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"Race"

 
Petra
 
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Petra
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Joined  24-08-2018
 
 
 
24 August 2018 12:09
 

Hi there and Sam,
I live in Switzerland, born in Germany and I already questioned Richard Dawkins on my Galapagos cruise about that.
We in German do not separate races within the human RACE. The word has been deleted in our taxonomy. We just use it for domesticated animals.
Whereas racism is only existing as a crime.
I think that using this word over and over as a scientist and intellectual is dangerous, influencing and by NLP increasing the problems. Richard says race in humans is a slight genetic variation…, OK: but then use this words: SGV, ethnics, whatever. Taxonomy is clear: homo sapiens sapiens.
I saw your controversial podcast about research of ‘race’ differences, which we here in Europe would never do, because it is not of any added value. You can research all characteristics (2nd toe is longer than the first, brown/ blond hair, brown/ blue eyes, size etc etc) to make statistical statements, without any evidence left.

Please stop using the word race to separate human race!

 

 
Petra
 
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Petra
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24 August 2018 12:16
 

I think I took the wrong topic. 1st time here: sorry.

 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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24 August 2018 12:44
 

No problem. I can put it here instead.

Welcome to the forum.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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24 August 2018 13:40
 

I agree but it will take a lot more than this thread to get rid of the usage of “race”.  Our history is filled with the subject and we can’t just waive our wands and be done with it.  Many people are vested in keeping the controversy alive.

 
brazen4
 
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brazen4
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24 August 2018 17:24
 

My understanding of this topic is that “race” doesn’t describe anything meaningful about humans. There is no baseline Caucasian or Negroid or any other commonly used word to describe humans who show various physical traits. There is such a blending of traits that attempting to ascribe various attributes to one or the other is a fools errand and a waste of time. As individuals we each can change our own usage of terms and engage in various conversations with a more accurate expression of whatever we are trying to say or describe.  No magic wands required, just some self examination and vigilance re the way most off us were raised and educated. I, personally, am a work in progress.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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24 August 2018 19:03
 
EN - 24 August 2018 01:40 PM

I agree but it will take a lot more than this thread to get rid of the usage of “race”.  Our history is filled with the subject and we can’t just waive our wands and be done with it.  Many people are vested in keeping the controversy alive.

No shit. I’ve been filling out job applications recently and they ask for my race.  I decline to state.

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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24 August 2018 21:02
 

The human race loves race because we are tribal and we love being in an in-group, being against your in-group becomes an in-group, being against in-groups themselves becomes an in-group, out-groups against in-groups becomes an in-group. That is the human race.

 
 
Petra
 
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Petra
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25 August 2018 00:52
 

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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25 August 2018 08:12
 
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

The question is a standard part of many job applications in the USA, especially for government jobs.  A Google search of “job application race categories” returns many examples, like this one:  https://www.opm.gov/Forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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25 August 2018 08:13
 
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

Not saying it doesn’t change anything, it just makes you feel better.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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25 August 2018 08:56
 
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

m

We cannot ban words in the USA.  The First Amendment allows people to say what they want, including advocating Nazism and denying the Holocaust.  This simply isn’t Germany. What is possible there is not possible here without a wholesale revision of our Constitution.  Nobody on either side truly wants to get rid of the First Amendment, except for our President.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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25 August 2018 09:02
 
GAD - 25 August 2018 08:13 AM
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

Not saying it doesn’t change anything, it just makes you feel better.

I disagree.  Leaving race unaddressed permits the human mind to wallow in its dark side rather than its better side.  Petra is right about Germany having history’s worst race experiment, and the result is obvious.  Ignoring race is not a solution either.  Look for the good in people before assuming the bad.

 
Petra
 
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Petra
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Joined  24-08-2018
 
 
 
25 August 2018 10:16
 
Skipshot - 25 August 2018 08:12 AM
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

The question is a standard part of many job applications in the USA, especially for government jobs.  A Google search of “job application race categories” returns many examples, like this one:  https://www.opm.gov/Forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf

Wow… Never saw something like that. That would be illegal here.

AND: I am not at all against free speech. I am against wrong implications. And there is scientifically only 1 race. It is all a question of definition and education. The word will not disappear, but not used for humans anymore.

 

 
Petra
 
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Petra
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Joined  24-08-2018
 
 
 
25 August 2018 10:21
 
EN - 25 August 2018 08:56 AM
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

m

We cannot ban words in the USA.  The First Amendment allows people to say what they want, including advocating Nazism and denying the Holocaust.  This simply isn’t Germany. What is possible there is not possible here without a wholesale revision of our Constitution.  Nobody on either side truly wants to get rid of the First Amendment, except for our President.

Did I request that? No! Race is just the wrong word for dividing humans.
Every individual should think before speaking. Strange how one can be misunderstood in forums. Read (and think and speak) before you interpret something wrong.

 
Petra
 
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Petra
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Joined  24-08-2018
 
 
 
25 August 2018 10:24
 
Skipshot - 25 August 2018 09:02 AM
GAD - 25 August 2018 08:13 AM
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

Not saying it doesn’t change anything, it just makes you feel better.

I disagree.  Leaving race unaddressed permits the human mind to wallow in its dark side rather than its better side.  Petra is right about Germany having history’s worst race experiment, and the result is obvious.  Ignoring race is not a solution either.  Look for the good in people before assuming the bad.

SORRY: I did not say that. I said that there are no races in the human race. This is scientifically wrong. Ignoring racism is a crime.

 

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  16878
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
25 August 2018 10:35
 
Skipshot - 25 August 2018 09:02 AM
GAD - 25 August 2018 08:13 AM
Petra - 25 August 2018 12:52 AM

I am German and we established racism to the highest level, so stupid but exhaustive.
We went deep as possible but could get high again. The darkest time in history.
Within 1 generation we eliminated the word up to biology taxonomy.
Even today with all the immigrants and also right wing movements no one uses the word race. Even they can not and do not say race.
There are of course in-groups, but divided by country, religion, ethnics etc.

Just do not use it. Teach not to use it. Ban it from taxonomy. Racism is illegal and it depends on using the word. So everyone using it is actually a racist.

Skipshot: You were asked for race? What are the options in the questionaire?

Not saying it doesn’t change anything, it just makes you feel better.

I disagree.  Leaving race unaddressed permits the human mind to wallow in its dark side rather than its better side.  Petra is right about Germany having history’s worst race experiment, and the result is obvious.  Ignoring race is not a solution either.  Look for the good in people before assuming the bad.

I would argue the Jews being Gods only chosen people and under edict of their God to kill and enslave everyone who is not a Jew to be a worse race experiment.

 
 
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