after Israel’s program of mass terror and murder aimed at Palestinians, for the purpose of creating a state (by eliminating the non-Jewish citizens) that was sufficiently Jewish to be called a “Jewish” state.  100 or so years after the Zionists declared their intent to take over Palestine from its indigenous non-Jewish people, by various means including use of discriminatory laws and regulations and denial of equal rights as well as violence.  The Hamas charter is the basis of your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel?  It’s obvious your claim that the Palestinians declared war on Israel is an avalanche of bullshit.

We could use your approach to also conclude that the Allies “invaded” France in 1944.

More bs.  Also complete nonsense.

Context is everything. You pick yours, and I pick mine.

Your argument that the Palestinians “declared war” on Israel by writing the Hamas charter or voting in Hamas would be valid only if you start history when Hamas wrote the charter, and elide from history what happened before, i.e., the context, the Zionist declaration of intent to take Palestine away from Palestinians and the mass murders and terror they used to accomplish it.  Sorry, you don’t get to pick and chose “context,” the same as you don’t get to pick and choose when history starts.  Doing so is just bullshitting everyone.

The thing is lyn that you’re also picking a context, you’re just not acknowledging it. Let’s go in the other direction, perhaps we ought to give the entire region (Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, maybe Iran, maybe other areas?), back to Turkey. This was all Ottoman territory for 400 years up until about 100 years ago, correct?

In the interest of moving the debate along, I’m going to guess that you will disagree with the idea of giving it all back to Turkey. If that guess is correct, can you explain why? It seems to me that folks have a sort of intuitive statute of limitations in their brains that varies from situation to situation. We all pick a slice of time that we think is the “correct” slice of time. Few of us would agree that we should give the UK back to the Druids, but why is that? Isn’t that an arbitrary decision as well?

It isn’t important which state is the sovereign or what you call it, it’s the rights of the people that matter.  So long as it allows all the people their rights (preferably democratic ones, but at the very least free speech, freedom of religion, etc), don’t commit mass murder against the indigenous people or institute ethnic supremacy I don’t care what the regime is called. 

No one thinks the druids should be given back the UK (even though there is no “druid” state and shouldn’t each religion have their own state, or at least, that’s the reason Zionists often for taking Palestine from the Palestinians - that there is no other Jewish state) because the descendants of the druids (to the extent they have them) already own the UK - having, of course, intermingled with other invading peoples and long ago adopted Christianity.  Either way, the present-day druids have as much “right” to mass murder and expel the indigenous Christians of the UK as the Zionist Jews did to commit mass murder and expel the indigenous Christians and Muslims of Palestine, that is, 0.  That being said, Zionist Jews (except maybe a tiny minority) aren’t even indigenous to Israel/Palestine, they were invading someone else’s land in order to deprive them of it.  At least the druids of Britain are largely indigenous to Britain (not that it matters, but they’re largely people whose forebears were Christian and who have re-adopted druidism in modern times), neither have they made an effort deprive most British of their right to live in Britain or practice Christianity there.

In fact, since the Ottomans instituted equal rights regardless of creed throughout their empire back around 1857 (not sure of the exact date), and no regime over historic Palestine (present-day Israel/Palestine) since the Ottoman one has had that policy, giving Israel/Palestine back to the Turks would be a significant improvement over the present Israeli rule.  At least Turkey has secularism written into it’s laws, while some of the implementation should probably change that’s still an improvement over Israeli law and policy which institute Jewish supremacy and encourage ethnic cleansing of the indigenous non-Jewish people.

 
icehorse
 
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icehorse
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18 June 2018 07:38
 

First, Jews have been inhabitants of that land for as long as anyone.
Second, your so-called “Palestinians” have also inhabited most of Jordan and parts of Egypt, why shouldn’t those two countries contribute to a Palestinian state?
Third, about 100 years ago the Brits did a horrible, horrible job of splitting up the Ottoman empire. Why is it that you seem to be fine with those actions?
Fourth, given historical habitation patterns, why don’t you think that Jordan IS the homeland of the Palestinians?
Fifth, given that Jews have lived on these lands for centuries, which piece of land do you think they should be granted.

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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18 June 2018 12:14
 
icehorse - 16 June 2018 01:24 PM
unsmoked - 16 June 2018 11:25 AM

If all else fails and a WMD exchange finally seems inevitable (nuclear, gas, or biological) here is my idea for a solution:

As soon as an Israeli baby is born it is adopted by a Palestinian family and as soon as a Palestinian baby is born it is adopted by an Israeli family.  Voila!  An exchange of babies instead of WMD’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Faith

I liked that idea until I remembered that on one side of the conflict there are people who really, really believe that martyrdom is a fine idea.

If Big Brother implemented this idea (Big Brother being an AI Super Intelligence in charge of world affairs and world peace and prosperity since 2025)  Would it help if children visited their biological parents once a year, so that Israeli parents could see their own kids as devoted Muslims, and Palestinian parents could see their own kids as died-in-the-wool Jews? 

Likely, AI Big Brother will have a better idea for eliminating this kind of enmity.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/artificial-intelligence-future-scenarios-180968403/

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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18 June 2018 15:27
 
lynmc - 17 June 2018 08:27 PM

It isn’t important which state is the sovereign or what you call it, it’s the rights of the people that matter.  So long as it allows all the people their rights (preferably democratic ones, but at the very least free speech, freedom of religion, etc), don’t commit mass murder against the indigenous people or institute ethnic supremacy I don’t care what the regime is called. 

No one thinks the druids should be given back the UK (even though there is no “druid” state and shouldn’t each religion have their own state, or at least, that’s the reason Zionists often for taking Palestine from the Palestinians - that there is no other Jewish state) because the descendants of the druids (to the extent they have them) already own the UK - having, of course, intermingled with other invading peoples and long ago adopted Christianity.  Either way, the present-day druids have as much “right” to mass murder and expel the indigenous Christians of the UK as the Zionist Jews did to commit mass murder and expel the indigenous Christians and Muslims of Palestine, that is, 0.  That being said, Zionist Jews (except maybe a tiny minority) aren’t even indigenous to Israel/Palestine, they were invading someone else’s land in order to deprive them of it.  At least the druids of Britain are largely indigenous to Britain (not that it matters, but they’re largely people whose forebears were Christian and who have re-adopted druidism in modern times), neither have they made an effort deprive most British of their right to live in Britain or practice Christianity there.

In fact, since the Ottomans instituted equal rights regardless of creed throughout their empire back around 1857 (not sure of the exact date), and no regime over historic Palestine (present-day Israel/Palestine) since the Ottoman one has had that policy, giving Israel/Palestine back to the Turks would be a significant improvement over the present Israeli rule.  At least Turkey has secularism written into it’s laws, while some of the implementation should probably change that’s still an improvement over Israeli law and policy which institute Jewish supremacy and encourage ethnic cleansing of the indigenous non-Jewish people.

Awesome.  Thank you for countering the revisionist history littering this thread.

 
 
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