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Trump and Duterte

 
unsmoked
 
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13 May 2018 10:22
 

Would Trump like to have the autocratic power of despots?  Why invite a mass murderer to the White House?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/03/think-twice-before-casually-comparing-duterte-and-trump/

quote:  “And then there’s the fact that the U.S. and Philippine presidents seem to speak for this historical moment, a time when liberal democratic values are in retreat and steamrolling populism is ascendant. They share a flexible attitude toward facts, a disdain for the press and a penchant for making wildly misogynistic remarks. They have also both praised dictators and authoritarians, past and present.”

“The problem is that grabby Trump-Duterte headlines are often used to make a point about U.S. politics in a way that diminishes Duterte’s domestic role, specifically his loud and persistent calls for the “slaughter” of suspected drug users — and the real-life killing that follows those calls.”

“Duterte campaigned for the presidency on a promise to “kill all” the country’s drug dealers and users. Since taking power last summer, thousands of people have indeed been killed, shot in late-night police raids with high death rates and few witnesses, or murdered by masked assassins, often after being named by police.”

At the end of the article, one reader comments:  “Duterte actually does what Trump would like to do if he could get away with it.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/05/11/she-was-the-enemy-of-philippine-president-duterte-and-her-fellow-judges-just-sacked-her/?utm_term=.f6f9f8fb73b4

quote:  Shortly after he was elected, Duterte said that when it comes to drug dealers, his “order is shoot to kill you.”

“I don’t care about human rights, you better believe me,” he said. He later threatened the same fate for activists who criticized his policies.

[ Edited: 13 May 2018 10:43 by unsmoked]
 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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13 May 2018 18:24
 

There’s that old saying about everything moving in cycles which makes me wonder if we’re moving back to a situation similar to what happened in the 1930s with the rise of fascism.

Perhaps it has to do with people being unable to deal with the accelerating rate of change? 

I was reading recently about the flight of Charles Lindbergh when he flew from New York to Paris. He accomplished this feat in 1927; not even a hundred years ago. I have a friend who was born the year of Lindbergh’s flight and she’s still alive and kicking at age 91. Just within her lifetime, the world has changed to the point where it is almost unrecognizable from the way it was when she was born.

Maybe in times of incessant change, people become afraid and pull back. They become more conservative wanting to slow or even stop the rate of change. They mythologize a time in the past that didn’t exist in the way they think it did. They become more religious. They blame others for their problems, (drug dealers, illegal immigrants). They limit their input of information to only the info they agree with and disregard everything else because contrary facts make them anxious. They want “strongmen” and dictators to step in and tell them what to do. It all about assuaging their fears.

This is happening not only in Philippines but also in Europe. Poland and Hungry and taking hard turns to the right. And of course, there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

 

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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14 May 2018 15:42
 
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

Maybe in times of incessant change, people become afraid and pull back. They become more conservative wanting to slow or even stop the rate of change. They mythologize a time in the past that didn’t exist in the way they think it did. They become more religious. They blame others for their problems, (drug dealers, illegal immigrants). They limit their input of information to only the info they agree with and disregard everything else because contrary facts make them anxious. They want “strongmen” and dictators to step in and tell them what to do. It all about assuaging their fears.

I don’t think overarching left-wing narratives are a legitimate substitute for actually asking people who support Duterte WHY they support him…..or imagining what type of situation it would take for you to support a man engaged in military dictatorship over the alternative (whatever that might be).  Do you know anyone in the Philippines?  Anyone who has family there?  Because if your narrative was really what’s at play here, that would suggest everyone who supports Duterte is either a useful idiot, a coward, or simply blind to some obvious truth which you are somehow able to discern from thousands of miles away (unless you actually live there, in which case I would have thought you’d have had something of substance to say about the situation).....

PEW:  Strong Filipino Support for Duterte

Social Weather Stations Poll (over time analysis)

I suppose you could claim that perhaps those numbers are inflated out of fear of political persecution?  If so, do you have any evidence of that or just a gut feeling from thousands of miles away?  Again, do you know anyone who lives there?  Anyone who has family there?  Those are the most recent polls I could find on popular support.

 

Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

And of course, there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

That’s quite an assertion - I presume you’ve talked to many Trump supporters about the idea of him becoming a dictator and must know many in real life who would like that?  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not engaging in mind-reading here…..

