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The Dirty Little Secret

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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05 July 2018 09:38
 
hannahtoo - 05 July 2018 08:41 AM


OK, I see what you’re saying about both sides. 

Critical thinking skills is a recognized parameter, though your explanation for the underlying process is unique.

That’s right, though I would cite critical thinking as a barely defined and sweepingly generalized parameter.

In mentioning that the top tier thinkers will revel in the benefits of Type B societies, wealth and success (or fatties) were not intended to be included. The intended context is that we revel in and benefit from free and unhampered critical thinking and the open minded discussions made possible when we revel together.

In trioon terms, open-minded means thinking that proceeds as much as necessary to perceive the subject before making a conclusion. Closed-minded means thinking that has to stop soon and must grab the first conclusion-like perception it can find.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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05 July 2018 09:40
 
nonverbal - 05 July 2018 09:27 AM

Stupidity is a taboo subject to a point where use of the word itself sets the speaker apart as being perhaps questionable. I remember being a member of a jury in which it quickly became obvious that 2 fellow members were intellectually impaired, and openly admitted to me that they’d vote the way I’d vote simply because they’d been unable to understand what was going on. I’ll bet others were present who also had no idea what was going on, but were able to somewhat successfully pretend to be sufficiently competent. After a couple of hours of back-and-forth arguing, a jury member who’d previously identified himself as a Today Show producer suddenly announced with strength of conviction in his voice, “Of course they’re guilty—it’s obvious—why are we even talking about it?!”, paraphrasing him now, 30 years later. After hearing his confident opinion, the game was over. Our next vote convicted both men of pickpocketing.

Almost no one is nearly as intellectually capable—or moderately sane either, for that matter—as we assume ourselves to be, in my opinion.

Sorry I page-rolled this so quickly.

This is what I’m referring to. That assumption, and the choice to have made it, is the secret.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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05 July 2018 09:42
 
Nhoj Morley - 04 July 2018 11:20 PM
EN - 04 July 2018 09:52 AM


Are those the only choices?  I realize we are in Trioonland now, but the modern world is a smorgasbord of fusion narratives. Mix and match, pick and choose.  Just go to the store and try to choose a toothpaste.  It’s not just Crest or Colgate.  But I suppose it’s a useful mental exercise to at least be able to pick out the influences trying to inhabit and take over your story.

Options A and B are the current fork in the road like always. If there is a further choice, few have ever seen it.

Your use of pasty metaphors is a tangent well outside of trioon’s jurisdiction this time, Counselor. We’ve spoken. You narrate easily and can likely follow anything you need to as far as necessary. Get smashed and try to follow something complicated. Then imagine you were like that when stone sober about anything other than legal work. Then imagine there is nothing you can do about it except fake your way through everything else. Would you tell anyone?

It is so difficult to find anyone with which to have a deep, non-ideological, thoughtful, open, honest, imaginative, no-one-liner conversation that I have basically given up.  The best way is to have a conversation with myself, which is the height of entertainment for me - wherever I am in the world.  Too much effort is required to bring any other brain into the conversation.  I’m perfectly satisfied with my own nyeep pool, my own bridge, and my own flashlight.

There are many interesting brains here, but typing at a distance of thousands of miles is not as interesting as face-to-face discussion.  The cyber world will never replace human contact.

[ Edited: 05 July 2018 09:54 by EN]
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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05 July 2018 11:41
 
EN - 05 July 2018 09:42 AM
Nhoj Morley - 04 July 2018 11:20 PM
EN - 04 July 2018 09:52 AM


Are those the only choices?  I realize we are in Trioonland now, but the modern world is a smorgasbord of fusion narratives. Mix and match, pick and choose.  Just go to the store and try to choose a toothpaste.  It’s not just Crest or Colgate.  But I suppose it’s a useful mental exercise to at least be able to pick out the influences trying to inhabit and take over your story.

Options A and B are the current fork in the road like always. If there is a further choice, few have ever seen it.

Your use of pasty metaphors is a tangent well outside of trioon’s jurisdiction this time, Counselor. We’ve spoken. You narrate easily and can likely follow anything you need to as far as necessary. Get smashed and try to follow something complicated. Then imagine you were like that when stone sober about anything other than legal work. Then imagine there is nothing you can do about it except fake your way through everything else. Would you tell anyone?

It is so difficult to find anyone with which to have a deep, non-ideological, thoughtful, open, honest, imaginative, no-one-liner conversation that I have basically given up.  The best way is to have a conversation with myself, which is the height of entertainment for me - wherever I am in the world.  Too much effort is required to bring any other brain into the conversation.  I’m perfectly satisfied with my own nyeep pool, my own bridge, and my own flashlight.

There are many interesting brains here, but typing at a distance of thousands of miles is not as interesting as face-to-face discussion.  The cyber world will never replace human contact.

Maybe you can think of these internet conversations as the updated version of the intellectual correspondences, via mail, of the previous centuries.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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05 July 2018 11:52
 

We are bombarded daily by information, both true and false, both forthright and manipulative, both objective and subjective.

With such an overload of data and the lack of time to sort through all of it, most of us have to use short cuts to make a narrative and framework with which to determine what is true and what isn’t. In other words, we use this information to construct our own mental model of reality.

