< 1 2 3 4 > 
 
   
 

IQ tests are not culturally biased

 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  427
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
14 February 2019 12:40
 
icehorse - 14 February 2019 12:27 PM
Abel Dean - 14 February 2019 12:19 PM
icehorse - 14 February 2019 11:54 AM
Abel Dean - 14 February 2019 11:51 AM

Then I think we are on the same page.

I have not yet read any conclusions from you that I agree with.

That’s OK. The topic of this thread is narrow: the proposed racial bias of IQ tests. If it is claimed that racial intelligence differences follow from environmental causes of some sort, then that is not the same as claiming that IQ tests are racially biased. The “environmentalist” hypothesis would be a different topic of disagreement, and it is much more complex. It is a position held by at least a minority of intelligence researchers, and it is a respectable position. Almost none of them think that IQ tests are racially biased. That is not a respectable position, though it is widely popular everywhere else.

I would summarize my stance as being: IQ tests are environmentally biased. Until that problem is solved, I don’t think other conclusions can really be drawn.

OK, if you like.

 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  427
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
15 February 2019 13:51
 

In 1980, before he discovered the Flynn effect, the intelligence researcher James Flynn wrote a book titled, Race, IQ and Jensen. It is a book written to strike down the racial hereditarian theory of Arthur Jensen. But, first, in Chapter 2, Flynn strikes down many of the bad arguments popular among Flynn’s many ineffective allies, yielding those arguments to Jensen. The first such argument was the claimed cultural bias of IQ tests. Flynn wrote:

1 Hypothesis: The IQ gap is an artifact of the tests themselves. Jensen: This contention is usually supported by a number of arguments, ranging from the claim that the content of the tests is culturally biased through the assertions that blacks would be better if the tests were written in ghetto dialect and administered by blacks. The latter have simply been shown to be false: when the Stanford-Binet was translated into ghetto dialect, black children who took the revised test scored less than one point above the control group; the race of the examiner has little or no effect on performance. Shuey surveyed 2,360 black school children tested by blacks, compared them to whites, and found a difference of .3 of an IQ point. A review of thirty studies designed to detect the effect of the race of the examiner revealed mainly non-significant and negligible effects.

The claim that the tests are culturally biased is more complex, but now at last it can be rejected on the basis of overwhelming evidence. There are culturally loaded items on IQ tests, items referring to exatic animals, fairy tales and musical instruments, and blacks do worse on them than whites. But they do worse still on the items least culturally loaded, for example, the Block Design subset of the Wechsler. The gap between black and white is more a function of an item’s complexity than of its rarity or culture-loading and this is true whether the item involves verbal, numerical or spacial content. The fact that a test is culturally loaded does not necessarily mean that it is culturally biased. The Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test is highly culturally loaded, and yet the rank-order of item-difficulty is the same for black and white; if the test were biased, surely some items would reflect this fact to a greater degree than others! Indeed, item-analysis of a whole range of IQ tests confirms that the same items prove more difficult for both white and black and moreover, than even the degree of difficulty is much the same. That is, although blacks get a lower average score overall, the percentages of those getting the various items correct bear the same ratios to one another for both black and white. We do find minor race X item interactions but actually, these allow us to offer the most devastating possible refutation of the cultural bias hypothesis. We can simulate the racial differences merely by dividing the population of white children into two groups, each group entirely composed of white children and differing from one another merely in terms of age (an average difference of about two years). Certainly this implies that the only ‘bias’ of the tests is that they test for mental maturity.

Despite many attempts, no one has been able to devise a mental test which can both eliminate the gap between the races and meet the basic criteria necessary to validate a test. These are that the test include items of reasonable complexity and that it correlate with things like educational and occupational success.

 
icehorse
 
Avatar
 
 
icehorse
Total Posts:  7654
Joined  22-02-2014
 
 
 
15 February 2019 14:04
 

none of which addresses my point which I’ll call it the “poverty bias” (maybe there’s a more universal name for it)?

