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The Wall

 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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15 January 2019 12:29
 
Cheshire Cat - 15 January 2019 11:02 AM

I think it’s time for Trump to ask Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends if he should forget about building the Wall and reopen the government.

They are the ones who are really in charge; the ones Trump takes his cues from.

Hey CC, I hope thinking about Trump hasn’t made you ‘blue’.  This is a new avatar, isn’t it?

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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15 January 2019 14:14
 
Jan_CAN - 15 January 2019 12:29 PM
Cheshire Cat - 15 January 2019 11:02 AM

I think it’s time for Trump to ask Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends if he should forget about building the Wall and reopen the government.

They are the ones who are really in charge; the ones Trump takes his cues from.

Hey CC, I hope thinking about Trump hasn’t made you ‘blue’.  This is a new avatar, isn’t it?

We Cheshire Cats are mercurial beings, don’t cha know.

I saw this image in an Alice in Wonderland book illustrated by Greg Hildebrandt and really liked it. My old avatar always seemed to be leering a bit too much. This puddy tat is more restrained.

And thinking about Trump makes me green — a nauseous feeling like sea sickness overtakes me.

 
 
Jan_CAN
 
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Jan_CAN
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15 January 2019 14:48
 
Cheshire Cat - 15 January 2019 02:14 PM
Jan_CAN - 15 January 2019 12:29 PM
Cheshire Cat - 15 January 2019 11:02 AM

I think it’s time for Trump to ask Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends if he should forget about building the Wall and reopen the government.

They are the ones who are really in charge; the ones Trump takes his cues from.

Hey CC, I hope thinking about Trump hasn’t made you ‘blue’.  This is a new avatar, isn’t it?

We Cheshire Cats are mercurial beings, don’t cha know.

I saw this image in an Alice in Wonderland book illustrated by Greg Hildebrandt and really liked it. My old avatar always seemed to be leering a bit too much. This puddy tat is more restrained.

And thinking about Trump makes me green — a nauseous feeling like sea sickness overtakes me.

Haha ... I do like the new puddy cat, especially his mischievous grin.

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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15 January 2019 18:24
 
hannahtoo - 12 January 2019 12:59 PM

The House of Reps passed a bill last week that included:

• More than $1.3 billion for new fencing in the Rio Grande Valley and funding to replace secondary fencing in San Diego and other existing pedestrian fencing.

• $366.5 million for border security technology.

• $7.7 million to hire 328 additional U.S. Customs and Border Protection customs officers.

• $224.6 million for “non-intrusive Inspection equipment” at ports of entry.

• $7.08 billion for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

If Pres Trump were open to negotiation, this could be a starting point.  Hey, $1.3 billion for some new fencing in Texas.  That’s a start.  But no, it has to be $5.7 billion for wall-building or 1/4 of the government remains shut down, according to Trump.

There are two sides to the government shutdown, but your last paragraph implies there isn’t.  The fact that no agreement has been come to means both sides have things they are unwilling to negotiate.  If you can tell me what those nonnegotiable are for both sides, then we can discuss the issue in a coherent way.

As for “open to negotiation” - is the government prioritizing border security open to negotiation too?  How about prioritizing funding of a police force?  Prioritizing funding of a court system?  Just how far does this “open to negotiation” concept go with an organization that literally takes money out of our pockets?

As for the cost, I thought border security was a fundamental part of the social contract.  Why are we quibbling about cost when the border of the wealthiest nation in history has been this insecure for decades?  Why are all these opportunistic fiscal libertarians coming out of the woodworks?

When did we decide as Americans that the government need not even maintain the appearance of trying to uphold the social contract?

You tell me.

hannahtoo - 12 January 2019 12:59 PM

Another niggling thing that is bugging me about our President right now is that he disparagingly calls the Democratic leaders “Chuck and Nancy,” or even “Crying Chuck and Nancy.”  He should be calling them Senator Schumer and Speaker Pelosi, or other traditional addresses.  They don’t refer to the President as “Don” or “Blustering Donnie.”

But when did we decide what politicians should and should not say to each other?  I’m pretty sure we’ve never had an open discussion about that as Americans.  And until we have that discussion, let’s recognize that we are in uncharted territory with mass communication and our understanding of the effects of new technology is catching up to technology (this trend will continue indefinitely and the gap will continue to increase).

Also, Trump broke rank in order to gain an advantage over his opponents.  He broke rank with his unwillingness to back down in conversation and his unwillingness to play a “you scratch my back I scratch yours” in terms of confrontation.

You can’t argue his catchy insults don’t work because they were some of the major ways in which he gained and kept momentum in the media.

You can only argue that he’s politically effective and you don’t like it.  He understands the media, he has a fantastic instinct for leveraging human psychology to his advantage, and he just happens to not have policies and/or a personality you like.  You’ve got Ocasio Cortez - be happy that you’ll have the Trump 2.0 to look forward to.  What she lacks can be made up for by the fact that she has all the policies the mainstream media likes.

 

Trump’s catchy insults get clicks.  Media websites’ business model is based on clicks.  This is why Fox News exists, this is why CNN exists, NBC, etc.

 

[ Edited: 15 January 2019 18:42 by Quadrewple]
 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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16 January 2019 06:55
 

Border Security =/= the Wall

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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16 January 2019 07:10
 

The Democrats are willing to fund more border security using various means.  Pres Trump is the one insisting it must be a wall, and it must be $5.7 billion worth.

The President insults the public by proffering a simplistic view of issues.  He paints a picture of desperados carrying drugs on their backs through the desert, and conceives of them turning back when they reach a towering wall.  In fact, most drugs enter our country via semi-trucks with hidden compartments, passing through legal ports of entry.  And via boats which ferry their cargo to shore.  Via small aircraft.  But “wall” is such a catchy chant for rallies.  Pres Trump is loathe to give up on it.