Besides that, it’s interesting you’re claiming to be “certain” what’s in Trump’s mind, but are only capable of “thinking” most of his base would be happy if he became a dictator.  Why does your apparent mind-reading ability extend to Trump, and not the millions of Americans who support him?

Is it possible that instead of the narrative you’re using to explain the recent right-ward turn in many countries, a more accurate one is that the left-wing has become incredibly intellectually lazy?

[ Edited: 14 May 2018 15:48 by Quadrewple]
 
 
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14 May 2018 17:17
 

No doubt there was a time in 1930s when Adolf Hitler was getting high approval ratings from the majority of Germans. Picking an “other” and blaming them to be the source of your problems, whether they are drug dealers or Jews, is the oldest trick in the book to tinpot dictators and megalomaniacs of all stripes.

Do you support summary executions of drug dealers or drug users in the Philippines? Is that something to be proud of and to support if you are Filipino?

As far as Trump goes, I think I made it clear that it was my personal opinion that he would jump at the chance to be dictator and that most of his supporters would applaud. I stand by this assertion. I believe that the core of Trump’s supporters are not rational people but following their emotions in the most tribal of ways. Trump has become the center of a cult of personality.

“Is it possible that instead of the narrative you’re using to explain the recent right-ward turn in many countries, a more accurate one is that the left-wing has become incredibly intellectually lazy?”

I don’t claim to represent the left or anyone else but myself. I recognize a tilt toward fascism when I see it, and I see it.  And I stand by my claim that it is all based on fear. Manipulating fearful people is the easiest thing to do — they line up and follow the leader just like a flock of sheep.

 
 
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14 May 2018 18:47
 

I’ve invited you to think outside the box you’re currently in, but I can’t make you .  It’s possible to want to uncover what would lead to such a high % of the population to accept “extrajudicial killings” without supporting said policy…..apparently it’s not possible for you though.

I do wonder, how would you be capable of stopping such a movement here if you don’t understand what created it there? 
Because you either have no knowledge of the situation over there or are holding out for some strange reason.  I wonder why you can’t see how your oversimplified narrative puts you in a passive position wherein you are incapable of persuading anyone who disagrees with you, because you have already decided they MUST be fools and/or cowards without even hashing out the issues.  The comments you’re making about Trump supporters I think prove your severe disconnection from reality.  I find myself wondering if you’ve even talked to a single Trump supporter in person…..

I don’t see how your position is fundamentally different from the stupid and/or cowardly right-wing archetype you describe in your initial post.  You may have a different enemy and a different goal…...but you definitely have the same aversion to facts.

 
 
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15 May 2018 12:27
 
Quadrewple - 14 May 2018 06:47 PM

I’ve invited you to think outside the box you’re currently in, but I can’t make you .  It’s possible to want to uncover what would lead to such a high % of the population to accept “extrajudicial killings” without supporting said policy…..apparently it’s not possible for you though.

I do wonder, how would you be capable of stopping such a movement here if you don’t understand what created it there? 
Because you either have no knowledge of the situation over there or are holding out for some strange reason.  I wonder why you can’t see how your oversimplified narrative puts you in a passive position wherein you are incapable of persuading anyone who disagrees with you, because you have already decided they MUST be fools and/or cowards without even hashing out the issues.  The comments you’re making about Trump supporters I think prove your severe disconnection from reality.  I find myself wondering if you’ve even talked to a single Trump supporter in person…..

I don’t see how your position is fundamentally different from the stupid and/or cowardly right-wing archetype you describe in your initial post.  You may have a different enemy and a different goal…...but you definitely have the same aversion to facts.

I’m willing to listen to you.

How are death squads in the Philippines a good thing? And if not a good thing, why do people find them acceptable?

 
 
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15 May 2018 12:28
 
Cheshire Cat - 14 May 2018 05:17 PM

No doubt there was a time in 1930s when Adolf Hitler was getting high approval ratings from the majority of Germans. Picking an “other” and blaming them to be the source of your problems, whether they are drug dealers or Jews, is the oldest trick in the book to tinpot dictators and megalomaniacs of all stripes.

Do you support summary executions of drug dealers or drug users in the Philippines? Is that something to be proud of and to support if you are Filipino?

