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Folks with Delusions or Delusional Folks- What is the Best Strategy?

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  3292
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
16 December 2018 10:31
 
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
Total Posts:  324
Joined  07-02-2017
 
 
 
16 December 2018 10:34
 
burt - 16 December 2018 10:19 AM
proximacentauri - 16 December 2018 06:54 AM
burt - 15 December 2018 06:55 PM
proximacentauri - 15 December 2018 01:20 PM
burt - 15 December 2018 09:59 AM
proximacentauri - 15 December 2018 07:15 AM

We all have our varied perceptions of reality because our senses are imperfect. That’s not what gets us into trouble. It’s our capacity to self-delude, to seek confirmation bias, and our familial and societal indoctrination in nonsense from a young age.

How do you tell someone their belief or belief system is delusional without offending them? Not an easy task. That their beliefs are unsubstantiated by the evidence matters not to them. They are too invested in their self delusion because it comforts them and supports their ideological views of reality. They will ignore or rationalize-away any un-supporting evidence. And they will continue to seek ‘supporting’ evidence which includes personal revelations, miracles,  pseudoscience, woo, and talking heads who agree with their rank biases. “The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.”

The only way out of this pattern is first to acknowledge that we are vulnerable to self-deception, then a willingness to be self-skeptical of our own beliefs and preconceived notions, and the self-discipline to maintain an open mind to other explanations. Again, not an easy task.

And there seems to be a hidden assumption here, namely that if we were all self-skeptical and maintained an open mind then we would all agree on the nature of reality?

No, but our chances of finding common ground should improve. We have no chance with certainty and closemindedness, which underpins religious belief and then often extends to politics, science, etc.

Best common ground is recognizing that we’re all human and respecting our differences, including different beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality.

Not if those beliefs about the ultimate nature of reality include a book of ideas scripted by the ‘one true creator’ of the universe that direct it’s adherents to subjugate women, punish homosexuals, seek to govern via theocracy, and seek to impose their belief system on the whole of humanity. Those beliefs about the nature of reality should not only be disrespected but ardently opposed.

Note the condition of “...respecting our differences…” Note, too, that it’s the attitude toward the book…

“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
? Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  17531
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
16 December 2018 10:36
 
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
Total Posts:  1780
Joined  31-10-2015
 
 
 
16 December 2018 10:50
 
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:09 AM
nonverbal - 16 December 2018 08:15 AM
GAD - 15 December 2018 08:31 PM

How long has this site been running 15 years? How many people in that time posted more then 50 posts, 250 or so and how many have posted more then 500, like 50. yet how many posts were spent talking about how attract more posters, 1000’s. And how much time has been spent on policy, policing, reprimanding, the kline bottle etc, man years. And what was/is the point(hope) of all that, to attract people who will tell you you are full of shit or that will agree with you and tell you how wonderful you are? For posterity? We’ve heard that many times but how many people do think come here or will ever come here and dig through our shit looking for gold no matter how clean the bathroom is. It is deluded to think that anything anyone one does here matters outside of here but it is just as deluded to believe that no one thinks that.

If you think regulars around here are hoping to achieve anything more significant than the pleasure of conversation, you’re deluded. I don’t know how such an obvious delusion managed to land in your head. Too much caffeine, perhaps?

Then why all the fuss and hand-wringing. It’s clear from the posting here but deluded people don’t see their delusions as they are normal to them. So how do I know I’m not deluded on this, because I was knocked out of it by reality, couldn’t get back in, and ended up on the outside looking in.

The fuss and bother arrive at times because that’s how people sometimes interact with each other, especially when sensitive topics are as frequently discussed as they are here.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.” –Mark Twain

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
Total Posts:  324
Joined  07-02-2017
 
 
 
16 December 2018 11:03
 
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:36 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

I resemble that remark. But actually wouldn’t mind spending more time in Canada if it weren’t so damn cold. I’ve been to Canada on 4 occasions and enjoyed the converstions I’ve had with Canadians but I wonder how they generally view Americans now since we’ve elected Trump. Hopefully they don’t paint all of us with that same broad brush.

