Sam asks the wrong question to Jordan Peterson

 
saintnick
 
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saintnick
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18 November 2018 15:33
 

Sam, you likely don’t read the YouTube comments, so here you go for my first:
(and you must know I’m a fan, an atheist, an agnost perhaps)

At 2:16 you tell Jordan “Yeah but if you relentlessly told children about batman…etc.?”
That’s not the right question Sam. A good evolutionary question would be: “If we hadn’t relentlessly been told about Jesus…”
Try that.
I’d like to know your extensive answer to that question.

 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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19 November 2018 05:29
 

I sometimes wonder about what sort of ludicrous story I’d have bought as a child, as I’m pretty sure God was never mentioned to me until the first day of first grade at St. Stan’s. Until that time, the closest thing to a sketchy fib I’d ever heard was when my family moved to a new neighborhood and Skeeter Wachtendonk (now deceased), a year older than me, introduced himself on a sidewalk adjacent to our houses. I was 5 and he was 6.

Immediately after we introduced ourselves, Skeeter became a bully of sorts, pointing to a flattened, faded wad of gum on the street. “Eat that gum, Dave,” he ordered. He was bigger than me and I probably licked it, but my memory fails me. I clearly remember that he then told me he had a microphone in his chest that would allow him to hear everything I might say to my mother, and that I’d be in big trouble if I were to tell her or anyone else about the nasty gum business. The details of his threat are gone now from my memory.

We somehow became close friends, as Skeeter introduced me to MAD Magazine and other iconic instruments of rebellion. I suppose he gave me the tools to help me eventually digest and categorize all manner of nuttiness.

By the way, I told my mom about it, but I have no memory of her reaction. And Skeeter eventually became a well-known sculptor, of all things.

[ EDIT: Skeeter should have known that a speaker in his chest might have terrorized me more effectively! ]

 

[ Edited: 19 November 2018 05:44 by nonverbal]
 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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16 December 2018 23:46
 

This query has been put to Peterson a number of time by different people. He always evades it. He does the pirouette of making religion some kind of ethereal avatar of culture and ethics that can never be questioned on specifics… ‘hide the ball’ as Sam calls it.

I think Jordan has a number of valid insights but he isn’t a critical thinker and doesn’t have an interest in becoming one. He sells self help dogma and gets high on his own supply. All conversations are a segue to more free advice.

 
TheAnal_lyticPhilosopher
 
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TheAnal_lyticPhilosopher
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17 December 2018 14:30
 

The story of Jesus has numerous moral implications that are far from stupid.  Turn the other cheek in the face of aggression.  Forgiveness as a power of self-liberation. The moral individual against the power of the state.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  And so forth.  That these are given a supernatural sanction in an assertion of divinity is no more stupid than Harris’ own assertions of an antecedent foundation for morality through his worst-possible-misery-for-everyone scenario, and its consequent navigation problem for determining right from wrong.  As propositional truth claims, both the supernatural Jesus and his so-called rational foundation are are fictitious bunk, so Harris is the last one who should be comparing Jesus to Batman.  Put another way, Harris’ foundation is only marginally less absurd than dictates from God, for the bad justification of a good idea—i.e. a useful moral imperative—is still just a bad justification.  In the end-game, it doesn’t really matter whether it is from Jesus, Batman, or avoiding the worst-possible-misery-for-everyone, so long as people are behaving morally.  Harris should be more mindful of the power of his own fictions when he compares and criticizes the preferred fictions of others.  In the end he’s just as beholden to fiction as anyone else, including the religious believers he condemns for theirs.

[ Edited: 17 December 2018 14:47 by TheAnal_lyticPhilosopher]
 
saintnick
 
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saintnick
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04 February 2019 13:58
 
TheAnal_lyticPhilosopher - 17 December 2018 02:30 PM

The story of Jesus has numerous moral implications that are far from stupid.  Turn the other cheek in the face of aggression.  Forgiveness as a power of self-liberation. The moral individual against the power of the state.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  And so forth.  That these are given a supernatural sanction in an assertion of divinity is no more stupid than Harris’ own assertions of an antecedent foundation for morality through his worst-possible-misery-for-everyone scenario, and its consequent navigation problem for determining right from wrong.  As propositional truth claims, both the supernatural Jesus and his so-called rational foundation are are fictitious bunk, so Harris is the last one who should be comparing Jesus to Batman.  Put another way, Harris’ foundation is only marginally less absurd than dictates from God, for the bad justification of a good idea—i.e. a useful moral imperative—is still just a bad justification.  In the end-game, it doesn’t really matter whether it is from Jesus, Batman, or avoiding the worst-possible-misery-for-everyone, so long as people are behaving morally.  Harris should be more mindful of the power of his own fictions when he compares and criticizes the preferred fictions of others.  In the end he’s just as beholden to fiction as anyone else, including the religious believers he condemns for theirs.

Thanks for this eloquent spot-on answer. I think I can agree with all of it.
I’m now listening to Sam’s interview with Stephen Fry, where so far (I’m a third way through) Sam courageously allows himself to be ‘Fryed’ by Stephen:-)  So far he’s holding up quite well, not letting himself be pushed to much on the defensive by Stephen’s ‘attacks’ and responding quite maturely. So far they seem quite well to be finding a midway, which is where I am.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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05 February 2019 05:28
 

Sam Harris isn’t gunning to change policy.  Unlike Jordan Peterson who met secretly with Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, shortly after tweeting about his desire to abolish the Human Rights Commission last fall.  A meeting that was revealed by the media only after it was discovered through a freedom of information request.

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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05 February 2019 08:17
 

Once JP came out as a climate change denialist, I lost the very small bit of interest I had left in him.
It is clear he is playing a politics game that is very lucrative for him, but I’m just not interested.