As far as Trump goes, I think I made it clear that it was my personal opinion that he would jump at the chance to be dictator and that most of his supporters would applaud. I stand by this assertion. I believe that the core of Trump’s supporters are not rational people but following their emotions in the most tribal of ways. Trump has become the center of a cult of personality.

“Is it possible that instead of the narrative you’re using to explain the recent right-ward turn in many countries, a more accurate one is that the left-wing has become incredibly intellectually lazy?”

I don’t claim to represent the left or anyone else but myself. I recognize a tilt toward fascism when I see it, and I see it.  And I stand by my claim that it is all based on fear. Manipulating fearful people is the easiest thing to do — they line up and follow the leader just like a flock of sheep.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler

quote:  “To many liberal-minded Germans of the twenties, Hitler was a scary but ludicrous figure who did not seem to represent a serious threat.”

Cheshire:  I think you will find this article in the April 30 New Yorker very interesting.  It touches on many of the books written about Hitler, not just about the influence of American racism mentioned in the title.

As you say here, “Picking an “other” and blaming them to be the source of your problems, whether they are drug dealers or Jews, is the oldest trick in the book to tinpot dictators and megalomaniacs of all stripes.” -

It would never occur to Trump and his supporters that rampant consumerism and a carbon footprint 1000X greater than the average is a far greater menace to civilization than drug addicts and illegal immigrants.  It would be very easy for ecologists to show that if a small fraction of the world’s population lived like Trump, the planet’s ecosystems would collapse and there would be mass extinctions within a few years - within the lifetime of most people on this forum.

If things get to the point where Trump’s supporters start shooting drug addicts and drug dealers on the street, as Duterte’s police do in the Phlippines, I wonder if they’ll also execute Purdue Pharma executives and all the doctors who got people hooked on opioid painkillers?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/drug-companies-helped-drive-opioid-crisis

[ Edited: 15 May 2018 12:32 by unsmoked]
 
 
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16 May 2018 14:18
 
Cheshire Cat - 15 May 2018 12:27 PM

I’m willing to listen to you.

How are death squads in the Philippines a good thing? And if not a good thing, why do people find them acceptable?

I’m not in much of a position to educate you on this as I don’t live there.  I do have a friend whose dad was born in the Philippines and has family there, so I will ask him next time I see him why he thinks the people support it (not very often, but if the opportunity presents itself I will ask him).

My point is not that I know so much - I’m saying you don’t know anything about the situation.  If people are willing to accept “extrajudicial killings” that is clearly a response to fear about drug dealers.  You can assert that fear must be irrational, but you don’t actually know.  In some cases I’m sure it is, in some cases I’m sure it isn’t.  I do know there are plenty of places in the Philippines wherein the drug dealers run the streets, are extremely violent, and are in the pockets of the local police (most countries in the world have these areas, but the Philippines lack of development in many areas exacerbates this issue).

Note that I never said “extrajudicial killings” are the solution…..I’m saying that your flippant dismissal of the people who support him as idiots or cowards is an act of laziness.  Are you a police officer?  Have you ever put your life on the line to protect people from those who use violence without regard?

If the answer is no, then should be able to understand the position of people who are terrorized by drug dealers who might see Duterte as the lesser of two evils.  Even if you are a police officer, you know all too well it is completely unrealistic to expect the average person to take up that fight themselves.  There are children, elderly, people trying to raise families, people who simply don’t have the mental/physical makeup to accept that role.

This is why it is of utmost importance to NEVER ALLOW a place to fall into chaos….once it does, people will attempt to restore order, and as you well know those who are in this group cannot be relied on to police themselves.  I hope you’re intelligent enough to understand my point…...I’m not supporting “extrajudicial killings” - I’m saying it is a shitty situation without an obvious solution so why would it surprise you that a very subpar solution is being pursued?

___________________________________________________________________________________

As much as I think your comments on the Filipinos who support Duterte are flippant and lazy, they don’t compare to what you just said about Trump supporters.  It shouldn’t be hard at all for you to find a Trump supporter to talk to, so your ignorance on that front is infinitely less excusable.  I’ve talked to DOZENS of Trump supporters and not a single one wanted him to be a dictator…..is your sample size bigger than mine?  Am I to assume they’re all lying?  Or was that a provocative way of you saying that deep down everyone would at some level like their policies to be implemented via dictatorship?

