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Bush 41

 
EN
 
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EN
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02 December 2018 06:30
 

Say what you will about his politics; he had more integrity than 90% of politicians on the scene today. I’d take him over Trump in a heartbeat.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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02 December 2018 07:22
 

It’s amazing how American War Criminals become Saints when they die.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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02 December 2018 08:27
 

He’s not a saint (except compared to Trump), and I doubt anyone thinks he is. And if liberating Kuwait and then withdrawing makes him a war criminal, then basically every president we have had is one, so he was not abnormal.  I would use a different calculus for determining that, however.

 
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Skipshot
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02 December 2018 08:52
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 07:22 AM

It’s amazing how American War Criminals become Saints when they die.

I wasn’t a fan of Bush (the president), but on what basis is he a war criminal?

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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02 December 2018 09:41
 

Kuwait was fucking over Iraq by undercutting the cost of oil.  A week before the invasion (which the world leaders were well aware of) Bush’s ambassador to Iraq told Saddam the States wouldn’t get involved in Arab on Arab conflict.  This nod enabled the invasion.  Then came the televised address justifying the deployment of troops to defend the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from the quarter million troops and fifteen hundred Iraqi tanks amassed on the Saudi border.  We were told that satellite images showed an imminent threat.  That is until one investigative journalist, who bought time on a commercial satellite, showed actual images of an empty desert. 

Then he was responsible for dumping about eighty eight thousand five hundred tonnes of munitions on the region which destroyed infrastructure, directly and indirectly, slaughtering mostly civilians.  This was when smart weapons were coming up so in order to dispose of the old (dumb) weaponry and focus on developing the newer shinier weaponry they discarded it all when they stormed the desert.  This brought Iraq to its knees.  What didn’t perish immediately would linger for years.  Without water, sewage and electrical generation the casualties would mount from malnutrition and cholera.  Multitudes of bloody diarrhea deaths.  Were these legitimate military targets?  Twas a bloodbath.

Don’t even get me started on Iran-Contra.  Or his tenure at the C.I.A.

War criminal?  I guess you could always join the World Court and find out.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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02 December 2018 10:28
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 09:41 AM

Kuwait was fucking over Iraq by undercutting the cost of oil.  A week before the invasion (which the world leaders were well aware of) Bush’s ambassador to Iraq told Saddam the States wouldn’t get involved in Arab on Arab conflict.  This nod enabled the invasion.  Then came the televised address justifying the deployment of troops to defend the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from the quarter million troops and fifteen hundred Iraqi tanks amassed on the Saudi border.  We were told that satellite images showed an imminent threat.  That is until one investigative journalist, who bought time on a commercial satellite, showed actual images of an empty desert. 

Then he was responsible for dumping about eighty eight thousand five hundred tonnes of munitions on the region which destroyed infrastructure, directly and indirectly, slaughtering mostly civilians.  This was when smart weapons were coming up so in order to dispose of the old (dumb) weaponry and focus on developing the newer shinier weaponry they discarded it all when they stormed the desert.  This brought Iraq to its knees.  What didn’t perish immediately would linger for years.  Without water, sewage and electrical generation the casualties would mount from malnutrition and cholera.  Multitudes of bloody diarrhea deaths.  Were these legitimate military targets?  Twas a bloodbath.

Don’t even get me started on Iran-Contra.  Or his tenure at the C.I.A.

War criminal?  I guess you could always join the World Court and find out.

That is called global politics, and if you don’t think everyone is playing them to then you are very naive.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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02 December 2018 10:59
 
GAD - 02 December 2018 10:28 AM
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 09:41 AM

Kuwait was fucking over Iraq by undercutting the cost of oil.  A week before the invasion (which the world leaders were well aware of) Bush’s ambassador to Iraq told Saddam the States wouldn’t get involved in Arab on Arab conflict.  This nod enabled the invasion.  Then came the televised address justifying the deployment of troops to defend the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from the quarter million troops and fifteen hundred Iraqi tanks amassed on the Saudi border.  We were told that satellite images showed an imminent threat.  That is until one investigative journalist, who bought time on a commercial satellite, showed actual images of an empty desert. 

Then he was responsible for dumping about eighty eight thousand five hundred tonnes of munitions on the region which destroyed infrastructure, directly and indirectly, slaughtering mostly civilians.  This was when smart weapons were coming up so in order to dispose of the old (dumb) weaponry and focus on developing the newer shinier weaponry they discarded it all when they stormed the desert.  This brought Iraq to its knees.  What didn’t perish immediately would linger for years.  Without water, sewage and electrical generation the casualties would mount from malnutrition and cholera.  Multitudes of bloody diarrhea deaths.  Were these legitimate military targets?  Twas a bloodbath.

Don’t even get me started on Iran-Contra.  Or his tenure at the C.I.A.

War criminal?  I guess you could always join the World Court and find out.

That is called global politics, and if you don’t think everyone is playing them to then you are very naive.

Who else, GAD? Canada? Sweden?

