1 2 3 >  Last ›
 
   
 

The necessary evil of racial identity politics for whites

 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 09:07
 

Identity politics is often denounced for good reason. Sam Harris denounces it. He has especially denounced white nationalism. I have conflicting beliefs on the matter, for two reasons.

(1) On one hand, identity politics corrupts rational thought, as it makes reason subordinate to personal identity. In a mentality of identity politics (us-vs-them mentality), the interests of one’s group are almost always supreme to de facto truth and good reasoning. Thus identitarian political camps including white nationalism are endless founts of absurd myths. Humans evolved to be both rational and tribal, but the tribal instinct mattered much more to survival and reproductive success.

(2) On the other hand, if a group without a political identity is hated by one or more groups each with a political identity, then the group without a political identity will be conquered, as they will not even put up a fight in their defense.

Situation #2 has been the status quo for the white race ever since the end of World War 2. A white identity has long been akin to Nazism. But, this has allowed other races to encourage hatred and conspiracism against the white race. The white race is blamed for the problems among all other races. If any race is poorer, under-educated, underemployed, or excessively at odds with the justice system, then who is to blame? By default, the white race is blamed. The racial disadvantages are probably rooted in genetic differences (both intelligence variations and criminal variations are each largely heritable at least within each race, races are plainly genetically different, and such differences in behavior exist all over the world and throughout time), but it doesn’t matter, because such thinking is racist, and whites at large are racist evil people, and the best non-racist option is that hidden racism among whites is causing all the racial inequalities. This is the thinking of Black Lives Matter, whose formal affirmation claims that “Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise” in a world of “deadly oppression.” This conspiracy theory is nurtured popularly among academic intellectuals, who call it, “Critical Race Theory.”

Whites are a majority in many nations, and that matters less than you may think, because a large subset of whites have allied themselves with the non-whites in opposing the white race. This is the liberal political party in any white-majority nation (i.e. the Democratic Party in America). White liberals tend to be more than happy to see whites remain politically defenseless against conspiratorial slander, even if white liberals themselves are included among the targets.

This pattern matters now and will matter much more when whites become a minority in the nations they founded, due to migratory colonization and excess non-white fertility. Even as a minority, whites will remain disproportionately rich and politically powerful, but this will probably be not enough to stop the violence of the majority of anti-white mobs and voting blocks who will be aided and abetted by white liberals. The non-white races will each have a popular positive political identity, and whites won’t. Whites will be defenseless against the increasingly zealous anti-white mobs and voting blocks. They can not effectively defend themselves merely as a scattered mass of individuals. They must defend themselves as an organized group.

Anyone can make any kind of improbable prediction they like, but the key predictions are already bearing fruit in South Africa, where the black-majority national government is seizing property owned by whites to give to blacks. This move is explicitly driven by the belief that the white race continues to systemically oppress the black race. Blacks are richer within South Africa than within any other African nation, but such facts don’t matter to them. Identity politics and ideology matters to them.

To be sure, the world would be much better without the existence of identity politics. The same is true for guns. The world would be much better off without guns. And, the first nation to dump all their guns in the ocean and to cut off alliances with armed nations will be the next nation conquered, enslaved and/or killed.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
Avatar
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
Total Posts:  6578
Joined  08-12-2006
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:09
 

RACIST!

Just kidding. That said, I’m not sure fighting identity politics with more identity politics is necessarily the solution. Keep in mind that contemporary identity politics isn’t, for the most part, a “grass roots” phenomenon, but rather a calculated mechanism of control by our self-serving leaders. You can hear Ezra Klein and David French talk about this on a recent Klein podcast.

Our fight shouldn’t be against our fellow citizens, but against the two political parties that benefit by turning us against each other.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:16
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 06 January 2019 10:09 AM

RACIST!

Just kidding. That said, I’m not sure fighting identity politics with more identity politics is necessarily the solution. Keep in mind that contemporary identity politics isn’t, for the most part, a “grass roots” phenomenon, but rather a calculated mechanism of control by our self-serving leaders. You can hear Ezra Klein and David French talk about this on a recent Klein podcast.

