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Advice Request re Philosophy Reading

 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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19 August 2018 15:57
 
GAD - 19 August 2018 03:34 PM
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 01:27 PM
GAD - 03 August 2018 08:53 AM

If you have a lot of time to kill

https://www.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0671201581

Well, this was the first book of my order to arrive ... and you weren’t kidding, GAD – 895 pages!

I’m only up to page 60; thankfully it’s not difficult reading.

 

Yea, philosophers like to talk so there is a lot of history. It’s like the bible, only interesting and it makes sense. Took me 6mos to finish.

Bertrand Russell makes sense? Goy vey.

Christians don’t make the best philosophers. Not unlike psychologists, their fixation on the mythology of the Garden blinds all “men of conviction,” so that they will almost invariably lose the ability to extricate cause from effect.

If you want Philosophy minus the magical thinking, I’d still suggest the [French] Existentialists.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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19 August 2018 16:52
 
GAD - 19 August 2018 03:34 PM
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 01:27 PM
GAD - 03 August 2018 08:53 AM

If you have a lot of time to kill

https://www.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0671201581

Well, this was the first book of my order to arrive ... and you weren’t kidding, GAD – 895 pages!

I’m only up to page 60; thankfully it’s not difficult reading.

 

Yea, philosophers like to talk so there is a lot of history. It’s like the bible, only interesting and it makes sense. Took me 6mos to finish.

Well then, I’m going to be busy for a while then; I ordered several other books too.  Yes, it is interesting and I haven’t even got to the big names yet.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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19 August 2018 16:55
 
ubique13 - 19 August 2018 03:57 PM
GAD - 19 August 2018 03:34 PM
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 01:27 PM
GAD - 03 August 2018 08:53 AM

If you have a lot of time to kill

https://www.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0671201581

Well, this was the first book of my order to arrive ... and you weren’t kidding, GAD – 895 pages!

I’m only up to page 60; thankfully it’s not difficult reading.

 

Yea, philosophers like to talk so there is a lot of history. It’s like the bible, only interesting and it makes sense. Took me 6mos to finish.

Bertrand Russell makes sense? Goy vey.

Christians don’t make the best philosophers. Not unlike psychologists, their fixation on the mythology of the Garden blinds all “men of conviction,” so that they will almost invariably lose the ability to extricate cause from effect.

If you want Philosophy minus the magical thinking, I’d still suggest the [French] Existentialists.

But aren’t the Existentialists depressing? ... and EN warned me about them.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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19 August 2018 17:27
 
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 04:55 PM

But aren’t the Existentialists depressing? ... and EN warned me about them.

I’ve heard the claim that Existentialism is depressing, but I’ve also faced depression at times. To my mind, it is ineffably liberating to embrace temporality, and with it the entire gamut of human emotion and experience.

Our modern societal construct of ‘morality’ is completely anachronistic. It is through ethical action that we can find actualization, not some fairy tales about “the moral of the story.”

Nietzsche’s concept of the revaluation of all human values depicts a manner of living which would have been in closer accord to how Jesus is widely depicted, as a champion of all mankind, and not a select few. Hospitality towards the stranger is among the paramount considerations, and is essentially the core of the “Golden Rule.”

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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19 August 2018 17:55
 
ubique13 - 19 August 2018 05:27 PM
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 04:55 PM

But aren’t the Existentialists depressing? ... and EN warned me about them.

I’ve heard the claim that Existentialism is depressing, but I’ve also faced depression at times. To my mind, it is ineffably liberating to embrace temporality, and with it the entire gamut of human emotion and experience.

Our modern societal construct of ‘morality’ is completely anachronistic. It is through ethical action that we can find actualization, not some fairy tales about “the moral of the story.”

Nietzsche’s concept of the revaluation of all human values depicts a manner of living which would have been in closer accord to how Jesus is widely depicted, as a champion of all mankind, and not a select few. Hospitality towards the stranger is among the paramount considerations, and is essentially the core of the “Golden Rule.”

Thanks.  It does seem that reading Nietzsche would be interesting and important in the study of philosophy and should be included.  I will definitely keep this in mind for future reading.

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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19 August 2018 18:28
 
Jan_CAN - 19 August 2018 05:55 PM

Thanks.  It does seem that reading Nietzsche would be interesting and important in the study of philosophy and should be included.  I will definitely keep this in mind for future reading.

It’s really pretty disgraceful how Nietzsche’s historical significance is portrayed. Much of his work can be pretty heavy, and he was profoundly misanthropic, but there are few philosophers who possessed his gift for the prosaic (or his bizarrely prescient understanding of the issues facing modern man).

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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21 August 2018 10:10
 
GAD - 12 August 2018 06:42 PM

Good luck! Will be interesting to see what you come out of the cave with.

Well, I’m now up to Chapter XIV, where Russell describes Plato’s simile of the cave, so now more fully understand your comment.

... those who are destitute of philosophy may be compared to prisoners in a cave, who are only able to look in one direction because they are bound ... all that they see are shadows of themselves ... Inevitably they regard these shadows as real, and have no notion of the objects to which they are due ...

So now I’m thinking that, even if I don’t gain any profound philosophical insights from my reading, I’ll at least be able to understand some ‘in’-comments around here.  ;-)

 

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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21 August 2018 10:18
 
Jan_CAN - 21 August 2018 10:10 AM

So now I’m thinking that, even if I don’t gain any profound philosophical insights from my reading, I’ll at least be able to understand some ‘in’-comments around here.  wink

‘The Allegory of the Cave’/Theory of Form really isn’t that dissimilar from DeCartes’ description of Skepticism. All that any of us can ever reasonably claim to know is ‘cogito ergo sum’. Therein lies the problem of Solipsism.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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21 August 2018 19:28
 
burt - 02 August 2018 10:37 PM

Just a suggestion, but Plato’s Symposium might be a good start. Think of it as a play with various characters.