 

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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02 December 2018 11:56
 
nonverbal - 02 December 2018 10:59 AM
GAD - 02 December 2018 10:28 AM
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 09:41 AM

Kuwait was fucking over Iraq by undercutting the cost of oil.  A week before the invasion (which the world leaders were well aware of) Bush’s ambassador to Iraq told Saddam the States wouldn’t get involved in Arab on Arab conflict.  This nod enabled the invasion.  Then came the televised address justifying the deployment of troops to defend the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from the quarter million troops and fifteen hundred Iraqi tanks amassed on the Saudi border.  We were told that satellite images showed an imminent threat.  That is until one investigative journalist, who bought time on a commercial satellite, showed actual images of an empty desert. 

Then he was responsible for dumping about eighty eight thousand five hundred tonnes of munitions on the region which destroyed infrastructure, directly and indirectly, slaughtering mostly civilians.  This was when smart weapons were coming up so in order to dispose of the old (dumb) weaponry and focus on developing the newer shinier weaponry they discarded it all when they stormed the desert.  This brought Iraq to its knees.  What didn’t perish immediately would linger for years.  Without water, sewage and electrical generation the casualties would mount from malnutrition and cholera.  Multitudes of bloody diarrhea deaths.  Were these legitimate military targets?  Twas a bloodbath.

Don’t even get me started on Iran-Contra.  Or his tenure at the C.I.A.

War criminal?  I guess you could always join the World Court and find out.

That is called global politics, and if you don’t think everyone is playing them to then you are very naive.

Who else, GAD? Canada? Sweden?

You are not nearly as clever as you think you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
Canada was one of the first countries to condemn Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, and it quickly agreed to join the US-led coalition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Friction
Operation Friction was a Canadian military operation that saw the contribution of 4,500 Canadian Forces personnel to the 1991 Gulf War.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/canadian-armed-forces/persian-gulf

 

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
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02 December 2018 12:15
 

So if anyone else of importance does something, that makes it okay? I only wish I were as clever as you apparently think I am. (Go ahead and pile on.)

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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02 December 2018 12:24
 

Canada was there in a supportive role to free Kuwait and not pummel Iraq back to the stone age.  Zero offensive measures were taken.  Not one bomb was dropped, not one missile launched, not one bullet fired.  Most importantly we learned our lesson.  And told you to go fuck yourselves for Gulf War Part Deux.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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02 December 2018 13:35
 
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 12:24 PM

Canada was there in a supportive role to free Kuwait and not pummel Iraq back to the stone age.  Zero offensive measures were taken.  Not one bomb was dropped, not one missile launched, not one bullet fired.  Most importantly we learned our lesson.  And told you to go fuck yourselves for Gulf War Part Deux.

So Canada was the first to condemn Iraq you blame on a “war criminal”, then join the UN sanction war coalition to fight a war you blame on a “war criminal”, but it’s OK because they sucked and just flew around and drank beer aeh.  As usual your only interest is to bash America and white people while making special exceptions for the poor world you are trying to save from America and white people.

 
 
Brick Bungalow
 
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Brick Bungalow
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02 December 2018 19:11
 

That’s a tough call. He was certainly less vulgar and stupid but he will probably prove deadlier.

 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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03 December 2018 06:43
 
GAD - 02 December 2018 01:35 PM
LadyJane - 02 December 2018 12:24 PM

Canada was there in a supportive role to free Kuwait and not pummel Iraq back to the stone age.  Zero offensive measures were taken.  Not one bomb was dropped, not one missile launched, not one bullet fired.  Most importantly we learned our lesson.  And told you to go fuck yourselves for Gulf War Part Deux.

So Canada was the first to condemn Iraq you blame on a “war criminal”, then join the UN sanction war coalition to fight a war you blame on a “war criminal”, but it’s OK because they sucked and just flew around and drank beer aeh.  As usual your only interest is to bash America and white people while making special exceptions for the poor world you are trying to save from America and white people.

Let’s keep personal attacks out of this. 

I have not investigated LJ’s claims about Bush, nor have the time or inclination, but offering a different perspective keeps us in check.

 
burt
 
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burt
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03 December 2018 09:26
 

What EN said.

 
EN
 
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03 December 2018 09:29
 

The situation before Iraq’s invasion was more in the nature of a border dispute between the two countries.  At that time, the US did not want to get involved in a border dispute between two Arab countries.  I do not believe that a full-blown invasion was contemplated or tacitly agreed to by the US.  Why would it do that?  Once a member of the UN was unjustifiably invaded, the US led a large coalition of nations - including some Arab ones - to expel Iraq.  There was no takeover of Iraq or march to Baghdad or prolonged war.  The coalition liberated Kuwait and got out.  As far the brutality of war, that is what happens when nations fight.  But overpowering force is the best way to end the conflict quickly.

 
nonverbal
 
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03 December 2018 11:03
 
EN - 03 December 2018 09:29 AM

The situation before Iraq’s invasion was more in the nature of a border dispute between the two countries.  At that time, the US did not want to get involved in a border dispute between two Arab countries.  I do not believe that a full-blown invasion was contemplated or tacitly agreed to by the US.  Why would it do that?  Once a member of the UN was unjustifiably invaded, the US led a large coalition of nations - including some Arab ones - to expel Iraq.  There was no takeover of Iraq or march to Baghdad or prolonged war.  The coalition liberated Kuwait and got out.  As far the brutality of war, that is what happens when nations fight.  But overpowering force is the best way to end the conflict quickly.

Was the invasion political, or moral? Is it possible for a non-expert (in the sense of someone having been an insider or close witness to the decision-making process itself) to know?

 
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