There might even be truth to the last one, but it seems you intentionally didn’t phrase it that way.  And even if it is true, that raises a lot of questions about how much power the government should have over us in the first place (financial or otherwise).  Either way there are things implications to the things you’re saying which are worth discussing but you preclude that with your intellectual laziness when it comes to this.  Your comparison to Nazi Germany is also provocative, but I’m confident in saying you have no idea how similar that situation actually was to the situation in the Philippines.  What is the danger of someone answering honestly on a PEW poll in the Philippines?  You tell me…..you’re the one drawing the comparison.  If those approval polls are even CLOSE to accurate, we are left with two options - the Filipinos are by and large cowardly and ignorant (according to your narrative) or there is more to the situation than you understand.

And I know for an absolute fact there is more to support for Trump than you understand.

 
 
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17 May 2018 10:42
 
Quadrewple - 16 May 2018 02:18 PM

.

And I know for an absolute fact there is more to support for Trump than you understand.

Do you agree that Trump admires Duterte’s method of fighting the war against drug dealers and addicts?  Why else would Trump invite this man to the White House?  Do you agree that millions of people are addicted to heroin because of the opioid painkillers their doctor prescribed to them?  Do you agree that Purdue Pharma, the company that makes Oxycontin, deliberately downplayed the highly addictive nature of that drug because they were making billions of dollars on its sale?

If Duterte’s police are instructed to murder drug dealers and addicts on the street, doesn’t it follow that they would summarily execute the share holders of Purdue Pharma who are profiting handsomely on the opioid epidemic . . .  and murder the doctors who are causing millions of people to become addicts?

Please take one minute to glance at this article:  https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/1/30/16951316/opioid-epidemic-painkillers-west-virginia-shipments

quote:  “On one hand, you have the current stock of opioid users who are addicted; the people in this population need treatment or they will simply find other, potentially deadlier opioids to use if they lose access to prescribed painkillers. On the other hand, you have to stop new generations of potential drug users from accessing and misusing opioids, including painkillers.

Addressing these crises will, experts say, require tens of billions of dollars.”

 

[ Edited: 17 May 2018 10:47 by unsmoked]
 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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17 May 2018 15:28
 

Quadrewple,
I would start by saying that the people of the Philippines had no choice about whether or not they wanted death squads to clear their cities of drug dealers; Duterte took that role on himself and implemented it with relish. There are many poor countries in the world that have problems with drug dealers, crime and poverty. To their credit, they do not resort to death squads that murder people they consider undesirable, instead, they form task forces and specialized police branches that legally arrest and break up these drug cartels. This is following the rule of law, not violating it.

Duterte is a thug and murderer. He’s bragged about murdering people, and I mean personally murdering them. His death squads have not only murdered drug dealers but also street children, human rights activists and journalists. He has set himself above the rule of law.

I agree with you that fearful people will make desperate choices. I never said they were idiots or cowards; those are your words not mine. The Filipino people were under the dictatorship of Marcos for many years, perhaps after all those years they have acquiesced to being ruled by corrupt people. They shouldn’t. They deserve better than a murdering thug as their ruler.

As far as Trump goes, I do know people how voted for him, namely, my in-laws. They all vote Republican so they most likely voted for Trump. They are lovely people, but I make a point of not discussing politics with them. I don’t know how fanatical they are about Trump and I’d rather not know.

In political science there is a general rule which says that one third of the voters will always vote Democratic, one third will always vote Republican, and one third will go either way. It’s that middle third that determines the outcome of elections.

This middle third are not the ones I’m referring to when I say that some people would embrace Trump becoming our dictator; it the far right third of voters that I think would approve.

Trump once said: “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” I think he was only slightly exaggerating. I believe his hardcore base will support him no matter what. And, as I said before, this is because of a mix of tribalism and fear. Trump could be found to have colluded with the Russians to get elected, to owe hundreds of millions to Russian oligarchs, and to be found guilty of treason and corruption, but to his base he will be bulletproof.
And granted, I cannot prove this. But I don’t think it would be that hard to find out. All it would take is a reputable polling organization such as Gallup, to ask voters a simple question:

Would you be in favor of extending Trump’s presidency indefinitely, until America is on the right track?

I would love to see the results.