The rest of my book order arrived, including “The Symposium of Plato”.  One minor problem—it’s in Greek (with English notes).  In the book description it said Language: English.

 

 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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21 August 2018 19:41
 
Jan_CAN - 21 August 2018 07:28 PM
burt - 02 August 2018 10:37 PM

Just a suggestion, but Plato’s Symposium might be a good start. Think of it as a play with various characters.

The rest of my book order arrived, including “The Symposium of Plato”.  One minor problem—it’s in Greek (with English notes).  In the book description it said Language: English.

 

“It’s all Greek to me” had to come from somewhere, right? zipper

Sartre’s novel ‘Nausea’ (which he won the Nobel Prize for Literature for writing, and declined) and Camus’ novel ‘The Stranger’ are probably the most direct routes to where I suspect you’re inevitably going to be headed, and both were written with the added luxury of being meant for people living in the twentieth century.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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21 August 2018 20:04
 
ubique13 - 21 August 2018 07:41 PM
Jan_CAN - 21 August 2018 07:28 PM
burt - 02 August 2018 10:37 PM

Just a suggestion, but Plato’s Symposium might be a good start. Think of it as a play with various characters.

The rest of my book order arrived, including “The Symposium of Plato”.  One minor problem—it’s in Greek (with English notes).  In the book description it said Language: English.

“It’s all Greek to me” had to come from somewhere, right? :zip:

Sartre’s novel ‘Nausea’ (which he won the Nobel Prize for Literature for writing, and declined) and Camus’ novel ‘The Stranger’ are probably the most direct routes to where I suspect you’re inevitably going to be headed, and both were written with the added luxury of being meant for people living in the twentieth century.

Yeah, just hoping some of the English doesn’t also seem Greek to me, but so far so good.  ;-)

I had thought to start with the ancients because I also like reading history, but not willing to go so far as to learn Greek, haha.

Thanks for the recommendations and links.  I haven’t read either of these; only Camus’ ‘The Plague’.

 

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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21 August 2018 20:07
 
Jan_CAN - 21 August 2018 10:10 AM
GAD - 12 August 2018 06:42 PM

Good luck! Will be interesting to see what you come out of the cave with.

Well, I’m now up to Chapter XIV, where Russell describes Plato’s simile of the cave, so now more fully understand your comment.

... those who are destitute of philosophy may be compared to prisoners in a cave, who are only able to look in one direction because they are bound ... all that they see are shadows of themselves ... Inevitably they regard these shadows as real, and have no notion of the objects to which they are due ...

So now I’m thinking that, even if I don’t gain any profound philosophical insights from my reading, I’ll at least be able to understand some ‘in’-comments around here.  wink

It’s a popular cave, philosophers have been going there to party for 2500 years. And now that you’ve been you’ll be able to see that “white privilege” is just a shadow on the wall smile

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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21 August 2018 20:19
 
GAD - 21 August 2018 08:07 PM
Jan_CAN - 21 August 2018 10:10 AM
GAD - 12 August 2018 06:42 PM

Good luck! Will be interesting to see what you come out of the cave with.

Well, I’m now up to Chapter XIV, where Russell describes Plato’s simile of the cave, so now more fully understand your comment.

... those who are destitute of philosophy may be compared to prisoners in a cave, who are only able to look in one direction because they are bound ... all that they see are shadows of themselves ... Inevitably they regard these shadows as real, and have no notion of the objects to which they are due ...

So now I’m thinking that, even if I don’t gain any profound philosophical insights from my reading, I’ll at least be able to understand some ‘in’-comments around here.  ;-)

It’s a popular cave, philosophers have been going there to party for 2500 years. And now that you’ve been you’ll be able to see that “white privilege” is just a shadow on the wall :)

Well, Mr. Smartass, I’m still not sure I wanna come out of the cave; so far in my reading, some of these guys sound kinda ‘out-there’ and do a lot of playing around with words as much as ideas (or reality).  Sound familiar?  ;-)

[ Edited: 21 August 2018 20:31 by Jan_CAN]
 
 
ubique13
 
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ubique13
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21 August 2018 20:22
 
GAD - 21 August 2018 08:07 PM

It’s a popular cave, philosophers have been going there to party for 2500 years. And now that you’ve been you’ll be able to see that “white privilege” is just a shadow on the wall smile

There are still extant civilizations which have had Philosophy at least as advanced as the Ancient Greeks going back around 10,000 years or so. The Western world will always be in the shadow of the civilizations that preceded it.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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27 August 2018 17:38
 
ubique13 - 19 August 2018 06:28 PM

It’s really pretty disgraceful how Nietzsche’s historical significance is portrayed. Much of his work can be pretty heavy, and he was profoundly misanthropic, but there are few philosophers who possessed his gift for the prosaic (or his bizarrely prescient understanding of the issues facing modern man).

One doesn’t have to be a feminist to question the ‘wisdom’ of a man (Nietzsche) who despises half of humanity (women) and dislikes the remainder.  Also, Russell says that “He holds that the happiness of common people is no part of the good per se.  All that is good or bad in itself exists only in the superior few; what happens to the rest is of no account.”  Of course this is one point of view, but from what I’ve read so far, I don’t think I’m going to like Nietzsche.

 
 
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