Guilded Age 2.0

 
bbearren
 
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bbearren
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16 September 2018 09:11
 

The first Gilded Age saw massive wealth inequalities, hyperpartisanship, virulent anti-immigrant sentiment and growing concern about money in politics. Sound familiar?”

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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16 September 2018 10:08
 

Boring agenda projection.

 
 
Celal
 
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Celal
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16 September 2018 14:51
 
bbearren - 16 September 2018 09:11 AM

The first Gilded Age saw massive wealth inequalities, hyperpartisanship, virulent anti-immigrant sentiment and growing concern about money in politics. Sound familiar?”

virulent anti-immigrant sentiment ?  What a crock!

You can not tell the difference between an immigrant vs illegal aliens. That means you do not care that “illegal alien” is a legal term, it’s in statute, it’s a federal term. But you do not wish to use it because the media tells you not to. You insult all decent, honest and hardworking “legal” immigrants who came to this country by confusing them with those who broke the law to cross the border. 

For a few years they used the made up term “undocumented immigrant”, and now there is not even a need to include “undocumented”, meant to obscure the fact that such aliens have violated U.S. immigration law.  You don’t even bother using that anymore.  What nonsense!

 

 
Twissel
 
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Twissel
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17 September 2018 00:17
 

total BS, Celal.

There are very clear rules about the different kinds of migration.

Also, it is plainly false that it is illegal to arrive at a border and ask for Asylum.

Above all, THIS IS NOT A RELEVANT ISSUE.
The US doesn’t have a problem with migration, legal or otherwise: it doesn’t statistically increase crime rates, it doesn’t impact the labor market negatively - in fact, many sectors depend on a steady supply of immigrant labor.

Whilst the GOP waves the red cape of illegal immigration to distract voters, it stabs them in the back by taking their tax money and giving it to big companies, rich families and special interest groups in a form of socialism: or how would you call it when your tax dollars are used to fund unprofitable mining and pay farmers to keep quiet about the fact that the tariffs kill their business?

 
 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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17 September 2018 01:22
 

There are people with wealth and political power who are trying to explicitly bring about a second Gilded Age, by reviving the ideologies and policies that were prevalent in the first Gilded Age. If you are not familiar with the first Gilded Age, The Republic for Which It Stands (https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-republic-for-which-it-stands-9780199735815?cc=us&lang=en&) is a good start.

For those who think that my opinion is the projection of a conspiracy-theory agenda, here’s a hint: During the Gilded Age, a Liberal was someone who would most closely resemble a Libertatian in current U.S. political terminology, while a Whig, would most closely resemble a modern-day Clintonesque Liberal. Political terminology as well as party positions are like limp flags blowing in the wind.

[ Edited: 17 September 2018 01:28 by Poldano]
 
 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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17 September 2018 01:39
 
Celal - 16 September 2018 02:51 PM
bbearren - 16 September 2018 09:11 AM

The first Gilded Age saw massive wealth inequalities, hyperpartisanship, virulent anti-immigrant sentiment and growing concern about money in politics. Sound familiar?”

virulent anti-immigrant sentiment ?  What a crock!

You can not tell the difference between an immigrant vs illegal aliens. That means you do not care that “illegal alien” is a legal term, it’s in statute, it’s a federal term. But you do not wish to use it because the media tells you not to. You insult all decent, honest and hardworking “legal” immigrants who came to this country by confusing them with those who broke the law to cross the border. 

For a few years they used the made up term “undocumented immigrant”, and now there is not even a need to include “undocumented”, meant to obscure the fact that such aliens have violated U.S. immigration law.  You don’t even bother using that anymore.  What nonsense!

I call BS as well. Illegal immigration tends to be the rallying cry of people who are fundamentally against immigration, but do not want to be perceived as hostile to immigrants. The Trump administration is fundamentally against immigration except for perhaps those (e.g., Norwegians) who are culturally and ethnically similar to the 1950’s television image of Americans and likely to be wealthy. Evidence for this are the positions and influence of Stephen Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller_(political_advisor)) and Jeff Sessions in the Trump administration. If prevention of illegal immigration were the only objective, then we would not simultaneously observe efforts to restrict applications for political asylum, reduce refugee admissions, and increase deportation of already identified illegal immigrants.

[ Edited: 17 September 2018 01:47 by Poldano]
 
 
Celal
 
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Celal
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17 September 2018 08:44
 
Twissel - 17 September 2018 12:17 AM

total BS, Celal.

There are very clear rules about the different kinds of migration.

Also, it is plainly false that it is illegal to arrive at a border and ask for Asylum.

If you had a good argument you would not need to resort to absurd reasoning like millions are crossing the border, jumping over the walls, many paying coyotes their life long savings, risking getting raped on the way, or even die trying, just to ask for Asylum, when there are US consulates in Mexico for that purpose. Is that why there are estimated 15-30 million illegals in the country?

But you knew that. Did you not?  You are just being silly.