 

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  17531
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
16 December 2018 11:13
 
proximacentauri - 16 December 2018 11:03 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:36 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

I resemble that remark. But actually wouldn’t mind spending more time in Canada if it weren’t so damn cold. I’ve been to Canada on 4 occasions and enjoyed the converstions I’ve had with Canadians but I wonder how they generally view Americans now since we’ve elected Trump. Hopefully they don’t paint all of us with that same broad brush.

If LadyJane is representative then it doesn’t look good for us. But in general (at least from the Canadian’s who post here) they appear very much into identity politics and see white male Americans as repressive all that is good in the world, which is everyone that isn’t white, male, gay or American.   

 

 
 
GAD
 
Avatar
 
 
GAD
Total Posts:  17531
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
16 December 2018 11:15
 
nonverbal - 16 December 2018 10:50 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:09 AM
nonverbal - 16 December 2018 08:15 AM
GAD - 15 December 2018 08:31 PM

How long has this site been running 15 years? How many people in that time posted more then 50 posts, 250 or so and how many have posted more then 500, like 50. yet how many posts were spent talking about how attract more posters, 1000’s. And how much time has been spent on policy, policing, reprimanding, the kline bottle etc, man years. And what was/is the point(hope) of all that, to attract people who will tell you you are full of shit or that will agree with you and tell you how wonderful you are? For posterity? We’ve heard that many times but how many people do think come here or will ever come here and dig through our shit looking for gold no matter how clean the bathroom is. It is deluded to think that anything anyone one does here matters outside of here but it is just as deluded to believe that no one thinks that.

If you think regulars around here are hoping to achieve anything more significant than the pleasure of conversation, you’re deluded. I don’t know how such an obvious delusion managed to land in your head. Too much caffeine, perhaps?

Then why all the fuss and hand-wringing. It’s clear from the posting here but deluded people don’t see their delusions as they are normal to them. So how do I know I’m not deluded on this, because I was knocked out of it by reality, couldn’t get back in, and ended up on the outside looking in.

The fuss and bother arrive at times because that’s how people sometimes interact with each other, especially when sensitive topics are as frequently discussed as they are here.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.” –Mark Twain

It’s like Mark Twain was right here with me.

 
 
proximacentauri
 
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proximacentauri
Total Posts:  324
Joined  07-02-2017
 
 
 
16 December 2018 11:51
 
GAD - 16 December 2018 11:13 AM
proximacentauri - 16 December 2018 11:03 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:36 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

I resemble that remark. But actually wouldn’t mind spending more time in Canada if it weren’t so damn cold. I’ve been to Canada on 4 occasions and enjoyed the converstions I’ve had with Canadians but I wonder how they generally view Americans now since we’ve elected Trump. Hopefully they don’t paint all of us with that same broad brush.

If LadyJane is representative then it doesn’t look good for us. But in general (at least from the Canadian’s who post here) they appear very much into identity politics and see white male Americans as repressive all that is good in the world, which is everyone that isn’t white, male, gay or American.   

 


Well, I don’t drive a big truck, play with guns, and don’t feel threatened by homosexuals. So I’ve got that going for me.

 

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  3292
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
16 December 2018 12:03
 

I can’t be held responsible for the way others rewrite my perspective.  Just like everyone else.

When the regime of any country is acting in a way that doesn’t reflect the will of its citizens and uphold the institutions that represent them around the world I consider the people victims of corruption.  When people in positions of power abuse their power for personal gain I expect the citizens to refrain from being complicit in the corruption and relieve them of their positions.

We can’t be both myopic and worldly when we’re only worldly in our myopias.  That caves in on itself every time.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  17531
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
16 December 2018 12:28
 
proximacentauri - 16 December 2018 11:51 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 11:13 AM
proximacentauri - 16 December 2018 11:03 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:36 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

I resemble that remark. But actually wouldn’t mind spending more time in Canada if it weren’t so damn cold. I’ve been to Canada on 4 occasions and enjoyed the converstions I’ve had with Canadians but I wonder how they generally view Americans now since we’ve elected Trump. Hopefully they don’t paint all of us with that same broad brush.