 
 
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18 May 2018 11:51
 
Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

Quadrewple,
I would start by saying that the people of the Philippines had no choice about whether or not they wanted death squads to clear their cities of drug dealers; Duterte took that role on himself and implemented it with relish. There are many poor countries in the world that have problems with drug dealers, crime and poverty. To their credit, they do not resort to death squads that murder people they consider undesirable, instead, they form task forces and specialized police branches that legally arrest and break up these drug cartels. This is following the rule of law, not violating it.

Yes I understand all that, but you’re only analyzing the issue this deeply (in print) after me bringing up that your initial post was purely ideological.  The problem with a lot of these “Trump Dump” threads is it ends up being an intellectual circle jerk unless someone who disagrees comes in.  That’s actually generally the problem with people who already share the same conclusions - not specific to this section of the forum or the left or right.

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

Duterte is a thug and murderer. He’s bragged about murdering people, and I mean personally murdering them. His death squads have not only murdered drug dealers but also street children, human rights activists and journalists. He has set himself above the rule of law.

I understand that also.

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

I agree with you that fearful people will make desperate choices. I never said they were idiots or cowards; those are your words not mine.

Yes, I’m glad you agree but again - my beef was with your initial post, which only went as deep as to imply that cowardice and stupidity is to blame for people like Trump and Duterte (who really don’t share many similarities as people or in terms of ideology as far as I see it).

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

The Filipino people were under the dictatorship of Marcos for many years, perhaps after all those years they have acquiesced to being ruled by corrupt people. They shouldn’t. They deserve better than a murdering thug as their ruler.

Of course - everyone does.  At this point we’re left to wonder so many people would accept that…..seeing as how you seem to be more worried about the Trump phenomenon than me and you see some similarities between Duterte’s rise and his, that’s more of your issue to grapple with.

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

As far as Trump goes, I do know people how voted for him, namely, my in-laws. They all vote Republican so they most likely voted for Trump. They are lovely people, but I make a point of not discussing politics with them. I don’t know how fanatical they are about Trump and I’d rather not know.

Okay, so what makes you in any way qualified to say the things you initially said about Trump supporters?  I’m far more interested in that than anything about Duterte…..

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

This middle third are not the ones I’m referring to when I say that some people would embrace Trump becoming our dictator; it the far right third of voters that I think would approve.

Okay, so you seem to be invoking the argument I suggested you may have thought (but chose not to articulate) - at some level everyone wishes their side would gain power and keep it indefinitely, even without a democratic process.

So would those 1/3 of voters to left have embraced Obama becoming our dictator, in your estimation?

Because if your answer is yes, your initial statement was a clear demonstration of tribal partisanship, wherein you reduce universal human traits to a left/right issue (depending on which one demonizes the side you’re not on).

If your answer is no, then why?

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

Trump once said: “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” I think he was only slightly exaggerating. I believe his hardcore base will support him no matter what.

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

Trump could be found to have colluded with the Russians to get elected, to owe hundreds of millions to Russian oligarchs, and to be found guilty of treason and corruption, but to his base he will be bulletproof.
And granted, I cannot prove this.

Yes, and such unfalsifiable statements are equally pointless whether you direct them at Republicans or Democrats.  “Obama could have been found to be a child rapist and he would remain bulletproof to his base.”  - see how persuasive that is?  “But Obama was never accused of being a child rapist by people who I consider credible!” 

Exactly my point…....

Cheshire Cat - 17 May 2018 03:28 PM

But I don’t think it would be that hard to find out. All it would take is a reputable polling organization such as Gallup, to ask voters a simple question:

Would you be in favor of extending Trump’s presidency indefinitely, until America is on the right track?

I have already addressed that many people at least in theory would love their side to maintain power regardless of democratic mandate.  You haven’t demonstrated that is a left vs right issue in any way, shape, or form.

By the way, my answer to that poll would be absolutely not.  Any time you disregard rules for short-term political convenience, you open the door for the other side to do the same and for the pendulum to gain even more momentum when it inevitably swings back against you.

 
 
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20 May 2018 12:13
 
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

. . . there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

Here’s a Trump quote from the April 2 issue of TIME magazine:

“If we don’t get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time . . . That toughness includes the death penalty.” - Donald Trump calling for harsher sentences for opioid dealers in a speech in New Hampshire, one of the states hardest hit by the opioid epidemic.”  -  (end TIME quote)

Purdue Pharma and the doctors who prescribed their opioid painkillers have clearly caused millions of ordinary citizens to become heroin addicts.

quote:  “U.S. state lawsuits against Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic mount.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Litigation against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP is intensifying as six more U.S. states on Tuesday announced lawsuits, accusing the company of fueling a national opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing its prescription painkillers to generate billions of dollars in sales.

quote: 

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

Unsmoked comments:  About ten years ago I even had a dentist who prescribed a bottle OxyContin after an extraction.  A friend said, “Wow!  Do you know the street value of those?”  Luckily I didn’t take any, or let anyone have them.