 
Celal
 
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Celal
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17 September 2018 08:49
 
Poldano - 17 September 2018 01:39 AM
Celal - 16 September 2018 02:51 PM
bbearren - 16 September 2018 09:11 AM

The first Gilded Age saw massive wealth inequalities, hyperpartisanship, virulent anti-immigrant sentiment and growing concern about money in politics. Sound familiar?”

virulent anti-immigrant sentiment ?  What a crock!

You can not tell the difference between an immigrant vs illegal aliens. That means you do not care that “illegal alien” is a legal term, it’s in statute, it’s a federal term. But you do not wish to use it because the media tells you not to. You insult all decent, honest and hardworking “legal” immigrants who came to this country by confusing them with those who broke the law to cross the border. 

For a few years they used the made up term “undocumented immigrant”, and now there is not even a need to include “undocumented”, meant to obscure the fact that such aliens have violated U.S. immigration law.  You don’t even bother using that anymore.  What nonsense!

I call BS as well. Illegal immigration tends to be the rallying cry of people who are fundamentally against immigration, but do not want to be perceived as hostile to immigrants. The Trump administration is fundamentally against immigration except for perhaps those (e.g., Norwegians) who are culturally and ethnically similar to the 1950’s television image of Americans and likely to be wealthy.

That is like saying if you are against stealing you are against commerce. The bold text does not even make any sense. Illegal vs legal. You have a problem with accepting the difference. Arguing over the difference would make both of us stupid.

 
brazen4
 
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brazen4
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17 September 2018 14:34
 

If it were not for us good Americans hiring all those nasty illegal immigrants they wouldn’t come here. I get sick of the hypocrisy. If there were a fine of 20,000 $ for every infraction it would go away. And it is on the person doing the hiring to check status so no excuses.  There are large parts of our economy that depend on (as in, business model) illegal immigrants. Humans are opportunists, remove the opportunity and you can stop hating on those OTHER humans.

 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
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17 September 2018 19:08
 

Jail time; a fine is just extra overhead.

 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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18 September 2018 00:21
 

I’m curious if the alternate spelling in the header was intentional. If so, well played.

 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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18 September 2018 01:00
 
Celal - 17 September 2018 08:49 AM
Poldano - 17 September 2018 01:39 AM

...

I call BS as well. Illegal immigration tends to be the rallying cry of people who are fundamentally against immigration, but do not want to be perceived as hostile to immigrants. The Trump administration is fundamentally against immigration except for perhaps those (e.g., Norwegians) who are culturally and ethnically similar to the 1950’s television image of Americans and likely to be wealthy.

That is like saying if you are against stealing you are against commerce. The bold text does not even make any sense. Illegal vs legal. You have a problem with accepting the difference. Arguing over the difference would make both of us stupid.

I don’t quite follow the analogy. While I agree that equating illegal immigration with any immigration is the same as equating stealing and commerce, that is not what I am referring to. What I am explicitly referring to is analogous to people complaining vociferously against stealing at the same time as they are less vociferously working to suppress other kinds of commerce. An even better analogy replaces stealing with smuggling. That is closer to the gist of my arguments. I agree that the statement you put in bold is not as semantically or grammatically clean as I generally try to make my statements, but the following sentences that elaborated my point, and which you did not address, were quite clear.

 

 
 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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18 September 2018 01:06
 
Celal - 17 September 2018 08:44 AM

...

Twissel - 17 September 2018 12:17 AM

total BS, Celal.

There are very clear rules about the different kinds of migration.

Also, it is plainly false that it is illegal to arrive at a border and ask for Asylum.

If you had a good argument you would not need to resort to absurd reasoning like millions are crossing the border, jumping over the walls, many paying coyotes their life long savings, risking getting raped on the way, or even die trying, just to ask for Asylum, when there are US consulates in Mexico for that purpose. Is that why there are estimated 15-30 million illegals in the country?

 

Most current immigration seekers and illegal immigrants aren’t from Mexico but from other countries in Central America, those that are often called Banana Republics.

As for applying for political asylum at consular offices in countries of origin, I maintain that there is a systematic effort to reduce asylum applications and deny those applications that make it through the system, except for situations where the governments of the countries of origin are disapproved of by the U.S. government. For decades, people from Cuba have been able to get political asylum, and were almost automatically accepted as refugees, while people from other Latin American countries with equally miserable economies and human-rights situations, like El Salvador, Guatemala, and Haiti, have had a harder time getting the same benefits.

 
 
Poldano
 
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Poldano
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18 September 2018 01:12
 
Brick Bungalow - 18 September 2018 12:21 AM

I’m curious if the alternate spelling in the header was intentional. If so, well played.

Bully to you for seeing it; I didn’t and missed the irony.

In a sense, the era was a Guilded Age as well, but one in which some of the guilds were singularly ineffective. The era saw the start of the labor union movement; the current era doesn’t seem to have anything like that degree of ground-level self-organization or political involvement. I can hardly consider Antifa or Black Lives Matter as comparable as comparable to the Knights of Labor, for instance.