Our fight shouldn’t be against our fellow citizens, but against the two political parties that benefit by turning us against each other.

I have much more of a bottom-up perspective of identity politics in democratic republican nations. The leaders merely carry out popular will. If identity politics was a top-down phenomenon, then it would be much easier to correct without encouraging white nationalism.

 
nonverbal
 
Avatar
 
 
nonverbal
Total Posts:  1549
Joined  31-10-2015
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:19
 
Abel Dean - 06 January 2019 09:07 AM

Identity politics is often denounced for good reason. Sam Harris denounces it. He has especially denounced white nationalism. I have conflicting beliefs on the matter, for two reasons.

(1) On one hand, identity politics corrupts rational thought, as it makes reason subordinate to personal identity. In a mentality of identity politics (us-vs-them mentality), the interests of one’s group are almost always supreme to de facto truth and good reasoning. Thus identitarian political camps including white nationalism are endless founts of absurd myths. Humans evolved to be both rational and tribal, but the tribal instinct mattered much more to survival and reproductive success.

(2) On the other hand, if a group without a political identity is hated by one or more groups each with a political identity, then the group without a political identity will be conquered, as they will not even put up a fight in their defense.

Situation #2 has been the status quo for the white race ever since the end of World War 2. A white identity has long been akin to Nazism. But, this has allowed other races to encourage hatred and conspiracism against the white race. The white race is blamed for the problems among all other races. If any race is poorer, under-educated, underemployed, or excessively at odds with the justice system, then who is to blame? By default, the white race is blamed. The racial disadvantages are probably rooted in genetic differences (both intelligence variations and criminal variations are each largely heritable at least within each race, races are plainly genetically different, and such differences in behavior exist all over the world and throughout time), but it doesn’t matter, because such thinking is racist, and whites at large are racist evil people, and the best non-racist option is that hidden racism among whites is causing all the racial inequalities. This is the thinking of Black Lives Matter, whose formal affirmation claims that “Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise” in a world of “deadly oppression.” This conspiracy theory is nurtured popularly among academic intellectuals, who call it, “Critical Race Theory.”

Whites are a majority in many nations, and that matters less than you may think, because a large subset of whites have allied themselves with the non-whites in opposing the white race. This is the liberal political party in any white-majority nation (i.e. the Democratic Party in America). White liberals tend to be more than happy to see whites remain politically defenseless against conspiratorial slander, even if white liberals themselves are included among the targets.

This pattern matters now and will matter much more when whites become a minority in the nations they founded, due to migratory colonization and excess non-white fertility. Even as a minority, whites will remain disproportionately rich and politically powerful, but this will probably be not enough to stop the violence of the majority of anti-white mobs and voting blocks who will be aided and abetted by white liberals. The non-white races will each have a popular positive political identity, and whites won’t. Whites will be defenseless against the increasingly zealous anti-white mobs and voting blocks. They can not effectively defend themselves merely as a scattered mass of individuals. They must defend themselves as an organized group.

Anyone can make any kind of improbable prediction they like, but the key predictions are already bearing fruit in South Africa, where the black-majority national government is seizing property owned by whites to give to blacks. This move is explicitly driven by the belief that the white race continues to systemically oppress the black race. Blacks are richer within South Africa than within any other African nation, but such facts don’t matter to them. Identity politics and ideology matters to them.

To be sure, the world would be much better without the existence of identity politics. The same is true for guns. The world would be much better off without guns. And, the first nation to dump all their guns in the ocean and to cut off alliances with armed nations will be the next nation conquered, enslaved and/or killed.

This sounds like a circuitous way of saying that at some future point, people will all look more or less alike, ethnically speaking. How nice that’ll be yet you make it sound so evil.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:27
 
nonverbal - 06 January 2019 10:19 AM

This sounds like a circuitous way of saying that at some future point, people will all look more or less alike, ethnically speaking. How nice that’ll be yet you make it sound so evil.