P.S.  - I included news articles from Reuters and the LA TIMES in this post but found that this caused my post to be ‘blacklisted’ and I couldn’t send it.  Anyone else have problems trying to post articles about certain subjects?  What’s being blacklisted?

[ Edited: 20 May 2018 12:23 by unsmoked]
 
 
GAD
 
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20 May 2018 15:10
 
unsmoked - 20 May 2018 12:13 PM
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

. . . there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

Here’s a Trump quote from the April 2 issue of TIME magazine:

“If we don’t get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time . . . That toughness includes the death penalty.” - Donald Trump calling for harsher sentences for opioid dealers in a speech in New Hampshire, one of the states hardest hit by the opioid epidemic.”  -  (end TIME quote)

Purdue Pharma and the doctors who prescribed their opioid painkillers have clearly caused millions of ordinary citizens to become heroin addicts.

quote:  “U.S. state lawsuits against Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic mount.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Litigation against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP is intensifying as six more U.S. states on Tuesday announced lawsuits, accusing the company of fueling a national opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing its prescription painkillers to generate billions of dollars in sales.

quote: 

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

Unsmoked comments:  About ten years ago I even had a dentist who prescribed a bottle OxyContin after an extraction.  A friend said, “Wow!  Do you know the street value of those?”  Luckily I didn’t take any, or let anyone have them.

P.S.  - I included news articles from Reuters and the LA TIMES in this post but found that this caused my post to be ‘blacklisted’ and I couldn’t send it.  Anyone else have problems trying to post articles about certain subjects?  What’s being blacklisted?

That is nothing but pure propaganda bullshit designed to fuel another pointless self-righteous war on drugs. 

 
 
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21 May 2018 11:15
 
GAD - 20 May 2018 03:10 PM
unsmoked - 20 May 2018 12:13 PM
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

. . . there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

Here’s a Trump quote from the April 2 issue of TIME magazine:

“If we don’t get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time . . . That toughness includes the death penalty.” - Donald Trump calling for harsher sentences for opioid dealers in a speech in New Hampshire, one of the states hardest hit by the opioid epidemic.”  -  (end TIME quote)

Purdue Pharma and the doctors who prescribed their opioid painkillers have clearly caused millions of ordinary citizens to become heroin addicts.

quote:  “U.S. state lawsuits against Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic mount.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Litigation against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP is intensifying as six more U.S. states on Tuesday announced lawsuits, accusing the company of fueling a national opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing its prescription painkillers to generate billions of dollars in sales.

quote: 

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

Unsmoked comments:  About ten years ago I even had a dentist who prescribed a bottle OxyContin after an extraction.  A friend said, “Wow!  Do you know the street value of those?”  Luckily I didn’t take any, or let anyone have them.

P.S.  - I included news articles from Reuters and the LA TIMES in this post but found that this caused my post to be ‘blacklisted’ and I couldn’t send it.  Anyone else have problems trying to post articles about certain subjects?  What’s being blacklisted?

That is nothing but pure propaganda bullshit designed to fuel another pointless self-righteous war on drugs.

Are you talking about Trump’s and Duterte’s final solution or the various states attorneys suing Purdue Pharma?

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  16543
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
21 May 2018 18:38
 
unsmoked - 21 May 2018 11:15 AM
GAD - 20 May 2018 03:10 PM
unsmoked - 20 May 2018 12:13 PM
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

. . . there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

Here’s a Trump quote from the April 2 issue of TIME magazine:

“If we don’t get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time . . . That toughness includes the death penalty.” - Donald Trump calling for harsher sentences for opioid dealers in a speech in New Hampshire, one of the states hardest hit by the opioid epidemic.”  -  (end TIME quote)

Purdue Pharma and the doctors who prescribed their opioid painkillers have clearly caused millions of ordinary citizens to become heroin addicts.

quote:  “U.S. state lawsuits against Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic mount.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Litigation against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP is intensifying as six more U.S. states on Tuesday announced lawsuits, accusing the company of fueling a national opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing its prescription painkillers to generate billions of dollars in sales.

quote: 

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

Unsmoked comments:  About ten years ago I even had a dentist who prescribed a bottle OxyContin after an extraction.  A friend said, “Wow!  Do you know the street value of those?”  Luckily I didn’t take any, or let anyone have them.

