Election Meddling

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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27 January 2019 18:01
 

Here we go again, this time in Venezuela, where “The right-wing opposition leader that the United States is trying to undemocratically install as Venezuela’s president immediately [has] set his sights on the country’s state-owned oil company.” It’s looking like Ukraine all over again. In both cases, the existing regime is/was corrupt, to be sure. But our meddling in Ukraine led directly to civil war. All for the sake of sticking it to Putin and the Russians. Now, in Venezuela, it’s for the sake of our oil companies, so they can pillage Venezuela’s oil reserves, which are reportedly the largest in the world.

How can our media and our politicians and our citizens scream bloody murder about Russian “meddling” (which amounted to nothing more than publishing phony news stories aimed at riling up gullible morons), yet remain silent when the US actively plays kingmaker and incites civil war in other countries? Trump finally does something worth getting hysterical over (in Venezuela) and nobody blinks an eye. But when he wants to waste one tenth of one percent of the federal budget on a border wall, you’d think it was the end of the fucking world.

Venezuela’s US-Backed Coup Leader Immediately Targets State Oil Company and Requests IMF Money

 
 
mapadofu
 
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mapadofu
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28 January 2019 06:22
 

Gloss over the role Russia played in Ukraine much?

I don’t see that there is much similarity between the two cases.

[ Edited: 28 January 2019 07:06 by mapadofu]
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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28 January 2019 09:06
 
mapadofu - 28 January 2019 06:22 AM

Gloss over the role Russia played in Ukraine much?

I don’t see that there is much similarity between the two cases.

Before we got our corrupt bastard installed in Ukraine, Russia had their corrupt bastard installed. After we ousted their corrupt bastard and installed our corrupt bastard, Russia responded predictably by safeguarding their interests against NATO encroachment. Which was the whole point: provoke Russia into responding predictably, then use that as a pretext for waging war by proxy or even outright war.

To his credit, and to the disappointment of the Neocons and Liberal Hawks, Obama refused to get dragged into the Ukrainian civil war—his finest moment, in my opinion.

The similarities are obvious: meddle in other counties’ political affairs under the guise of promoting democracy in order to advance the interests of our military-industrial complex and our oil corporations.

Did you ever ask your financial advisor how T-bill yields can differentiate between a federal spending problem and a revenue problem?

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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28 January 2019 09:08
 

We are still trying to be the world’s policeman.  There is a big difference between being engaged in the world and meddling.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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28 January 2019 09:17
 
EN - 28 January 2019 09:08 AM

We are still trying to be the world’s policeman.  There is a big difference between being engaged in the world and meddling.

Which is why we couch our meddling under the guise of being engaged.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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28 January 2019 09:30
 
Antisocialdarwinist - 28 January 2019 09:17 AM
EN - 28 January 2019 09:08 AM

We are still trying to be the world’s policeman.  There is a big difference between being engaged in the world and meddling.

Which is why we couch our meddling under the guise of being engaged.

Living up to our ideals always seems to be a problem.

 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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28 January 2019 10:33
 
EN - 28 January 2019 09:30 AM
Antisocialdarwinist - 28 January 2019 09:17 AM
EN - 28 January 2019 09:08 AM

We are still trying to be the world’s policeman.  There is a big difference between being engaged in the world and meddling.

Which is why we couch our meddling under the guise of being engaged.

Living up to our ideals always seems to be a problem.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions? The Russian meddlers could make a similar argument, that the world is a safer place when the US and Russia are on friendlier terms. Therefore, meddling on behalf of the candidate with a less antagonistic policy towards Russia amounts to “being engaged” with an eye toward the ideal of making the world a safer place.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
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28 January 2019 13:24
 

Chavez reinvigorated OPEC so they could rely on a set price and quota on the production of oil.  This allowed the Venezuelan nationalized state run oil company to subsidize his entire socio-economic plan.  This left the Capitalist Pigdogs (Ptew!) none too pleased.  Since the defanging of OPEC, a terrible successor in Maduro, and wildly fluctuating prices per barrel, the people of Venezuela have lost the benefits of that socio-economic plan.  If the IMF funds a new plan now, to privatize the oil reserves, the Venezuelan people lose their stake and that national resource is ripped out from beneath their feet.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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28 January 2019 19:06
 
LadyJane - 28 January 2019 01:24 PM

Chavez reinvigorated OPEC so they could rely on a set price and quota on the production of oil.  This allowed the Venezuelan nationalized state run oil company to subsidize his entire socio-economic plan.  This left the Capitalist Pigdogs (Ptew!) none too pleased.  Since the defanging of OPEC, a terrible successor in Maduro, and wildly fluctuating prices per barrel, the people of Venezuela have lost the benefits of that socio-economic plan.  If the IMF funds a new plan now, to privatize the oil reserves, the Venezuelan people lose their stake and that national resource is ripped out from beneath their feet.

The irony is that every time we embark on another policy of “engagement,” it always comes back to bite us in the ass when the people getting screwed the worst realize we’re the ones screwing them.

Here’s an article from 2014 that describes US meddling in Venezuela back then: The Dirty Hand of the National Endowment for Democracy in Venezuela

Written in 2014 during the Obama adminstration, this article by Eva Golinger gives insightful background to the current crisis in Venezuela and Washington’s role in stirring it up.

. . .