If you’re lucky enough to go to a good school, they will teach you how to think. If you have been taught how to think, you will do better on ALL standardized tests than people who have not been taught to think.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  427
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
15 February 2019 14:18
 
icehorse - 15 February 2019 02:04 PM

none of which addresses my point which I’ll call it the “poverty bias” (maybe there’s a more universal name for it)?

If you’re lucky enough to go to a good school, they will teach you how to think. If you have been taught how to think, you will do better on ALL standardized tests than people who have not been taught to think.

I suggest not using the word, “bias,” qualified or not, as it is misleading. We don’t say that measuring tapes have any sort of bias against dwarfs, regardless of why any given dwarf is short. If some dwarfs are short because they were starved as children, then the tapes are still unbiased. A better word is “environmentalist.” James Flynn today favors an environmentalist theory of IQ differences that is popular among mainstream American conservatives: the black low average IQ is self-inflicted because they have a cultural hatred of school. It is not true, and it strikes me as even more racially insulting than the racial hereditarian hypothesis. But, nobody calls the hypothesis, “bias,” to my knowledge. It would not be the right word.

 
icehorse
 
Avatar
 
 
icehorse
Total Posts:  7654
Joined  22-02-2014
 
 
 
15 February 2019 14:36
 

how about the “poverty factor” or the “education factor” ?

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  427
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
15 February 2019 14:37
 
icehorse - 15 February 2019 02:36 PM

how about the “poverty factor” or the “education factor” ?

Yes, those would be accurate terms.

 
icehorse
 
Avatar
 
 
icehorse
Total Posts:  7654
Joined  22-02-2014
 
 
 
15 February 2019 14:41
 
Abel Dean - 15 February 2019 02:37 PM
icehorse - 15 February 2019 02:36 PM

how about the “poverty factor” or the “education factor” ?

Yes, those would be accurate terms.

Cool. So I would say that the poverty factor leads to huge differences in the quality of education kids get, and that kids that get a high quality education will do better on standardized tests (including IQ tests).

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15837
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
15 February 2019 16:23
 
icehorse - 15 February 2019 02:41 PM
Abel Dean - 15 February 2019 02:37 PM
icehorse - 15 February 2019 02:36 PM

how about the “poverty factor” or the “education factor” ?

Yes, those would be accurate terms.

Cool. So I would say that the poverty factor leads to huge differences in the quality of education kids get, and that kids that get a high quality education will do better on standardized tests (including IQ tests).

I’d say it’s more than just a poverty factor, it’s the total social environment. https://www.yesmagazine.org/people-power/my-white-friend-asked-me-on-facebook-to-explain-white-privilege-i-decided-to-be-honest-20170809?fbclid=IwAR3HAkAvIC6r74sfjsHT_B5Amx-74qgDMuKbQzDgRl6ioExTvnRHF0kGKbo

[ Edited: 15 February 2019 16:33 by burt]
 
Jb8989
 
Avatar
 
 
Jb8989
Total Posts:  6373
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
15 February 2019 19:33
 
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15837
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
15 February 2019 21:34
 
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

 
Jb8989
 
Avatar
 
 
Jb8989
Total Posts:  6373
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
16 February 2019 06:27
 
burt - 15 February 2019 09:34 PM
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

Pretty cool. Yeah I’m of the belief that intelligence is a subset of cognition which is a subset of perception, which also involves emotions, motivations, neuroses, attitudes etc. You can’t always High IQ yourself out of a shitty situation. That’s not how society works.

 
 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15837
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
16 February 2019 08:19
 
Jb8989 - 16 February 2019 06:27 AM
burt - 15 February 2019 09:34 PM
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

Pretty cool. Yeah I’m of the belief that intelligence is a subset of cognition which is a subset of perception, which also involves emotions, motivations, neuroses, attitudes etc. You can’t always High IQ yourself out of a shitty situation. That’s not how society works.

Sometimes high IQ gets one into a shitty situation. wink

 
Jb8989
 
Avatar
 
 
Jb8989
Total Posts:  6373
Joined  31-01-2012
 
 
 
16 February 2019 08:50
 
burt - 16 February 2019 08:19 AM
Jb8989 - 16 February 2019 06:27 AM
burt - 15 February 2019 09:34 PM
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

Pretty cool. Yeah I’m of the belief that intelligence is a subset of cognition which is a subset of perception, which also involves emotions, motivations, neuroses, attitudes etc. You can’t always High IQ yourself out of a shitty situation. That’s not how society works.