These short cuts involve accepting that other people have already done the step-by-step sifting of data — that they have already verified what is true and what isn’t — and we lean on their conclusions to add to our mental model of reality, without having done the actual steps ourselves.

This select group of people that we choose to do these mental short cuts for us, are people we select due to our own emotional proclivities, because of their impressive personalities, because they confirm our biases, or any number of other reasons.

However, most of us don’t realize that this is the way we construct our mental models. We think that our mental models are more rigorous and vetted than they really are.

Is this the secret?

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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06 July 2018 21:59
 
Cheshire Cat - 05 July 2018 11:52 AM


Is this the secret?

The secret is a cover up for shortcomings in the performance of only one specific brain-task. The demands on this ability and frustration with its limitations increases with one’s involvement with scientific pursuits, democratic systems, jobs requiring critical thinking or just keeping a decent summary of the overload of data.

I would not dismiss the trust of experts as a shortcut. In doing my job, I trust I am providing a similar shortcut to warehouse designers when they need to know how many blazing lamps they’ll need to legally use motorized hi-lo’s. We maintain just enough overall trust to be able to share expertise. I fine with standing on the shoulders of folks of average height. I should remember to make mine available. It shouldn’t be abused as a shortcut. It is a valuable social institution that the current climate threatens.

Trump and the whole Team of Bigly Despots encourage the atrophying of this brain-task in the general public because the dependable result is that, on the whole, they will want and support a Type A authoritarian system. They will believe it is their best choice for Freedom. Success is guaranteed because, in trumpworld (which rides through space on the back of a golden unicorn), the only assured freedom is from facing one’s own secret. Treat folks like children, starve their minds of the narrative brain-task, and in time they will be as children flocking around their shepherd. They have been denied the chance to have their own.

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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07 July 2018 06:48
 

I am wondering if the limit to cognition is really a “dirty” secret.  Or just a fact to accept.  After all, wasn’t it a simplistic slogan of “peace” in the minds of millions of Americans that got the US out of Vietnam?  Behind a war may be the long-train connivers who are after world domination, or illicit gain from sales of arms and fuel.  Could it be that what the world needs now is more critically thinking leaders who have humanitarian aims?  People who can put positive goals into simple terms for the less agile thinkers to latch onto?

All we are saying is “give peace a chance…”

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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07 July 2018 22:07
 
hannahtoo - 07 July 2018 06:48 AM

I am wondering if the limit to cognition is really a “dirty” secret.  Or just a fact to accept.  After all, wasn’t it a simplistic slogan of “peace” in the minds of millions of Americans that got the US out of Vietnam?  Behind a war may be the long-train connivers who are after world domination, or illicit gain from sales of arms and fuel.  Could it be that what the world needs now is more critically thinking leaders who have humanitarian aims?  People who can put positive goals into simple terms for the less agile thinkers to latch onto?

All we are saying is “give peace a chance…”


If a society makes no demands of its citizens, then there will be no secret to keep. It only occurs if the demands a society places on its citizens exceed the mean average of the public’s critical thinking stamina. That only starts when a growing preponderence of citizens live lives that cause them to advance on the scale. That can be caused by schooling or just growing up with a science kit or a Lionel train set. They want a society as broad as their perception. They may gather in Philadelphia and start one. That is how the divide gets started in politics.

Citizens on the other end of the scale won’t need to gather in Philadelphia. That’s why they have guns. If they use them, then they do not have to face the shameful secret when society becomes beyond their perception.

This was our gag way back when…

“But all he saying is give peace a chance. Is that supposed to mean something? Like being still and quiet? For how long? Then what? More peace? Why? How does it work? Is there someone else we could talk to?”

It is funnier if clapping and chanting like the song.

To a thinking person who concludes that the war was a bad idea, songs like that can loosely symbolize their conclusion. For others. it is different. John Lennon took expensive drugs and has been to an ashram or something. He know more than I. If he thinks it is a good idea, I will too.

It is a weird feedback loop. A thoughtful songwriter like Mr. Lennon, who realizes that he is not the Second Coming or better than Jesus, may decide that, despite the drugs, he does not know how to end the Viet Nam War. He does know that public sentiment can encourage and enable the efforts of those who do know how. By putting the general idea on the public table via pop on the radio, he may contribute to making the public’s sentiment more visible.

If that whole explanation was in the song, no one would get it. A pop song’s foundational concept should be short, punchy and loosely defined like, “I want to mate in my car” and such. An actual procedure for ending the Viet Nam War would lose many of its details in a pop song.

As a Type B aspirant, Mr. Lennon probably hoped his song would get people thinking. This was only true for other Type B aspirants like himself. Others said, “Thanks, John, now I don’t have to think!”

At about twenty minutes into The Boss’s new podcast, Masha Gessen describes how there is no role for public opinion in Russia and hence no public opinion. The Boss is gobsmacked. Cynical, top-scale Ruskies train to follow the right cues for survival. The rest are not inconvenienced. Leave the long thoughts to Putin.

One the whole, the one-world, human-rights humanitarian crowd are upper-scale folks who have the stamina to see beyond tribe, caste or the heebie-jeebies.

 

 
 
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