No, but I will address your point. Homogenizing through racial interbreeding seems to be a solution to the problem popular among intellectuals, but it seems to be merely a hope, not a likely prediction, as the rate of racial interbreeding remains low, and the sociological science simply has not been done because of the ideological delusions entrenched in the field. That, and interbreeding produces a spectrum, not a homogeneity. If any nation would bear out the prediction, it would be Brazil, as the rate of racial interbreeding has long been high, but a heated racial division persists between the two ends of the white-to-nonwhite continuum.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
Avatar
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
Total Posts:  6578
Joined  08-12-2006
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:45
 
Abel Dean - 06 January 2019 10:16 AM

The leaders merely carry out popular will. If identity politics was a top-down phenomenon, then it would be much easier to correct without encouraging white nationalism.

That seems like a naive view to me. Consider the definition of politics offered by satirist Ambrose Bierce: “A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.” Popular will? Ha ha, Pollyanna.

Check out the podcast. Klein is editor-at-large of Vox. French is a Senior Fellow at the National Review Institute. Despite the political chasm between them, they’re largely in agreement on this.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 10:53
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 06 January 2019 10:45 AM
Abel Dean - 06 January 2019 10:16 AM

The leaders merely carry out popular will. If identity politics was a top-down phenomenon, then it would be much easier to correct without encouraging white nationalism.

That seems like a naive view to me. Consider the definition of politics offered by satirist Ambrose Bierce: “A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.” Popular will? Ha ha, Pollyanna.

Check out the podcast. Klein is editor-at-large of Vox. French is a Senior Fellow at the National Review Institute. Despite the political chasm between them, they’re largely in agreement on this.

The belief in excess top-down influence over societies follows easily from both the authoritarian and anti-authoritarian perspectives, but it isn’t likely. Whenever leaders of democratic nations propose policies at odds with their voting constituents at large, they visibly pay a price. If, alternatively, a secret means of top-down control is proposed, then it lacks a plausible mechanism.

 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15549
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
06 January 2019 11:53
 

Lete’s see: we have a guy here arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that (in a different thread) a good solution is that they be genetically modified (perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?), that an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture, that there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color (not a concept accepted in biology), and to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics.

Have we not heard this somewhere before?

 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 12:02
 
burt - 06 January 2019 11:53 AM

Lete’s see: we have a guy here arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that (in a different thread) a good solution is that they be genetically modified (perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?), that an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture, that there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color (not a concept accepted in biology), and to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics.

Have we not heard this somewhere before?

I will make a list. I will embolden the items that accurately reflect what I believe and italicize the items that plainly don’t. I am crossing many lines of taboo, but I kindly ask that you do not shove me into a crude caricature of a white supremacist or whatever. Instead, pay direct attention to what I write.

blacks are less intelligent than whites
a good solution is that they be genetically modified
(perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?)
an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture
there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color
to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people
we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics

[ Edited: 06 January 2019 12:09 by Abel Dean]
 
GAD
 
Avatar
 
 
GAD
Total Posts:  17329
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
06 January 2019 12:50
 
burt - 06 January 2019 11:53 AM

Lete’s see: we have a guy here arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that (in a different thread) a good solution is that they be genetically modified (perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?), that an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture, that there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color (not a concept accepted in biology), and to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics.

Have we not heard this somewhere before?

But I give him props for his salesmanship.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 12:53
 
GAD - 06 January 2019 12:50 PM
burt - 06 January 2019 11:53 AM

Lete’s see: we have a guy here arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that (in a different thread) a good solution is that they be genetically modified (perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?), that an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture, that there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color (not a concept accepted in biology), and to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics.

Have we not heard this somewhere before?

But I give him props for his salesmanship.

The list is for you, too.