Sometimes high IQ gets one into a shitty situation. wink

That’s why I’ve been working on The Well Being of Handsome Individuals. It doesn’t really involve much effort at all.

 
 
Abel Dean
 
Avatar
 
 
Abel Dean
Total Posts:  427
Joined  03-11-2017
 
 
 
17 February 2019 12:37
 
burt - 15 February 2019 09:34 PM
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

The lead researcher orients herself toward “subtle cues.” But, probable explanations tend to be no so subtle. In this case, the obvious explanation was overlooked by both the Arse Technica article and the original article (linked below): the differential ideological biases between the two sets of teachers.

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/2/eaau4734

 
burt
 
Avatar
 
 
burt
Total Posts:  15837
Joined  17-12-2006
 
 
 
17 February 2019 13:05
 
Abel Dean - 17 February 2019 12:37 PM
burt - 15 February 2019 09:34 PM
Jb8989 - 15 February 2019 07:33 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 07:32 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 07:04 PM
Abel Dean - 13 February 2019 02:42 PM
Jb8989 - 13 February 2019 02:15 PM

If western society is culturally biased against minorities then the process of the IQ test would be biased regardless of whether the subject matter of it is. Further, the distinction between learning and testing seems like something we don’t know enough about.

Our expectations say one thing, and the numbers say another thing. The racial IQ gaps are no more and no less than we expect from from the racial gaps in educational success. If the whole society is racist and is depressing every metric and every correlate of intelligence among blacks, then the racist society is not merely depressing black scores but also black intelligence generally. If so, then it still means the scores accurately reflect racial intelligence differences. The claim that the IQ tests are racially biased would be the wrong claim to make.

I disagree. It means that your sample size is tainted.

I’m not talking about expectations as much as I am circumstances. Although if you’re raised expecting to go no further than high school and perform no educationally greater than mediocre, than you might be able to imagine how the psychology of expectations and how it affects intelligence and educational performances comes into play quite signicantly.

More generally I’m saying that racial intellectual inequality implies a biological predisposition. A predisposition that environment either bolsters or depresses significantly enough to reconsider whether a level playing field was ever level enough to create reliable data.

The distinction is relevant for that theory, too. Even if it is purely a matter of racial differences in social expectations that are causing the racial differences in every variable related to intelligence, then that still amounts to racial intelligence differences, and the IQ tests accurately reflect those differences. The problem is not unrepresentative samples or anything like that. The differences in scores emerge from representative samples. Supposing that we were to select only samples in which the social expectations were equal between whites and blacks, and suppose this produced equal IQ results between whites and blacks, then, great, maybe you just solved a big social problem, but you didn’t solve the problem of biased IQ tests. Instead, that would be imposing a bias. Supposing we were practical and we want to discover what the causes of the differences could be, whether it is differences in social expectations, genetics, or anything else, then the raw data needs to be representative. We would gather data not only on IQ but also social expectations. Then we would do a multivariate analysis. After controlling for social expectations, are IQs between the two groups equal? If so, then that would not be the end of it, but it would be a good start. The wrong approach would be to toss out the IQ data believing it is racially biased. It isn’t.

Rule number like three in research is that loaded variables defeat the purpose of cross referencing. That’s to say that intelligence is directly correlated with psychology, which is soft. Social expectations is code for causing motivation, which is impossible to conceptualize without relying heavily on environmental factors.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/huge-study-finds-professors-attitudes-affect-students-grades/

The lead researcher orients herself toward “subtle cues.” But, probable explanations tend to be no so subtle. In this case, the obvious explanation was overlooked by both the Arse Technica article and the original article (linked below): the differential ideological biases between the two sets of teachers.

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/2/eaau4734

Whatever, the point is that external factors influenced student achievement.

 
 < 1 2 3 4 >