He also insults us by his statements.  Sure, there is no legal obligation for him to act with dignity.  He can give people juvenile nicknames.  He can send out tweets to millions without even proof-reading for misspellings.  He can claim responsibility for a shutdown and then blame others.  However, the result is that a lot of us reject the idea of him being our “leader.”  He’s more of an object lesson.

 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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16 January 2019 09:39
 
hannahtoo - 16 January 2019 07:10 AM

The Democrats are willing to fund more border security using various means.  Pres Trump is the one insisting it must be a wall, and it must be $5.7 billion worth.

That helps his russian steel mogul buddy, much more than it helps border security.

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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16 January 2019 09:41
 
Jefe - 16 January 2019 06:55 AM

Border Security =/= the Wall

Border security must be a priority for what the government spends money/focuses on, or else the government is completely illegitimate.  So while you’re right, what is your actual point in terms of what should be done now?

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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16 January 2019 10:36
 
Quadrewple - 16 January 2019 09:41 AM
Jefe - 16 January 2019 06:55 AM

Border Security =/= the Wall

Border security must be a priority for what the government spends money/focuses on, or else the government is completely illegitimate.  So while you’re right, what is your actual point in terms of what should be done now?

The govt. shutdown should end.

 

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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16 January 2019 10:46
 
Jefe - 16 January 2019 10:36 AM

The govt. shutdown should end.

That’s not what must be done, that’s a result you’re after.  I’m asking what must be done (execution) right now

 
 
unsmoked
 
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unsmoked
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16 January 2019 10:49
 
Jefe - 16 January 2019 10:36 AM
Quadrewple - 16 January 2019 09:41 AM
Jefe - 16 January 2019 06:55 AM

Border Security =/= the Wall

Border security must be a priority for what the government spends money/focuses on, or else the government is completely illegitimate.  So while you’re right, what is your actual point in terms of what should be done now?

The govt. shutdown should end.

Before the shutdown causes an air disaster.  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-the-shutdown-is-affecting-the-safety-of-air-travel

Or vandalism in the National Parks.  Oh, too late.  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/01/environmental-impacts-of-federal-government-shutdown-from-monitoring-to-parks-food/

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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16 January 2019 10:49
 
Quadrewple - 16 January 2019 10:46 AM
Jefe - 16 January 2019 10:36 AM

The govt. shutdown should end.

That’s not what must be done, that’s a result you’re after.  I’m asking what must be done (execution) right now

Congress should go back to business.

 

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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16 January 2019 13:02
 
Jefe - 16 January 2019 10:49 AM

Congress should go back to business.

But how?

We as human beings have to find a way to get along together in an Information Age and in an age without religious dominance over value systems - respectfully, this is government shutdown is only the symptom of much greater problems.

As I’ve said elsewhere, our wisdom about dealing with technology increases faster

You don’t seem to get that this current situation is what the model we had produced, exposed to this particular environment (these particular sequence of events which had an effect on said model), particularly technology and the massive social changes.

All these posts here, and no one has challenged my logic behind why the government MUST at least give the appearance of maintaining a secure border.  No one has explained why that would ever be negotiable.

And because no one explains why that would be negotiable, I’m left speechless by the amount of avoidance going on in America right now.  Morons on the right are making all the bad arguments, and morons on the left are ignoring all the good arguments.

 
 
Cheshire Cat
 
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Cheshire Cat
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16 January 2019 13:10
 

I think you are the one missing the point.

The Democrats are not against border security. They want to do it in the most cost effective and intelligent way possible, which is not to throw money away on an idiotic physical wall 2,000 mile long, just so Trump and pander to his base.

[ Edited: 16 January 2019 13:59 by Cheshire Cat]
 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
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16 January 2019 13:47
 
Quadrewple - 16 January 2019 01:02 PM
Jefe - 16 January 2019 10:49 AM

Congress should go back to business.

But how?

We as human beings have to find a way to get along together in an Information Age and in an age without religious dominance over value systems - respectfully, this is government shutdown is only the symptom of much greater problems.

As I’ve said elsewhere, our wisdom about dealing with technology increases faster

You don’t seem to get that this current situation is what the model we had produced, exposed to this particular environment (these particular sequence of events which had an effect on said model), particularly technology and the massive social changes.

All these posts here, and no one has challenged my logic behind why the government MUST at least give the appearance of maintaining a secure border.  No one has explained why that would ever be negotiable.

And because no one explains why that would be negotiable, I’m left speechless by the amount of avoidance going on in America right now.  Morons on the right are making all the bad arguments, and morons on the left are ignoring all the good arguments.

This sums it up pretty well:

Cheshire Cat - 16 January 2019 01:10 PM

I think you are one missing the point.

The Democrats are not against border security. They want to do it in the most cost effective and intelligent was possible, which is not to throw money away on an idiotic physical wall 2,000 mile long, just so Trump and pander to his base.

Also concerning is the connection to russian steel mogul, Roman Abramovich.
As previously mentioned. 
Why did the wall budget go from $1.7 B to $5.7+ B?
Why doesn’t the shipping of $5+B to russians bother people more? Are ‘they’ the morons you mention?

1) McConnell should stop blocking motions to continue from congress.
(And maybe consider not being such an evil old man.)
2) Congress should get back in business. (Per the governor from Oklahoma’s speech.)
3) Furloughed and unpaid federal workers should receive all back-pay.
4) Border Security (which =/= the Wall) should be considered according to prioritization.

But hey, when one dreams, dream blue-sky solutions, no?

 

 
 
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