P.S.  - I included news articles from Reuters and the LA TIMES in this post but found that this caused my post to be ‘blacklisted’ and I couldn’t send it.  Anyone else have problems trying to post articles about certain subjects?  What’s being blacklisted?

That is nothing but pure propaganda bullshit designed to fuel another pointless self-righteous war on drugs.

Are you talking about Trump’s and Duterte’s final solution or the various states attorneys suing Purdue Pharma?

All of it. I’m OK with death for illegal drug dealers but all drugs should be legal and people held responsible for how they use them.

 
 
unsmoked
 
Avatar
 
 
unsmoked
Total Posts:  7880
Joined  20-02-2006
 
 
 
22 May 2018 10:23
 
GAD - 21 May 2018 06:38 PM
unsmoked - 21 May 2018 11:15 AM
GAD - 20 May 2018 03:10 PM
unsmoked - 20 May 2018 12:13 PM
Cheshire Cat - 13 May 2018 06:24 PM

. . . there’s Trump. I’m certain he would love to be dictator if he could manage it and I think most of his base would be happy if he did.

Trump and Duterte; two men with easy answers for a frightened populace.

Here’s a Trump quote from the April 2 issue of TIME magazine:

“If we don’t get tough on the drug dealers, we are wasting our time . . . That toughness includes the death penalty.” - Donald Trump calling for harsher sentences for opioid dealers in a speech in New Hampshire, one of the states hardest hit by the opioid epidemic.”  -  (end TIME quote)

Purdue Pharma and the doctors who prescribed their opioid painkillers have clearly caused millions of ordinary citizens to become heroin addicts.

quote:  “U.S. state lawsuits against Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic mount.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Litigation against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP is intensifying as six more U.S. states on Tuesday announced lawsuits, accusing the company of fueling a national opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing its prescription painkillers to generate billions of dollars in sales.

quote: 

OxyContin’s main selling point is that it lasts 12 hours. The Times investigation published this month found that when the effects don’t last, patients can suffer symptoms of narcotic withdrawal, including intense craving for the drug, and experience a cycle of agony and relief that experts say promotes addiction.

Unsmoked comments:  About ten years ago I even had a dentist who prescribed a bottle OxyContin after an extraction.  A friend said, “Wow!  Do you know the street value of those?”  Luckily I didn’t take any, or let anyone have them.

P.S.  - I included news articles from Reuters and the LA TIMES in this post but found that this caused my post to be ‘blacklisted’ and I couldn’t send it.  Anyone else have problems trying to post articles about certain subjects?  What’s being blacklisted?

That is nothing but pure propaganda bullshit designed to fuel another pointless self-righteous war on drugs.

Are you talking about Trump’s and Duterte’s final solution or the various states attorneys suing Purdue Pharma?

All of it. I’m OK with death for illegal drug dealers but all drugs should be legal and people held responsible for how they use them.

Suppose you have an operation and when you’re released from the hospital the doctor gives you a prescription for 50 Oxicontin to be taken to relieve pain.  Trusting the doctor, you take them as prescribed.  When you finish the 50 you realize that you’ve got to have more and you tell the doctor you’re still in pain. The doctor, assured by the manufacturer (Purdue Pharma) that this product isn’t addictive, prescribes more thinking you are still in pain.  When those are gone you realize that you are in withdrawal and that you are now an opium (heroin) addict. 

NBC News last night reported about the lawyer who sued Big Tobacco now suing Purdue Pharma for claiming that their product was non-addictive,but when I include the link here and click SUBMIT, I get a notice saying my post is ‘blacklisted’.  What is going on here? 

quote from the NBC report:  “Opioid addition in the U.S. has increased sixfold since 1999 and overdoses now claim more than 115 lives every day, according to National Institute on Drug Abuse research. About 75 percent of those who began abusing opioids in the 2000s reported that they started on prescription drugs.”

 
 
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