 
Cheshire Cat
 
Avatar
 
 
Cheshire Cat
Total Posts:  1182
Joined  01-11-2014
 
 
 
06 January 2019 13:17
 

I’ve heard and read similar statements as this OP before:

The White Race are now the true victims in our society.
European culture along with it’s Christian values are being threatened.
Dark-skinned people don’t want to assimilate the American culture, but instead want to establish their previous national identities here.

This are the main themes of the Alt-Right.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 13:29
 
Cheshire Cat - 06 January 2019 01:17 PM

I’ve heard and read similar statements as this OP before:

The White Race are now the true victims in our society.
European culture along with it’s Christian values are being threatened.
Dark-skinned people don’t want to assimilate the American culture, but instead want to establish their previous national identities here.

This are the main themes of the Alt-Right.

The Alt Right gets some things right and other things wrong. Their ideology is a fountain of absurd myth. They have blood-libelous conspiracy theories against Jews. They are wrong that the white race is currently a class of victims in American society, but they seem to be correct that the white race is on course to be a class of victims, and they are correct that this is already happening in South Africa. I don’t care so much about the European culture, far less about their Christian values, but the survival of the white race is important to me, as my descendants will be mostly members of it. If non-white races established their ancestral national identities within white nations WITHOUT excess hostility against whites, then I would be OK with that. As it stands, the excess hostility against the white race is both common and commonly accepted among non-whites within white nations. This is not the way it should be, but it is an obvious reality, and the fear of racism is no excuse for ignoring it.

 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15549
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
06 January 2019 19:17
 
Abel Dean - 06 January 2019 12:02 PM
burt - 06 January 2019 11:53 AM

Lete’s see: we have a guy here arguing that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that (in a different thread) a good solution is that they be genetically modified (perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?), that an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture, that there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color (not a concept accepted in biology), and to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics.

Have we not heard this somewhere before?

I will make a list. I will embolden the items that accurately reflect what I believe and italicize the items that plainly don’t. I am crossing many lines of taboo, but I kindly ask that you do not shove me into a crude caricature of a white supremacist or whatever. Instead, pay direct attention to what I write.

blacks are less intelligent than whites
a good solution is that they be genetically modified
(perhaps modify so they have white skin and blond hair?)
an egalitarian society would debase the superior white culture
there are in fact biologically determined races based on skin color
to avoid the overwhelming of white purity by the brown mud people
we need to resort to the “necessary evil” of white identity politics

And I can tell you that all of your beliefs are incorrect, regardless of how you try to dress them up.

 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15549
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
06 January 2019 19:20
 
Abel Dean - 06 January 2019 01:29 PM
Cheshire Cat - 06 January 2019 01:17 PM

I’ve heard and read similar statements as this OP before:

The White Race are now the true victims in our society.
European culture along with it’s Christian values are being threatened.
Dark-skinned people don’t want to assimilate the American culture, but instead want to establish their previous national identities here.

This are the main themes of the Alt-Right.

The Alt Right gets some things right and other things wrong. Their ideology is a fountain of absurd myth. They have blood-libelous conspiracy theories against Jews. They are wrong that the white race is currently a class of victims in American society, but they seem to be correct that the white race is on course to be a class of victims, and they are correct that this is already happening in South Africa. I don’t care so much about the European culture, far less about their Christian values, but the survival of the white race is important to me, as my descendants will be mostly members of it. If non-white races established their ancestral national identities within white nations WITHOUT excess hostility against whites, then I would be OK with that. As it stands, the excess hostility against the white race is both common and commonly accepted among non-whites within white nations. This is not the way it should be, but it is an obvious reality, and the fear of racism is no excuse for ignoring it.

I suggest a reading of the book Shikasta.

Personally, I say that there no black or white race, only the human race. And I notice that you don’t say anything about Asians.

 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  350
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
06 January 2019 19:22
 
burt - 06 January 2019 07:17 PM

And I can tell you that all of your beliefs are incorrect, regardless of how you try to dress them up.

I welcome you disagreeing with what I believe. I do not welcome you misrepresenting what I believe.

 
 1 2 3 >  Last ›