If LadyJane is representative then it doesn’t look good for us. But in general (at least from the Canadian’s who post here) they appear very much into identity politics and see white male Americans as repressive all that is good in the world, which is everyone that isn’t white, male, gay or American.   

 


Well, I don’t drive a big truck, play with guns, and don’t feel threatened by homosexuals. So I’ve got that going for me.

Same here, but if you aren’t hating and attacking white American males then you are part of the problem and an enabler.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  17531
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
16 December 2018 12:31
 
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 12:03 PM

I can’t be held responsible for the way others rewrite my perspective.  Just like everyone else.

When the regime of any country is acting in a way that doesn’t reflect the will of its citizens and uphold the institutions that represent them around the world I consider the people victims of corruption.  When people in positions of power abuse their power for personal gain I expect the citizens to refrain from being complicit in the corruption and relieve them of their positions.

We can’t be both myopic and worldly when we’re only worldly in our myopias.  That caves in on itself every time.

We voted for everything we have, you just don’t like what we voted for and try and move the goalpost to where you it suits your agenda.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
Total Posts:  6373
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
16 December 2018 12:49
 

Intrapersonal reflection is a story within a story.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  3292
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
16 December 2018 14:11
 

I think part of cooperating within a community requires being cognizant enough to reflect on responses, see them for what they are, appreciate what happens next and manage our emotions before leaping onto the next thing.  Assuming people “get it” or not seems to come laden with its own set of questionable assumptions.  Is it possible to know fer sure what people “get?” 

When there is a pattern of tsk tsk tsking there must be a corresponding feeling of rightness.  Which suggests a deluded sense of self righteousness by those who wag their finger.  This condescending approach doesn’t usually engender respect from fellow forum patrons.  And I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for anyone to bend the knee.

 
 
Jb8989
 
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Jb8989
Total Posts:  6373
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
16 December 2018 16:18
 
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 02:11 PM

Is it possible to know fer sure what people “get?”

I think so.

LadyJane - 16 December 2018 02:11 PM

When there is a pattern of tsk tsk tsking there must be a corresponding feeling of rightness.  Which suggests a deluded sense of self righteousness by those who wag their finger.  This condescending approach doesn’t usually engender respect from fellow forum patrons.  And I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for anyone to bend the knee.

Do you feel like there’s a significant amount of condescension around here?

 
 
Jefe
 
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Jefe
Total Posts:  7079
Joined  15-02-2007
 
 
 
16 December 2018 16:31
 
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:36 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 10:31 AM
GAD - 16 December 2018 10:17 AM
LadyJane - 16 December 2018 06:21 AM

A lot of people post steadily and a lot of people get edged out of conversations.  Steadily.  There are a lot of assumptions about intentions and many impressions stemming from misunderstandings.  Formed and never straightened out.  Take a moment to consider what you really know compared to what you think you know but never ask.  And whether not talking about something is tantamount to not knowing about something.  Silence isn’t necessarily ignorance.  I don’t think anyone has the monopoly on feeling like an outsider at this forum.  You can hear the sentiment everywhere including from those you’d least expect.  (Nothing a few thousand more posts can’t cure, eh?)

We are all responsible for our behaviour at this forum.  That’s not quite how it works though, does it?  The non stop posters run the show while the rest patiently wait for a turn that never comes.  Those wanting the centre of attention tend to get it as the rest fade into the background like furniture.  This compels people to settle into, what can only be described as, self appointed roles and play them to the hilt.  And then feel threatened when others chime in.  As if those who share similar attributes take something away from them.  When you think your individual happiness should come at the expense of ten others I think that’s a problem.  And it shouldn’t become everyone’s problem.

So now we can add another victim to the ever growing saviors list of victims that need to be saved, the underrepresented poster. Affirmative posting? Posting quotas? A point system based on identity postics?

You’re absolutely white.

And American, so evil squared.

American White Straight Male.
The source of all evils.

 
 
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