At the beginning of 2011, after being publicly exposed for its grave violations of Venezuelan law and sovereignty, the OTI closed its doors in Venezuela and USAID operations were transferred to its offices in the U.S.. The flow of money to anti-government groups didn’t stop, despite the enactment by Venezuela’s National Assembly of the Law of Political Sovereignty and National Self-Determination at the end of 2010, which outright prohibits foreign funding of political groups in the country. U.S. agencies and the Venezuelan groups that receive their money continue to violate the law with impunity. In the Obama Administration’s Foreign Operations Budgets, between $5-6 million have been included to fund opposition groups in Venezuela through USAID since 2012.

 

 
 
Quadrewple
 
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Quadrewple
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01 February 2019 15:01
 

Good thread
@Antisocialdarwinist

The reality is, an institution with near limitless power always becomes its own incentive structure, and seeks its own advantage.  It is reliably advantage-seekers which seek to operate at the helm of such an institution.

Every government gets away with whatever it has the power to get away with.  If that expands to “foreign influence” (a euphemism for political/economic destabilization and/or opportunistic molding of the situation in reaction to their influence), that’s what they’ll do.

Anyone complaining about “foreign meddling” has been in denial about the level of corruption that takes place behind closed doors.  The US is the biggest foreign meddler in the world.  That doesn’t mean it’s okay with me if other countries attempt to influence things here, but that’s the gamble we’re all taking when it comes to a centralized monopolistic incentive structure and weapon of power. 

Your enemy can use your own weapon against you….this should be obvious to people.  Further still, if we assume that “Russia meddled” (which is a fuzzy phrase), the US government and all its international attachments have the most reach of any country.  The degree of international attachment is ultimately the degree of corruption within the government (if we include arrangements which are beneficial for governments and foreign entities but not the citizens back home).  What other metric does anyone have to measure corruption?  The only other one I can think of is lack of directness - how many times does money change hands before getting the stated intended source?  How far does that money travel and under what level of scrutiny?

For some reason no one talks about this!


I’ve washed my hands of the nation state as an experiment.  I don’t know what else it’s going to take people to do the same.  Everything has to decentralize and we have to start from scratch.  Anyone who is not “earning their keep” is going to suffer for a generation or two, whether they deserve to or not.  The only other option of government expansion has the exact same result, only with a permanent state of suffering for the weak, which is the 99.99%, under pure totalitarianism.

At the end of the day, my concerns as a human lie with my immediate environment, first and foremost.  320 million people is too big a concept for me to care about fundamentally.  Anyone can talk, but most people just talk politics - they don’t actually care enough to do anything about what they’re complaining about.  It’s like people feel obligated to keep up the charade, no matter how ridiculous the situation becomes, and how obviously dire it is.

[ Edited: 01 February 2019 15:17 by Quadrewple]
 
 
LadyJane
 
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04 February 2019 10:13
 

The newly appointed American Envoy is none other than Elliott Abrams.

This is the same individual who worked with Reagan and Bush Senior in the glory days of Central and South American fuckery.  The same individual responsible for supplying military and financial aid in an effort to overthrow the governments of Guatemala, Nicaragua and El Salvador then proceeded to lie to congress and cover up the torture and slaughtering of civilians.  Not exactly what you expect from someone holding the title of Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs but anyway.  Then, to skirt the ban on funding the Contras directly, he solicited ten million dollars from the Sultan of Brunei for a quid pro quo.  (One of which we have only one side of the story to this day.)  Enter “American Hero” take-one-for-the-team Oliver North who inadvertently thwarted the mission by placing the money in the wrong account.  Abrams was ultimately pardoned by Bush Senior for the Iran Contra affair then reappointed by Bush Junior in 2001 and was immediately implicated in an attempted coup d’etat in Venezuela in 2002.

I guess the current administration is giving him another shot.

 
 
LadyJane
 
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05 February 2019 05:43
 

It’s interesting that every time the United States does this it comes back to bite them in the arse.  They entered Afghanistan to fuck with the Soviets and a decade and a half later the Twin Towers come tumbling down.  The Soviets went into Central America to fuck with the Americans already fucking around there and a decade and a half later the Americans receive an influx of Central American refugees.  They end up deporting the worst criminals, only after learning gang warfare in the streets of Los Angeles, which further destabilizes the region and a decade and a half after that are once again inundated with refugees at the border.  Talk about turning the Munroe Doctrine into Murphy’s Law.

 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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05 February 2019 18:05
 

More from Consortiumnews: In Venezuela, US Forgets What Century It Is by Patrick Lawrence.

For one thing, the long era of U.S.-cultivated coups— “regime changes” for those who cannot quite face this aspect of America’s conduct abroad—is over. First in Ukraine and a year later in Syria, Moscow has put Washington on notice: Destabilizing other nations in gross violation of international law will no longer go unopposed. One way or another, this will again prove true in Venezuela.

And here’s a video that someone linked in the comments section of the article: The REAL Reason The U.S. Wants Regime Change in Venezuela

It’s not hard to guess the REAL reason, but this is still a good video. (LJ, you’re absolutely right about Abrams.) The irony and the hypocrisy are hard to believe. There’s also a very funny clip (at about the 4:15 mark) of Donald Trump in a 2012 interview explaining what his Middle East foreign policy would be:

Interviewer (aghast, after Trump lays out his proposed policy): “How do you think that would affect the Arab nations?”

DT: “Who cares?”

 

 
 
LadyJane
 
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06 February 2019 06:11
 

The steadfast Venezuelan people are responding to the corpulent swine.  “Yanquis, manos fuera de nuestro aceite!”